38

Recently I asked How many new users does Stack Overflow get per day? According to the user's page, when sorted by creation date, there are roughly 100 pages per day (this is fairly accurate even back to 3 weeks time) - or roughly 3600 new registered users per day.

As far as a I can tell, this where the highest potential for misunderstanding the Stack Exchange software occurs. There are many guidelines for creating questions, but no hurdles aside from 45 characters of text, one tag name, and clicking post for new users.

This does not really allow them much opportunity to work with the system before jumping in to a venue which if done incorrectly requires community time to remedy. On smaller exchanges, this is a moot point because some of them only get a dozen questions per day. But on Stack Overflow, where there are 8 thousand questions per day, the circumstances are a little different.

Upon inspection of the newly created user list, questions like this appear:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/23277349/1026459
https://stackoverflow.com/q/23277617/1026459
https://stackoverflow.com/q/23268593/1026459
https://stackoverflow.com/q/23268686/1026459
https://stackoverflow.com/q/23268402/1026459
DocuSignAPI- Wet Signature Integration
https://stackoverflow.com/q/23268170/1026459

And answers like these:

https://stackoverflow.com/a/23268957/1026459
https://stackoverflow.com/users/3568648/rich-pickering (9 answers in 3 hours of being a user!)

While the majority of questions from these first day users tend to be 0 vote with no answer, negatively voted, or closed; the answers tend to be on topic, at times upvoted, and even some accepted.

My point in all of this is that perhaps it would benefit users if they were more familiar with the way asking questions worked before they posted them. And in order to accomplish that, a very small reputation barrier to asking questions could get them to be more accustomed to the site, or perhaps a small waiting time from when the account was first created.

While this will potentially limit a large amount of new questions from users, it will also allow them to search for duplicates faster as they cannot ask at first. Moreover, this will encourage them to have a positive interaction before posting a question.

The amount of users registering per day is only growing with time. I believe this is definitely a positive thing for Stack Overflow, and it also means there is an opportunity to screen for higher quality questions.

What effect would introducing a small barrier for new users to ask a question have on Stack Overflow? What could this barrier look like?

  • Perhaps in the form of a privilege at 5 reputation (posting answers would still be 1)
  • Perhaps require the user to have registered at the site for a short time period before being able to ask? (Seems like it could have less impact, other access unaffected)
25
  • 46
    Thinking out loud, I would worry this would lead to an increase of people using answers to ask questions, or hurriedly posting garbage answers to barely get enough rep to post their question. I would propose a short "quiz" people need to take before being able to do anything so they get the gist of the site, like "select the question that is off-topic for StackOverflow. Here is a link to the FAQ if you aren't sure." and make it pretty obvious, but enough so that we can tell they are paying attention. Sorta something like we do for the review queue.
    – vcsjones
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 20:48
  • 1
    @vcsjones - I agree that this could potentially lead to more off topic answers. However, those are a lot easier to deal with. For the most part the OP of a question is aware of a new answer posted and can flag it if it is inappropriate. Further, protected questions already have a 10 rep barrier so they would be unaffected by any potential garbage. But also, that answer will only affect the question. Posting a garbage question affects everyone trying to answer as they have to sift through it, determine if it is salvageable, and then also determine if the OP is willing to work with them.
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 20:51
  • 18
    New users are already required to register to ask a question, and there are automated question quality checks and account bans to ward of the worst of the worst. The situation is much better now than it used to be. IMO you're asking the wrong question; the right question is, why are so few users with moderation privileges willing to use them?
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 20:53
  • 6
    @RobertHarvey They don't care. There's no rep gained for moderating, or they aren't comfortable doing it. Low quality posts are still a burden on the community to moderate. I would try to push the burden of "are you paying attention" to the individual.
    – vcsjones
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 20:54
  • @RobertHarvey - I think it is because most users who have that much access generally want to help users, and have an ideal that the question can be salvaged. Some situations lead to that being a large waste of time and a feeling of discontent, and other times it leads to a viable post getting an answer. I don't think the knee-jerk reaction is to vtc and move on.
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 20:55
  • 5
    You might be right. But the best thing you can do for a new user's off-topic question is vote to close it. Arguments about what is and isn't on-topic are a waste of time; without a close vote, such arguments have no teeth anyway. People don't learn from arguments; they learn from cause and effect.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 20:57
  • 7
    @RobertHarvey Closing isn't a very good experience. There is often little feedback from members, or the question is outright deleted. My very first experience with StackOverflow was a torrent of downvotes, then when I refreshed the page it showed a picture of a waffle iron saying my question was deleted, probably because it sucked. How do people learn from waffle irons? It took me over a year to get enough rep to see deleted questions so I could see the comments why.
    – vcsjones
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 21:01
  • 6
    You do have a point. :) Waffle irons are not very good at holding whiteboard markers. Perhaps we should improve the closing experience. If you have a link, you should still be able to see your own deleted question. I've never quite understood why they are hidden from users' accounts.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 21:02
  • 1
    I very much agree with the idea of treating the ability to post questions as an earned privilege. In fact, I was just now forming a post to this board suggesting the same thing when I discovered you beat me to it :-) It would help prevent the plethora of questions posted by people who are looking not to learn, but get others to do their work for them (homework, professional, or otherwise).
    – snerd
    Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 17:00
  • 4
    I propose just a small educational investment of time. We don't want barriers, just a small demonstration of vested interest in the process. For example, right now it is quicker and easier to ask a duplicate than to search for an existing answer. And, you get rewarded with a link to the answer when your question is closed. This would probably improve if you had to spend just a few minutes looking over the tag wiki and FAQ before your first post to a tag.
    – A. Webb
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 5:52
  • How would one go about finding the necessary data to calculate the average time elapsed between a new user account being created and a new question being asked from said account?
    – dilbert
    Commented May 10, 2014 at 9:32
  • 2
    If I had been limited to 5 points before I could ask a question, I'd probably still be a 1-rep user. Commented Jun 6, 2014 at 5:14
  • 1
    @podiluska: Some of your flags are borderline. This one, for example, meets all of these requirements.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 6, 2014 at 16:18
  • 2
    Why don't we have like an incubator or something for newbies where the questions are temporary and moderators have to approve them or they have to have a certain number of upvotes to be permanently moved on to the main SO site? Until then the questions can remain in a temporary state and users can still answer these but no rep changes either way until they have been approved. All users will have to attain a certain rep level (say 10 or 20) to be able to post questions on the permanent side. This would be like having a warm-up lap.
    – shyam
    Commented Aug 7, 2014 at 6:22
  • 1
    @theo2003 - Nope, there is no feature being requested here. Instead, this discussion was aimed at figuring out what the effect of a feature may be, and if that was desirable or not. While there may be many feature requests asked, in order to actually have a successful feature implementation it usually requires some, if not extensive, discussion on the topic to allow community consensus on what shape the feature may look like.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 12, 2017 at 19:24

6 Answers 6

35

The question is: what would be the effect of introducing a small barrier? Without knowing the barrier, it's hard to say. For example, if the barrier is a minimum rep or waiting period the effect might be small. If the barrier would be to require they get approval from an established member, the effect would be huge.

So, maybe the question should be rephrased as "what sort of barrier could we impose that would have the smallest negative impact with the greatest positive impact?".

I think the goal of any barrier would be to encourage better questions. To that end, what if your first question required filling out a form, rather than a free-form text box? The form might have fields like:

  1. describe the problem in one sentence (for the title)
  2. give a paragraph or two describing the problem
  3. show at least one way you've researched this problem
  4. show us code that illustrates the problem
  5. tell us what language and operating system you're using (for tags)

I haven't thought this all through, but on the surface it seems like it might help. Many people simply don't know how to ask a good question. By saying "A good question has these features" and requiring they supply that, might help teach them what a good question is. Maybe make all four sections optional, but with an automatic downvote if they skip a section.

5
  • 1
    I really like your suggestion of having a UI for asking a first question, and your rephrasing as well. Don't forget a captcha :P
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 19, 2014 at 23:49
  • The only problem I see with this is if we do it for the first question... Well, the users will be confused as to the UI change when they do their second. That said, this might be a good way to have questions asked all-round. Or at least until a certain rep.
    – Kendra
    Commented Oct 20, 2014 at 15:15
  • 1
    Maybe they get the form until their rep hits 10, and the badge notification links to a description of the UI change? Commented Oct 20, 2014 at 15:20
  • @BryanOakley - Asking without the UI could be a privilege users get when they reach 10 rep.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 20, 2014 at 17:51
  • Looking back at my first time here on SO, I believe that would have helped me understand how the community wanted me to behave when I first came here. And I even read the guide.
    – Kitalda
    Commented Aug 17, 2015 at 8:23
29

I think, quite simply, it may cut down on junk questions by having users initially gain the small rep requirement (perhaps 5 points) by clicking through a quick overview of how to ask a proper question.

It seems that most new users have not read the FAQ or any of the rules, and treat StackOverflow like a forum. They're immediately confronted with us relatively annoyed alumni who, having dealt with a few dozen of their kind during the week on SO, are easily irritated and wind up biting their heads off, after which point, some don't come back.

So, simply put, a small barrier that can be overcome by going through an interactive guide to asking questions would cut down on bloodshed for both parties.

4
  • 3
    This is one of the best suggestions I've heard. One of the main issues is that asking a dumb question is almost effortless. So often, not even a simple google search was done prior to posting. At least if there was a small process to go through before becoming a member, it would make using a search engine a better bang for the buck than creating a SO account.
    – Gerrat
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 20:15
  • 2
    How about a offering a badge for reading the How to Ask page, much like the Informed badge for reading the entire about page? Then either require the badge to ask a question, or offer better question visibility (e.g. more chance of showing up on the Interesting page).
    – rhashimoto
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:02
  • 2
    That works too, although the trick is to make reading the about page mandatory. Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:08
  • 2
    @rhashimoto: The Analytical Badge seems to fit your idea. Still, do you see it was retired? Anyway, you only get to know there are badges when you take the time to look. Commented Jun 5, 2014 at 1:26
19

One interesting experiment would be to restrict answers to questions with at least +1 score. How far this restriction goes would take a bit of experimentation, but it can deter the "Need answer on homework NOW" questions from new users. If it's clear they won't get that answer NOW, they might look for a better location.

As a first experiment, I'd limit the restriction to 24 hours and then only for new users. I.e. to get your first answer, you need to either ask a good question (upvoted) or wait for 24 hours.

The benefit to SO is that this limits the impact of help vampires. Since we require an independent upvote, they can't upvote and then answer the question. In the mean time, we have 24 hour to close it as a duplicate question, get clarification etc.

10
  • 7
    Mm, good in theory, but some of us do enjoy salvaging terrible questions with a combination edit and answer, when possible. We have the "Reversal" badge for a reason. I would also point out that we DO have a few established members who are just poison mean, and downvote any question that hints at a method they didn't think of. (Usually accompanied by a long rant on how stupid you are for not using THEIR method instead). Thus, these few bad users could, at least temporarily, prevent answering of legitimately good, yet presently unnoticed, questions. That could be a dangerous deterrent. Commented May 6, 2014 at 6:26
  • 5
    I don't like this answer. There are a lot of ways to get a score of 0 even with an OK question, such as by having a somewhat niche target audience. I would have less disagreement with "no answers on new (< 24h old) questions with negative votes and no other answers", though. I imagine it will piss of people half-way through giving an elaborate answer, although I suppose you can "queue" the answer.
    – Veedrac
    Commented Jun 6, 2014 at 12:41
  • I do like this idea. Bad questions should not get free rep answers.
    – Chad
    Commented Jun 6, 2014 at 16:26
  • 2
    +1 I would alter this suggestion to questions with "one upvote" rather than a score of "+1" - thus removing the ability to disable a question from being answered by downvoting it
    – podiluska
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 8:58
  • 1
    @podiluska: unfortunately there are people who "counter-vote". A question at -10 attracts upvotes from people who think it should be at -2.
    – MSalters
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 9:09
  • Well can't multiple "rep addicts" all upvote poor questions, knowing that they're helping each other to allow answers to these sorts of questions? Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 9:30
  • @Qantas94Heavy, that would require them to be thinking of others and not just themselves and their ephemeral internet points. Wouldn't happen. Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 9:53
  • 2
    This would sink niche topics. For example, for one of the tags I keep an eye on, only 8 out of the 50 most recent questions have a score above zero. Commented Oct 19, 2014 at 14:59
  • Niche topics rarely have quick answers anyway, so a 24 hour delay isn't that troublesome (and remember it's 0 hours for existing users)
    – MSalters
    Commented Oct 20, 2014 at 6:51
  • This should still be set underway, but only for new users posting in extremely popular tags such as android and java. Commented Apr 20, 2016 at 8:51
5

Setting privilege limit to ask a question: I am afraid that the effect would be really big, resulting in a Catch 22 situation. No easy questions would mean no easy answers, no easy answers would mean no easy questions, which will result in almost no new users on SO at all.

Necessity to register for some period of time: This would be definitely a better option, but won't help anything really - you'll only delay the time when the silly questions will be posted.

While this will potentially limit a large amount of new questions from users, it will also allow them to search for duplicates faster as they cannot ask at first. Moreover, this will encourage them to have a positive interaction before posting a question.

They won't be really able to do some "positive interaction", only thing they would be able to do would be answering. In other words, it will effectively transform bad questions to bad answers.

5
  • Users with 6 reputation still tend to ask rather easy questions (for example: stackoverflow.com/q/23279619/1026459), the barrier is still very low at 5 reputation. Aside from answering, a user unable to ask a question would be able to suggest edits (+2 if approved). Two of these would get them to 5 reputation. This would at least require some basic interaction with the site, and if approved it would probably seem positive.
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 21:09
  • @TravisJ Users with 6 reputation still get the reputation by 1 upvote on a question they previously asked. Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 21:10
  • You indicated that requiring a 5 reputation barrier to asking would mean "No easy questions" and that "the effect would be really big". That was what I was responding to.
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 21:12
  • @TravisJ How would new users get 5 reputation without an option to ask a question and get an upvote on it from someone else? Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 21:14
  • It could have been someone with 8, 12, 4 or 5 but that was the first one on the question page I came across as a simple example. The point was it was a 6 reputation user (more than 5), not how they achieved their reputation. Either way, limiting "easy" questions is not really the goal so much as making sure users understand the expected question asking process.
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 21:17
3

I haven't be active contributor until few days ago, but I've been user for a while now. My usage was usually as go-to place to find answers. What I notice now when I traverse through a list of questions looking at what I can contribute too, there is so much junk coming from user that so it seems just created an account to get someone to do school assignment for them, or users that were not even bothered to google search the problem, god forbid someone actually check documentation....

I think most of these users are after quick answers, like asking a senior colleague instead of looking at the problem for a while, banging their head trying to find solutions online or in manuals. Senior colleague knows better and will tell them to google it :) but a lot of people here would start answering. So you see simple questions being immediately addressed by contributors that if nothing have some experience and are intrigued to research a problem.

Which I think is exactly what person asking is after. I'd suggest following:

  • create an algorithm that based on the score of the user posting question will delay actual posting on the question, or
  • will block question for answering or commenting until specific time period passed or another user with significantly higher score would approve question worthy answering. (ideally that persons score would be measured in by the common tags between his experience and a question)

I think introducing a delay even of day requiring user to come back again tomorrow and re-submit / confirm question would be deterrent enough for this group.

My rationale is if the question is worth your time to come back to it and wait for an answer then it is worth attention of other people here.

2

What if new users were made to read at least parts of the FAQ and then made to go through an audit type test similar to Review Triage. They aren't actually doing triage, all the questions are tests to see if they can distinguish a good question from a bad one. Have them do the same thing for answers... can they distinguish a good answer from a bad answer? Teach them about voting, reputations, and so on. If they miss a few audits, they are made to review the relevant help page again.

Another thing that could be done is that users up to x rep must have questions/answers reviewed/approved before they become visible. People reviewing these new user questions/answers either approve or reject... rejects must include a comment on how the Q/A can be improved.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .