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I promoted this question I am running ORB in cv2 and the program just keeps on crashing out of Staging Ground, because the question was clear and well-stated, and they included a git repository link that included a minimal but functional reproducing case, along with the MP4 file that was required to run the test.

Moments after I promoted it, it had already gathered a downvote and a complaint that the code was not present in the post. I find this disingenuous. In order to run the test, you're going to have to fetch the github repo anyway, and looking at the code in github is no harder than looking at it in the post. I even complimented the asker on including the test video, thus making a complete, runnable demonstration.

Is there no way to win? Does nitpicking really provide any value, when the asker has done so many things correctly?

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    That's not nitpicking. Questions need to be self-contained, the MCVE needs to be part of them. Otherwise there's a risk of the external resources disappearing. That requirement has existed for a very long time, why are you surprised?
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:02
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    The user says it crashes, but there's no sign of backtrace. So it's just a guessing game of what's actually wrong. That shouldn't have gone out of the staging ground IMHO.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:07
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    Finally, many problems with analysis of a video (or camera stream) can be reduced to problems involving a single (or small number of) frames. In which case you can make that image part of the question as well, hosted here. That's the ideal scenario, but often users don't bother going that far in making a MCVE. We see that all the time in the opencv tag.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:10
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    Here's the staging ground post link, for context of the post as it appeared when Tim approved it.
    – Spevacus
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:13
  • He said it crashed, but that was untrue. It just reached the end of the file quicker than he expected, because it was playing faster than real-time. That wouldn't have shown up with a 1 or 2 frame sample, and there was no backtrace. There are too many cases here where we apply global rules without figuring out whether they really apply. Commented Aug 21 at 20:15
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    @TimRoberts The lack of an MRE/MCVE definitely applies; questions must be self contained.
    – Daedalus
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:16
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    In that case it's a completely misleading question, and definitely needs improvement. | The external video I'd forgive.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:16
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    On Marijn's note, is the GPL-3.0 license compatible? Because Tim Roberts copied content from the repo(which is under that license) directly into the question. I'm inclined to roll back if it is incompatible, for the aforementioned reasons.
    – Daedalus
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:23
  • I suspect that was an oversight rather than an intention, but I see the point, and I won't object to having my edit rescinded. Commented Aug 21 at 20:25
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    "He said it crashed, but that was untrue. It just reached the end of the file quicker than he expected" - yet you maintain that this was a "clear and well-stated" question??? Commented Aug 21 at 20:29
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    "There are too many cases here where we apply global rules without figuring out whether they really apply" Certainly. And also, too many cases where not enough global rules are applied. Who's right or wrong? Usually somewhere in the middle, everyone is somewhat to blame. It is true that curators are not that willing anymore to try and read between the lines and will fire from the hip when they see common patterns in posts. But that is a direct result of there being an infinitely larger influx of (unwanted) questions compared to when you signed up 11 years ago.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 22 at 11:22

2 Answers 2

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I promoted this question I am running ORB in cv2 and the program just keeps on crashing out of Staging Ground

You should not have done this. The question is nowhere near meeting site standards. Please read:

Question Close Reasons - Definitions and Guidance

Why should I help close "bad" questions that I think are valid, instead of helping the OP with an answer?

because the question was clear and well-stated

No, it isn't. What does OP mean that the code "crashes"? According to your own comment, the code runs to the end successfully. It's not apparent that there's any problem to ask a question about in the first place. If you believe that the problem is that the video plays too quickly, and that the question is "how do I force the video to play at real-time speed rather than as quickly as possible" then you are reading something that isn't in the question. You should have gotten that ironed out in the Staging Ground first: confirmed that you correctly understood, then edited the question yourself, then looked for a duplicate before graduating the question.

But the OP doesn't even agree with you: "So the error brought out that the frame is empty". It's hard to make any sense of that at all, but it sounds like OP saw some kind of error message - but didn't see fit to show it properly and completely, i.e., in a way that meets standards.

As a SG reviewer, it's your responsibility to understand and enforce those standards.

and they included a git repository link that included a minimal but functional reproducing case

This is not acceptable, as a well known and settled matter of policy:

Something in my web site or project doesn't work. Can I just paste a link to it?

I would strongly encourage you to take a moment to read through the rest of the FAQ entries on Meta before reviewing more SG questions (and especially before answering any main-site questions).

When the question is about the behaviour of code, code necessary to reproduce the problem must be in the question itself. When the question is about the operation of that code on some data, the question must also include either a complete example set of data, or hard-coded values in the program, or code which generates the necessary data.

If such things wouldn't fit in a post here, the question is inherently not suitable. Before posting a question a problem in code, it's OP's responsibility to figure out what's actually necessary to cause the problem - and a well scoped question will necessarily not require very much to cause the problem.

If the problem can be reproduced with any video file, or "any video file meeting XYZ constraints", then the question should say that instead of trying to include the data. If it requires a specific video, then OP is responsible for diagnosing what content in the video is necessary to cause the problem. (In all likelihood, a problem that really looks like that will boil down to a bug report for some library, not a proper SO question.)

Moments after I promoted it, it had already gathered a downvote and a complaint that the code was not present in the post. I find this disingenuous.

Our standards are our standards. The code must be present in the post. Please make sure you understand the reasoning. Nothing about this question makes it worthy of an exception.

In particular, please note well that we do not operate a help desk; the purpose of questions here is not to get the underlying problem solved for the OP, but instead to help build a library.

In order to run the test, you're going to have to fetch the github repo anyway

That counts against the question. A suitable question for Stack Overflow necessarily does not involve fetching a github repo for any reason.

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    "and especially before answering" -- major emphasis on that. So many posts that should have been close-votes instead, especially from someone with so much reputation.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:38
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    @DanMašek posting instead of close-voting is a great way to get that rep. The incentive system is completely broken. Commented Aug 21 at 20:41
  • Yeah, I know. It's just disheartening seeing apparently intelligent people fall for that trap and completely miss the point of what we're trying to build here.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 22:43
-10

I'd consider this more of a technicality.

While technically... the post is well described and everything one needs to answer it exists, by these things not literally being in the question itself it limits who can answer and how useful the content itself is for tools that can't access the git repository (such as SO's search or other real search engines.)

Even if it would have a worse readability, we still want the content to exist here so that here is where people will land when they search for it and so that it will remain useful here even if the external sources cease serving the content freely without a paywall.

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  • Yes, I agree, and I guess my question ends up being more of a rant against the rampant downvoting that provides satisfaction but discourages newcomers. Commented Aug 21 at 20:23
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    Important reason for the MCVE being in the question is that it then ends up in the data dump. And if I'm not mistaken, one of the ideas behind having the data dump is that you can set up a completely isolated copy of it, and have all the information right there.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:24
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    @TimRoberts "rampant downvoting that provides satisfaction" -- for one, I think people don't down/close vote anywhere near enough given the quality of the content posted. Second, no, it really doesn't give me any satisfaction having to do so. On the contrary.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:27
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    The issues i described should have been fixed before it was graduated from the SG. Faulting users for downvoting a question that has serious problems is kinda silly.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:32
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    @TimRoberts We have a feature to prevent "rampant downvoting" - the Staging Ground! It's usually pretty easy to tell that a question is going to get downvoted/closed; the Staging Ground creates a chance to fix any problems before it gets posted.
    – Anerdw
    Commented Aug 21 at 20:46
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    That "rampant downvoting" is a direct result of someone approving a question that shouldn't have been...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 21 at 22:33
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    @TimRoberts - Users should not avoid downvoting low quality questions just because the user is new to the community. I absolutely dislike and disagree with the “new user” tag, treating new users different from other users, is absolutely disgusting behavior. Rampant downvoting to that question wouldn’t have been possible if a bad question wasn’t promoted out of Staging Ground. Perhaps the solution to this problem is downvotes are linked to the user who promotes a question out of Staging Ground including the author since they are ultimately responsible for their question’s quality. Commented Aug 22 at 2:15
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    @DanMašek "one of the ideas behind having the data dump is that you can set up a completely isolated copy of it, and have all the information right there" and this is already being done. Researchers in remote regions with spotty or weak internet connection use the data dump to have an "offline SO" because they can't simply google something. It's also used in programming education in prisons where inmates are not granted full access to the internet but can still search the Q&A. Same can be done in some schools or other places.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 22 at 6:22
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    What should provide satisfaction is seeing a well-oiled machine because of all the things we do, including quality voting. That has been lost for some time now. Features like the staging ground should help, but we need to do our best to understand how to make it actually help and not go through it as yet another chore.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 22 at 11:27

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