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There is this post on meta that makes an announcement to the mods on some of the new requirements they will be needed to present before suspending a user who supposedly used AI to generate an answer. In that answer they state:

Internal evidence strongly suggests that the overapplication of suspensions for AI-generated content may be turning away a large number of legitimate contributors to the site.

They have also criticized a tool that moderators use for tracing AI generated content for producing a high number of false positives. This means that a lot of innocent users might have been banned as a result of a false positive check. Is moderator overreach making the Stack Exchange experience bad both for users (they are turned away) and for the company (lost a legitimate number of visitors)?

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    Where is the hard data that backs up this assertion? The actual data, either from you or from the site owners? Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:14
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    Short answer: SE has no idea what they’re talking about. Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:15
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    What do you get from the comments under that post? Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:16
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    If you consider users that copy-paste from ChatGPT as legitimate contributors, then sure, they are turned away
    – BDL
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:17
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    I don’t think anybody here really believes that they have anything convincing. As a matter of fact, a great number of us are quite convinced they are actually lying. Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:17
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    @PassionateSE But also, not really. They’re not much right. We have been aware of that for a long time. They are twisting the reality, and spreading misinformation and lies about the way we have been moderating AI content. Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:19
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    The public messaging has been very different than private communication. The fact that there is this public/private split is infuriating on its own. The data hasn't been shared, the messaging is making implications without talking to any of us prior to this, and it's driving everyone to make inferences to data we can't see.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:21
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    Here’s our response to SE Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:22
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    The tool mentioned is a data point, but no moderator is depending only on a single tool we all know has a high false positive rate.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:23
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    Bah, why are we re-hashing the same things over-and-over again in this needlessly redundant meta post? Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:24
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    We have been following the guidelines we worked with SE to develop and put in the help center which mentions the suspension of such users.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:26
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    "high number of false positives" is completely arbitrary statement that was not backed by any data. Nobody is turning away legitimate contributors, The only thing we had in large numbers was utter crap AI generated posts.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 13:35
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    @PassionateSE It's not physically possible. Look at the numbers. Moderators can't suspend enough people to have the impact that SE has claimed the suspensions are causing, unless we were programmatically suspending everybody, which we weren't doing. SE's problems are that traffic is leaving in millions. SE moderators suspend thousands. The effects are off by orders of magnitude.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 15:22
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    It's not just ChatGPT, but ChatGPT is a major contributor to making an already negative trend dramatically worse. I, of course, don't have actual information as to why people are leaving, but leaving for ChatGPT and other AI generation providers is the most likely thing, IMO. Here's a blog post on similarweb showing traffic on ChatGPT, SO, and GitHub. Question and answer asking/answering rates are explored in answer to: "Did Stack Exchange's traffic go down since ChatGPT?"
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 15:51
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    @PassionateSE no, I am not validating the company's knee-jerk reaction which is based on no data at all (they haven't been able to show us even one single wrong suspension!). I am just saying that if the company had just told us "we are afraid there may be many unfair suspensions, could you stop suspending for a while" or "could you warn before suspending", I'm sure all mods would have been happy to comply. They could have talked to us. Instead, they chose to attack us.
    – terdon
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 23:11

3 Answers 3

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There is no hard evidence on there being a significant amount of inappropriately handed suspensions due to the "no AI generated content" policy. The company handwaved those ideas based on a vague assortment of cues. Even without being a moderator, one can grasp this conclusion from the following points:

  • The official announcement from the company pointed towards the inaccuracy of one of the generated content detection tools as a justification for this measure. This is a distraction and an attempt of poisoning discussion, as moderators are known to use much more than one of the tools at their disposal. Some moderators have never used any of these detectors, while others that do consult a detector have never relied solely on its results. Therefore, in no way does the detection performance of a single tool reflect the moderators' overall capacity at identifying this form of activity.
  • It would be unsurprising if the company had been collecting complaints from people who were suspended for this reason. Aside from the fact that each complaint needs to be evaluated carefully rather than just taking their word for it, they constitute anecdotic evidence at best, and not proof that there is a systemic moderation failure.
  • The idea that "legitimate users" are being pushed away from the site is worth breaking down. Complaints like this will often conflate the various things about the platform that they don't like, including how voting and closing works. This is irrespective of how "legitimate" people think they are, and even before AI generated posts were a problem, this was never an excuse to stop voting, closing questions, or moderating altogether. But much worse than that, one has to be blunt here: the activity of users just building up dubious content derived from ChatGPT or other AI text generation tools is simply not legitimate. Let's not call them as such.

Ever since Stack Overflow became widely popular, moderators had to resort to heavy handed actions against the flow of low quality content. As these tools opened up yet another vector for problematic content, moderation had to adapt just the same. Unfortunately, the company is out of touch with the community, and wants to optimize for more participation rather than more quality. Emptying the hands of moderators with respect to AI generated content is a case of throwing the baby with the bath water, the full consequences of which may take time to sense in its entirety. Folks will continue raising their fists against something they don't like, but the difference is that, after some time, it may no longer be worth scavenging for answers here. We shrug and wave goodbye.

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  • This turf between the mods and the company is an interesting one and am gonna stay tuned on new developments as the mods have already threatened a strike which will let poor quality posts flood the site, what if the company says its okay for the mods to strike, we have AI that can detect and close poor quality posts?
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 14:10
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    @PassionateSE I think what you see as a turf between the mods and the company is merely a tip of the iceberg. It's indeed between the company and folks like me who rely on Stack Overflow in their programming jobs. I use Stack Overflow almost daily and I don't want my search results to be polluted by unverified output from ChatGPT parroted by folks having no slightest idea of the subject matter. I use SO to learn from experienced programmers who understand what they post - if it can't give me that then I will go somewhere else
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 14:26
  • @gnat, what if they implement AI into the system to replace the mods?
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 14:29
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    @PassionateSE why speculate about things that aren't happening. After they implement that system and after such system was tested and proven to work well enough, I probably would be interested. Meanwhile, this is not even close, so I simply refuse to waste my brain energy on talking about fictional things
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 14:32
  • @gnat, yes the AI could generate an answer that is outdated or misleading because the cut off date for the data GPT uses is 2021. The company should just let the mods do their job irrespective of losing a legitimate number of users.
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 14:42
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    @PassionateSE of AI were capable of replacing mods, that would mean that AI detectors work well enough to reliably recognize AI content, which they don't. It would also mean AI would be good enough that we wouldn't need to guard against it, it would be accurate enough to be consistently helpful. In any case, if that's what the company wants to do, let them. That would mean I, at least, would have no interest in participating on these sites any more anyway.
    – terdon
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 14:57
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    By the way, the reason chatGPT gets things wrong isn't the cutoff date, it's that it is just a large language model and those things get stuff wrong. The cutoff is a small, tiny part of it.
    – terdon
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 14:59
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    @PassionateSE What's the point of SE if it's just a big cache of stale LLM answers? If you want an LLM answer, ask an LLM. If you want a human answer, ask SE. Everyone is happy. The company allowing LLM answers pretty much defeats their entire value proposition as a business, even if LLM technology can magically stop hallucinations in the near future. Until then, it's just polluting the site with trash and making it even harder to curate than it was before LLMs.
    – ggorlen
    Commented Jun 4, 2023 at 18:31
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    @gnat-onstrike- Is there somewhere else to go (on the internet)? Or is it time to launch a new platform (with a non-profit structure of course)?
    – Joooeey
    Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 11:50
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    @Joooeey sure, one example list of alternatives is discussed here
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 13:48
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There is no evidence for this claim. It's possible but doubtful.

SE hasn't provided any data to support this statement. We have only the data that can be officially gathered (either from SEDE or from the 25k mod tools). The analytics tell us something, but it doesn't tell us the cause. Let me present publicly available information so anyone can draw conclusions.

Since November 2022 participation on Stack Overflow has dramatically decreased. The number of questions asked (and in turn the number of new answers) has almost halved in the past 6 months.

Taking the week commencing 2022-11-28 (the week ChatGPT 3 was released) as the base, we can calculate the percentage.

  • All posts: from 85236 to 48492 (56% of what it was in Nov 2022)

  • Questions: from 45554 to 26424 (58% of what it was in Nov 2022)

  • Answers: from 39682 to 22068 (55% of what it was in Nov 2022)

Please note that all numbers include the deleted posts.

The decline in participation is gradual, and the trend shows that it will keep going down in the coming months. There is a smaller but also significant decrease in the number of votes: https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/revision/1758300/2137026#graph. The number of accept votes has also halved in the last 6 months https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/revision/1758300/2137028#graph which corresponds to the decline in the questions asked.

The 25k analytics tool shows that the number of total visits has decreased by 33% percent in the last 6 months, although it doesn't follow the same pattern as the decline in new posts. There were drastic drops in the number of page views in January and in April.

In terms of suspensions, there was a major increase in the number of suspensions across the network since December 2022 (according to the information received in chat from staff, but also observed by SO mods), but for the exact data you need to wait for SE to release something. How the number of suspensions correlates to the number of active participants that decided to stop contributing to Stack Overflow is unclear.

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  • wondering if there is any publicly (for moderators) available data of suspensions due to ai answers and those answers to run whatever tool/analysis to detect the alleged false positives in that subsample? Or is already that tool/analysis used by the company a secret?
    – kleopatra
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 10:46
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    I doubt it. The tools we have are so bad we can't even look up the suspensions or past messages. I assume staff uses just the internal version of SEDE.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 10:51
  • The company should have asked the mods to stop suspending for a while
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 15:54
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    @PassionateSE That's something we've mentioned to them many times. Our returning to the normal of sending a warning upon first occurrence, rather than a suspension (they encouraged suspension on first occurrence), would have taken only a single chat message like "Hey y'all, for AI generated content, please return to warning prior to suspending.". That's all it would have taken. No need to formally change policy. No drama. Easy. It would have also provided data that would falsify their assertion that the suspensions are dramatically impacting their engagement across the platform.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 16:00
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    @Makyen, people are gonna start by asking GPT something and only when GPT fails to provide a solution then they post to Stack Exchange. That could explain why the new posts are going down. People give GPT first priority for their questions.
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 16:04
  • @Makyen, it's up to Stack Exchange to up their game by improving the site to include a separate chat bot called Meta Chat bot for each platform and use data available in the network to train it, it's not too late for Stack Exchange. They can do this even if Google failed at Bard. They can then implement HTML blink to animate the response
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 16:07
  • @Makyen, SE can implement a chat bot that accepts a question then looks up for similar questions on the related site and finds the most upvoted or accepted answer for that question and then replies to a user like chat GPT but included the author of that post in the response
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 16:10
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    @PassionateSE While any or all of those might be a good idea, it is ineffective to post the ideas as comments here or ping me for them. I have almost no say in what SE does. I can make suggestions in feature-requests on meta sites, which is something anyone else can do. For moderator related things, I do have a bit of a back-channel which can be used for moderator related issues, but it's not effective at major changes.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 16:31
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    Even issues which are critical for the tool to be useful I've had to report 3 or 4 times and wait a year and a half for resolution (example; first reported about a year and a half prior to that post). Other things, even just simply changing just text have taken multiple years from when others have reported them. If you want to suggest something, then you need to post a feature-request question.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jun 5, 2023 at 16:32
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Yes, but it is a phenomenon that predates the use of ChatGPT. ChatGPT is merely a catalyst used to rein in moderation abuse.

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    Could be right, some mods abuse the system but a majority of them go by the book. Some users might feel oppressed but they are actually maintaining the integrity and quality of the site by being tough.
    – user16612111
    Commented Jun 18, 2023 at 7:12
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    It is the contrary. With the most active SO moderators on strike, I would not dare to participate regularly with comments and whatnot, and then have to be subjected to abuse for several hours until a moderator comes along. meta.stackoverflow.com/a/396581 My experience here on Meta tells me that being against moderators in general is an awfully bad stance to have.
    – E_net4
    Commented Jun 19, 2023 at 7:41

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