-9

I'm outright confused by this arbitrary line now because both moderators and gold badge holders have weighed in on this against it, so this is related to a question at the bottom of this post but I'm really curious as to how the hell this line is now drawn.

I have seen Off Topic Flag -> Server Fault?, and I would say this question comes under the old line of "unless they directly involve programming or programming tools" setting up a Web Server software in its default setup of it get's connected to from a Web Server definitely falls under programming tools and the questions still open on SO would also suggest this (see bottom)

I'm not against the question being closed or anything like that I'm against the reason given for its closure, it could well have been closed for other reasons it was not well-formatted, there was no example of what had been tried (perfectly valid reasons for it to have been closed) but I don't think "professional server or networking-related infrastructure administration" is a valid reason for this question(by English stuff like 'how do I set up Active Directory, or 'how do I set up a cisco firewall' yeah they do fall under that category), the way that is worded means in English is "professional server administration", & "networking-related infrastructure administration" is related to this. there is absolutely no punctuation to change that from the meaning in English

IMHO Setting up a web server is not professional server stuff most Web Programmers will have done this at some point. (I would always recommend someone to do it on a VPS or some other remote system to protect their machine from opening it up to the Internet)

So someone asked how to set up a Public IP Server for PHP on a Windows Server (this is clearly one person setting up their first VPS, so not professional), Then there was an absolutely absurd in my eye comment "L/W/MAMP stacks are tools primarily for programmers. They are not designed for hosting services ("ignoring that most bind to 0.0.0.0") so anything allowed to talk to them can" apache web server is most defiantly built for professional use, this just shows a level of outright stupidity, ignorance or malice about how Web Servers work like the fact that a L/W/MAMP Technology Stacks are the very same stacks that are some of if not the most commonly deployed mainstream setups (OS, Apache2, PHP, MySQL) Professional (cPanel comes to mind) or not (XAMP comes to mind).

But if this is the case that these are classed as "Deploying software", and the statement "Deploying software is not programming" this should mean no questions that require answers saying to update any software I.E JDK, Node.JS ... Absolutely no covering DevOps because container setups have absolutely nothing to do with development they are entirely about setting up an environment. (this is quoted because I think it's absolutely stupid but that is the precedent from what has happened on the question)

I think the mentality used on that question goes against some of the tags on Stack Overflow, [Docker] has 107,330, [NginX] 49,280, + [Apache2] > 200,000, most of these Q&A's related to setting up software &/ Environments and not programming.

So please before you comment please make sure your reason does not also block the [Docker] Tag, anything like "because it setting up software and not programming" means all the questions below need closing &/ deleting, and anything that is about Dockerfile also needs removing. which I don't agree with. just make sure that a justification does not also violate the tags that have not been blocked on the site.

Questions still on the site and not closed relating to apache2 setup, How Do I Make An Apache Server Public? Creating an apache server

And a whole boatload more: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A%22stackoverflow.com%22+how+to+setup+a+public+apache2+php+web+server&sxsrf=AOaemvK7hsg7MrUmeJWs9PkeZvpKMv_E3A%3A1639599298229&ei=wky6YYawDYf2kwXwzpnoCA&ved=0ahUKEwiGmfqtz-b0AhUH-6QKHXBnBo0Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=site%3A%22stackoverflow.com%22+how+to+setup+a+public+apache2+php+web+server&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6BwgAEEcQsANKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQwAVY3AZghAhoAXACeACAAUqIAYwBkgEBMpgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

This has come about because of this question, (note it's deleted so not everyone can see it) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70335558/publicly-running-hosting-php-website-from-vserver-using-ip-adress

Publicly running / hosting PHP website from vServer using IP adress

I have rent a vServer with Windows Server 2016 and own IP address. So not a normal webhosting package but I can login over remote control and do what I want.

How can I publicly run a PHP website on it by calling the server ip address in the browser?

Will it be public when I'd use XAMPP or is it for local only?

I can't find tutorials how to do that and I don't know where/how to look for the right tutorials. I've searched in google and youtube for MANY hours with no success.

2
  • it was not well-formatted, there was no example of what had been tried (perfectly valid reasons for it to have been closed) Neither of those are "perfectly valid reasons for a question to be closed". Commented Dec 15, 2021 at 20:41
  • 2
    The well formatted, i don't mean the actual format of the question i mean the structure of the question was a mess to understand what was being asked, as per "Needs Details or Clarity" and example of what had been tried "Needs debugging details" both of which are very much valid reasons for closure because they are responses built into the review system
    – Barkermn01
    Commented Dec 15, 2021 at 20:44

2 Answers 2

11

You're not programming anything when setting up a public web server. You're setting up a web server.

Server Fault is the place one should go to with questions about how to set up a web server.

I won't deny that the line gets blurry - sometimes a developer needs to set up a web server to run on their local machine for development, and that needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. But here, it's bang obvious that the OP wants to set up a public web server, which is out of scope for Stack Overflow.

(Also too, the question is pretty...incomplete? It's asking multiple questions, which is not exactly a positive sign.)

6
  • I don't disagree with the comment in brackets, but then why are Dockerfile questions allowed? this is what I'm wanting to have a consensus on? this would be no different to configuring apache for virtualhost, IIS for setting up a website, your just building a config file, & then ton of questions where the answer is sudo packagemanager install php ... just because it's public or private does not change the answers or question, something being public or private is entirely to do with networking i agree but setting up the software and what about all the other questions (the google link)
    – Barkermn01
    Commented Dec 15, 2021 at 21:27
  • @Barkermn01: Building a Dockerfile is not the same as deploying a Docker image, and not all Docker images run web services. I have several that only run batch processes or are used as tools in a build process.
    – Makoto
    Commented Dec 15, 2021 at 21:38
  • not saying they do just that dockerfile is the instruction to create a docker image or container, web services or not it is not part of the programming of the application it's the environment setup.
    – Barkermn01
    Commented Dec 15, 2021 at 21:42
  • @Barkermn01: Have a read: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/276642/1079354
    – Makoto
    Commented Dec 15, 2021 at 21:43
  • i have now thanks but then I'm not sure that is correct because "developers and by system administrators often differs" in my experience they don't it's the same stuff the only thing that is slightly different is Net Admins have to configure the container environment but the software stack is the developer or Net Admin (some dev's don't know the stack) but past initial setup there is nothing more for the Net Admin to do, but then even if they are allowed why not the software stack for a web server? and why are the so many questions that are allowed about the same topic just a different OS?
    – Barkermn01
    Commented Dec 15, 2021 at 22:01
  • "but then why are Dockerfile questions allowed" - for the same reason that questions about HTML are allowed; it's not really programming but it looks like it close enough that exceptions are made. We don't want to be TOO pedantic. Very useful questions with even more useful answers. But say you create a dockerfile but then docker fails to boot because it can't create a volume on your disc - that's when you get into off-topic territory.
    – Gimby
    Commented Dec 16, 2021 at 15:19
5

Ok, I will admit that the topic you touch upon falls in a grey area, however, the question which triggered this discussion seems to be clearly off-topic. Let me explain.

Software developers have to use a number of tools in their daily workflow. Some are programming specific such as IDE, compiler or phpMyAdmin. Some are general purpose such as Windows, Ubuntu, vi, Google Chrome. Then there are ones that it is hard to draw a line such as Docker or Kubernetes. A webserver falls under this last category.

Web developers must use a webserver to run and test their software. The webserver they use is usually set up for development. Either the configuration is different than in the professional one, or it's just outright unsuitable for productive use, e.g. PHP built-in web server. Apache webserver can be used locally. For ease of development, it is usually provided as part of a whole stack of development software such as XAMPP or Wampserver. The developer installs such premade software without giving it much thought how it is configured.

I was a little bit unclear in my earlier comments. WAMP stack can be used productively, but it has to be the professional version, not XAMPP. Setting up Apache, PHP and MySQL so that you can deploy your website to the world is not a task of the developer. It's a very broad topic that has nothing to do with the actual development of the website. As a web developer, you can get away without knowing anything about Apache; you don't get paid to know Apache.

As you can see, configuring Apache, PHP and MySQL can sometimes be done for development purposes, but most often is not. It is done by sysadmins when preparing the productive webserver. Therefore, you have to judge questions one by one. If it's about setting webserver for a development machine, then it's on-topic.

The question that started all of this is not only unclear and too broad, but it's also not related to programming. It was closed because it is asking how to set up the production environment. The question asker knows already how to set up the development environment; they can just install XAMPP. Setting up the production environment involves much more work and installing XAMPP is not going to help here.

If we want to make a blanket statement then I guess it should be: any usage of tools outside of the development process is off-topic for Stack Overflow. This means that Apache, Docker, Kubernates and Windows questions might be on-topic, but often aren't. And yes, this implies that there are a lot of off-topic questions on Stack Overflow, so comparing old questions to new ones doesn't justify keeping the new ones open. Each question speaks for itself.

2
  • That makes sense, but then it does imply the old ones really need to be closed as off-topic so people don't get the impression it's a valid topic on the site when you have 10+ pages on Google about that topic, that's a lot of questions implying people are allowed to ask that. so should we be retroactively closing blatantly setup questions if we see them? as closing them does not affect votes on them...
    – Barkermn01
    Commented Dec 16, 2021 at 0:06
  • 2
    @Barkermn01 Yes, correct. We do so, but there are not enough people to do it. We focus on closing the recent ones and close the old ones when we encounter them.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Dec 16, 2021 at 0:07

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