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It is odd that is now part of the Intel Collective, even though some Q&A in this tag specifically mention/discuss AMD. Even more funny for that was actually invented by AMD.

Is there a specific reason for this? Can we remove those tags from the collective?


Reviewed all Intel Collective tags:

  • is non-Intel x86 implementation, as @Bergi pointed out
  • is an x86 instruction, so the same issue as with
  • has a lot of Q&A not related to Intel, but it is the result of misuse: wiki states clearly that it is Intel product
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    I wonder what would have happened had StackOverflow decided to go with [amd64] (currently synonym of [x86-64]) :P Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 16:27
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    Collectives are just a group of tags related to a subject. The fact that the tag is relevant to Intel doesn't mean it can't be relevant elsewhere, a tag can be associated with multiple collectives, we just need to wait for AMD to make theirs. Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 16:48
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    Collectives are just sponsorships
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 17:01
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    Just another example of why collectives need to go away.
    – Alejandro
    Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 18:17
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    Earlier I asked if collectives can have tags in common and jd-stack answered at that time that it's possible. So anything goes. If AMD becomes a collective they could probably have these tags too. Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 19:13
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    Also [jasmin-x86] appears to be a non-intel x86 implementation, I have no idea how that got into the collective.
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 19:41
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    @Bergi My guess: $$$$$
    – Alejandro
    Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 23:48
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    @Alejandro I doubt Intel would pay a cent to put their label on the two (sic!) questions about a hobby emulator used in education.
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 3, 2021 at 23:57
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    This looks very inconsistent. Neither x86-64 nor arm were designed by Intel. Both x86-64 and ARM CPUs are or were being built by Intel. But only one of the two tags is part of the collective. That makes no sense. Either both of them should be or neither of them should. I cannot think of a coherent set of objective criteria that would differentiate between the two. Commented Nov 4, 2021 at 13:12
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    Also, I just realized that the tag synonyms for x86-64 and amd64 seem to be the wrong way round. The name of the architecture is AMD64, x86-64 was used in some early documents before AMD had settled on a name, and thus ended up being used in some early ports (e.g. GNU autoconf and GCC, I believe), but it is not the name the architecture is known by. Commented Nov 4, 2021 at 13:16
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    @JörgWMittag The architecture is absolutely known by "x86-64". It is used all over the place. Just see this Google Scholar search result, for example. I rarely ever hear someone say AMD64 but hear people say x86-64 (or even just x86) all the time. It may be technically incorrect, but it is used that way.
    – idmean
    Commented Nov 4, 2021 at 16:47
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    @JörgWMittag Technically, Intel's CPUs don't implement "AMD64", they implement a 99%-compatible architecture called "Intel 64", so "x86-64" is sometimes used as a neutral name covering all implementations. The Wikipedia article (which itself has "x86-64" as the primary name) gives examples using both terms, as well as the slightly confusing "x64".
    – IMSoP
    Commented Nov 4, 2021 at 17:05
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    @IMSoP: Indeed. What EXACTLY is the difference between intel's and amd's ISA, if any? Related: The most correct way to refer to 32-bit and 64-bit versions of programs my answer catalogues most of the official and actually-used names. Commented Nov 4, 2021 at 21:00
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    Btw the intel tag is a perfect burnination candidate that needs to be removed, like all other company name tags. It is ambiguous and fills no purpose - see the burnination of Apple, Microsoft etc tags.
    – Lundin
    Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 13:01
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    If this sticks, then to be consistent, they should also own x86-16, which incidentally is an ISA that they did actually design. Not that Intel engineers are probably that interested in the questions from people writing retro DOS code or real-mode boot sectors, but hey, they gotta take the bad with the good. For that matter, they should take intel-8080 and 8051 too. And itanium. Commented Nov 6, 2021 at 18:41

2 Answers 2

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The and (and ) tags should be removed from the Intel collective, but not because of who designed the ISA, or that other x86-64 vendors exist.

TL;DR: The real problem is that Intel is a big company that does lots of quite different things, and has software products that are of little interest to people that know about details of their CPU hardware (and vice versa).


The fact that AMD (and VIA) also make x86-64 CPUs is not really critical, nor is the fact that AMD architects designed the 64-bit extensions to x86. (See also: The most correct way to refer to 32-bit and 64-bit versions of programs) We do already have the ability to tag for performance questions specific to AMD microarchitectures (or their SIMD extensions like XOP). As discussed in comments, it's fine if a collective includes a tag that isn't exclusively relevant to that collective. Besides, most people using Intel tools to develop software don't want to stop it from running on AMD CPUs, and many actively do want it to be portable.

What's more relevant is that this collective currently includes and , which are most often tagged with , but the collective describes itself as being about Intel software and tools. e.g. their compilers, and , libraries like and , and even Intel builds/distributions of existing software like and 1.

The current description for the Intel Collective is:

A space for developers to collaborate on Intel software tools, libraries, and resources. Share knowledge and connect with Intel product experts. Find the information you need to drive innovation and simplify development from edge to cloud with Intel.

If "resources" include Intel's optimization manual, and "Intel Product Experts" include experts who know about Intel microarchitectures, then, yes, there's some overlap between that description and questions like Deoptimizing a program for the pipeline in Intel Sandybridge-family CPUs and Why does my Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake CPU incur a mysterious factor 3 slowdown in a simple hash table implementation? (Pipeline nukes because of the mechanism Intel CPUs use to provide TLB coherency, going beyond the on-paper specs).

But, if so, that's too broad. It makes little sense to lump that together with software stuff like and (computer-vision libraries and hardware) and (https://stackoverflow.com/collectives/intel?tab=tags).

Especially since many questions are actually about debugging and writing assembly programs, i.e. correctness problems and system call / library ABIs, and assembler syntax, not really relevant to performance or anything other than assembly-language hobbyists / beginners learning their way around. And about tools like assemblers, compilers, and disassemblers. So fully not relevant to people using Intel's performance libraries.

Assembly language / machine-code details are almost never relevant to higher-level stuff, so including them in the same collective as computer-vision, quicksync video tools, and so on, makes no sense. (So that definition of "resources" shouldn't include Intel's ISA manuals, either. That's basically its own thing, already well-covered by . And for hobby OS kernels, tags like and combined with or .)

If the collective wanted to include stuff that low-level, it should include , , and especially , since Intel is currently the only vendor selling CPUs with AVX-512 SIMD support. (But I don't think it should.) And Intel has an intrinsics guide, which is a pretty important "resource" for people writing code using them.


We should narrow the scope of the collective to match what was probably intended

Just Intel software / tools, not hardware (although that does still lump together computer-vision stuff with , and Intel profiling tools like ). I guess Collectives are supposed to be broader than tags—that's the whole point—but it seems too disparate.

There are some gray-area tags like which are clearly Intel-specific, but are generally about low-level details, even moreso than VTune.

The Collective is also missing (Software Guard Extensions) which is an Intel technology for running code in a protected "enclave", with some special toolchain support for building code to run in, and other code to communicate with it. That might actually be appropriate, especially if we're going to keep super-low-level stuff like (transactional memory) as part of the Intel Collective.

The fact that I'm currently at the top of the Intel Collective leaderboard since I joined it yesterday is basically a joke. I know of the existence of many of their libraries and things, but I've never used the TBB or MKL libraries, let alone their computer-vision stuff. If the leaderboard is dominated by people answering assembly / cpu-architecture / performance questions, it seems to make a mockery of what the whole thing was supposed to be about. (Especially assembly homework-debugging questions, although those don't get a lot of upvotes since they usually have near zero future value because the reason assembly beginners are having problems is that they don't know how to put pieces together in the first place, and thus can't break their problem down to a [mcve].)

Footnote 1: I don't know how many programming questions there can be about tags like or python; unless they extend the language / API with new functions. Questions are probably just about installing them, or get tagged because that's the version they happened to be using... But the existence of tags like that is off-topic for this meta Q&A.


Compared to other Collectives like Go

Unlike, for example, the Go Collective, where everything is in one programming language that all members of the Collective at least have in common, the current set of tags in the Intel Collective can easily include questions that have no relevance or interest to people interested in other questions in tags that are part of the same Collective.

Fortunately, the "Intel Collective" is just extra visual noise in the tag field, and at the top right of question pages. It doesn't actually result in showing you questions you don't want to see if you don't visit the Collective page. Therefore, its existence doesn't make anything substantially worse, and in that sense it doesn't matter what tags it includes.

If its existence can save us from people tagging on questions about things that already have more-specific tags like or , that's great. (In my opinion, the [intel] tag should be used for things like CPU microarchitecture questions that are about Intel CPUs specifically, e.g. with [cpu-architecture] and [x86]. Definitely not where another tag already has intel in the name)

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    "…most people using Intel tools to develop software don't want to stop it from running on AMD CPUs…" I see what you did there. :-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 5:18
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    I agree with your point that Intel Collective tag set is too broad, and current intention doesn't match [x86] tag. Probably it is more important that my initial concern. But to me, the ownership concern, which you stated as "don't want to stop it from running on AMD", still holds. I don't want that [x86] acquisition by Intel stopped from discussing AMD. Like imagine that an answer uses pdep and contains the usual Zen 1/2 warning, and then this Zen 1/2 part is removed as off-topic. Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 10:03
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    @AlexGuteniev: If I ever saw an edit like that, I'd roll it back. And raise a mod flag if the edit message was really something like "off topic for Intel x86". Collectives aren't more important than tags and don't change the meaning of tags, they're just a way to group existing tags together. (And if that ever changes in a bad way, I and probably other x86 performance folks would leave SO if SO policy became to remove AMD info from [x86] answers. I really can't see that happening, that's just so obviously terrible that nobody sane would ever go along with it, regardless of collectives.) Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 10:22
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    @PeterCordes "I really can't see that happening, that's just so obviously terrible that nobody sane would ever go along with it, regardless of collectives" - you've obviously never worked for a company that loves money, then...
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 15:01
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    @IanKemp: SO has pulled a lot of bullshit, but I think even they would realize that directly selling companies the ability to have people edit random existing answers to slant in their direction would be way past anything they've ever tried to push on the community in the past, to the point where the geese that lay golden eggs would leave. Maybe you're picturing this as the tail end of a very long slippery slope which you see SO going down, but I still say implausible, or lost cause in that case and not worth worrying about for the purpose of this meta Q&A: we'd all be gone. Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 15:16
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    @PeterCordes You don't seem to understand that having us "golden geese" leave is the intention of SE Inc. Because we aren't golden to them, we're annoying rabble who question their questionable decisions and hold them accountable. What we aren't are the things that do make them money: new users and corporate sponsorships (which is what Collectives are). The most important thing about SO to SE Inc. today is showing constant "growth" (via new user signups) and milking the Stack Overflow brand name for all it's worth - not the quality of the site's content.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 16:34
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    @PeterCordes Essentially, the slippery slope is just going to keep getting more and more slippery until SO is a revolving door of help vampires who create an account to post 1 gimme-teh-codez question, and a new account every time they need another "question" answered; and rep hunters who exist to do nothing but answer those "questions" because imaginary internet points are more important to them than personal integrity. That is the ultimate end-stage goal for SE Inc., to dumb the site down to a point where it is literally nothing but the stupid and the useless yelling at each other.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 16:38
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    @IanKemp: I don't think SO management is dumb enough to not realize that without people to write good answers, it won't be an attractive site to ask questions on in the first place. Regardless, whether SO eventually destroys itself or not isn't relevant to this meta question; if things get as bad as Alex is worried about ([x86] answers being edited to remove mention of AMD considerations), it won't matter because we'll already have left, and copied the useful CC-BY-SA content to somewhere else. Commented Nov 6, 2021 at 0:07
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Nick summed this up beautifully in their comment on the question. A collective does not “own” a tag; they have a significant association with the tag (legally, and technically). They fit our criteria for what we think justifies association. This does not exclude other collectives from using the tag. Other brands, such as AMD, that create a collective, would be able to have equal association.

This shouldn’t discourage any discussions around the tag that don’t directly include AMD or any other chips that utilize the architecture. Bergi also brought up a good point which is the tag doesn’t fit into this collective and we have removed it.

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    This does address my initial concern that arise when I first noticed this association; however, now I also join Peter's answer, do you have something to address it? Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 13:55
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    Thanks for handling the [jasmin-x86] issue!
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 5, 2021 at 16:22

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