-27

The answer in question is this:

https://stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/27366041

Image of deleted answer for less than 10k

I found no other way to object to it being flagged and then deleted. Not even to write to the moderator who did it about it. So I'll do it this way. Not that I care much about it being deleted, or even losing 100 from my reputation. That's life. But I want to express my disagreement.

It may be self-promotion, but, as one moderator, Trenton McKinney, admitted, it does answer the question. Even more, it is the only relevant answer the question has received in 3 years.

They say link-only answers are no good. What am I to do if this is the only relevant thing to say? The OP didn't ask how a product like WebLock is developed, he asked how he could do a specific job that happened to be solved very well with WebLock. Saying more would not have been of any help (assuming he'd still be interested in the answer).

If I didn't get the question right, then they should have said so. But I think I did, and it seems said moderator agrees.

Now, after he deleted my answer and lowered my reputation by 100, they also locked the question as being not up to the standards. How was I supposed to know this? When I answered it it was obviously not locked.

10
  • 15
    They aren't moderators... just users with the delete privilege. And even if it does answer the question, it's still self-promotion or spam. Whether or not it answers the question is then considered irrelevant.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:30
  • 5
    And link only answers are no good, even if they are the only possible. If that is the case, don't answer!. Also, one more thing, that comment from one of the delvoters is automatic.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:33
  • 7
    Note that Community was involved in the deletion, so it was deleted through flags as well. The two delvoters may not have agreed it was spam, or may not have noticed, but up to 6 people and/or a proper mod did think it was spam. Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:33
  • 3
    I cant see the deleted answer, but if it was indeed link only then it was correctly deleted. At the very least it should have explained how to use the tool to solve the problem as a list of instructions Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:34
  • 7
    The question is off-topic, the answer link only and promoting a non developer tool. Nothing of value was lost, I’m afraid.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:36
  • 5
    You've also severely misunderstood how the moderation system works. As already mentioned, Trenton isn't a moderator. We differentiate between people who moderate, and moderators - proper moderators are often called diamond moderators, and get their name from, well, having an emoji diamond appended to their name. At least three people (depending on votes), or one diamond moderator have to agree to deletion for it to be deleted - so don't put the blame on one person, because it's most certainly not the case here. Secondly, as I already mentioned, Community deletion indicates flag deletion. Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:37
  • 1
    Flag deletion is triggered when a post receives 6 spam and/or rude or abusive flags, or any number up to that in addition to a flag from a diamond moderator. Judging by votes, there's a reasonable chance a diamond moderator was involved in the spam hammering (spam flags also come with downvotes. If it was at -6 or less, then there's a chance it was a pure user deletion through flags. -3 indicates diamond intervention due to this mechanic) Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:39
  • 5
    FYI. Your Answer was identified by the system as "low quality", and it was added to the LQ Review queue. This attracted the attention of reviewers. This likely also resulted in the Question being closed yesterday (and rightly so).
    – toolic
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:40
  • 2
    see also: What is the policy regarding sparse self-promotion in answers?
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 20:41
  • 4
    “What am I to do if this is the only relevant thing to say?” - You move on to the next question without submitting an answer. At the end of the day, you were promoting your own project, without indicating that was the case. Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 21:12

3 Answers 3

42

You're not telling the full story here. There's a mod flag that does though. Does this answer look familiar?

Another spam answer

You now have multiple problems.

  1. Your answer is link-only
  2. You're promoting your own app here without disclosure. Check out the Help Center for why we don't permit that
  3. You posted that to two separate questions

That's spam in my book. You're lucky the above answer was merely deleted or you'd have lost 200 rep instead of 100.

19

I'm one of the users who initially handled your post, so I'll weigh in here.


Your answer was indeed a valid answer to the question. While it's true that answers that contain no information other than a link are subject to deletion, your answer IMO does not qualify for deletion under this policy because "try WebLock" is a valid answer even without the link.

However, whenever you are promoting your own product, you MUST ALWAYS DISCLOSE YOUR AFFILIATION with the product, in accordance with the site's self-promotion guidelines. This is not just a Stack Overflow policy but a matter of etiquette across the Internet in general -- promoting your own product without disclosing affiliation comes across as astroturfing and is considered deceptive. Additionally, you posted another self-promotional post within a just few minutes, again without disclosing affiliation.

Finally, both questions were old (not a good look, because it seems like you're fishing for places to promote your product) and off-topic (so the whole question is liable for deletion anyway).


The posts tripped some automated filters, bringing it to the attention of several reviewers including myself. I left a friendly comment explaining our self-promotion guidelines, and flagged the post for moderator review, about 30 minutes after it was posted if my memory is correct. About an hour later, it looks like a moderator reviewed the post and decided to deleted it as spam. In the meantime, the questions were both closed for being off-topic and will likely be deleted soon too.

So, the end result is that some off-topic questions were cleaned up, and you learned about the etiquette for self-promotion on the Internet. Sounds to me like the system worked exactly as intended.

3

Here's what happened after you posted your answer.

First, your answer was short, and only had a link, so the system thought it as Low Quality, and it entered the Low Quality posts review queue.

There, 2 users with the delete vote privilege voted to delete your answer. While this was happening, some users flagged it as spam. When users flag as spam, the Community♦ user automatically downvotes.

After reaching 6 red flags, your answer got automatically deleted by the 6 flags rule, which is why one of the delete voters is the Community user.

And as an FYI, try answering on-topic questions that can receive high-quality answers. Answers that are just a link may be flagged as Not an Answer and deleted. You could have added a little context around the link, but 1. It was self-promotion, and 2. The question was pretty low quality.

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  • 7
    Just FYI: The fact that it's deleted as spam (i.e. by the Community user as the last user that voted to delete and that the post is locked) and the post has fewer than 6 downvotes indicates that a moderator raised a spam flag to cause the post to be deleted.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 19:57
  • @Makyen Why not delete? I didnt know mods could raise spam flags.... what is the difference?
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 20:00
  • 3
    @10Rep A spam flag raised by a mod will automatically incur the spam penalty on the post author (as well as immediately delete the post.) A mod simply deleting a post through a unilateral delete vote will not accomplish the same thing.
    – Spevacus
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 20:04
  • 2
    @10Rep A spam or R/A flag from a moderator immediately deletes the post as spam or R/A, and imposes all the penalties associated with that (1 downvote, -100 rep, locking the post, adding the IP address to SpamRam, etc.). A moderator just clicking the "delete" button just deletes the post and does not impose those penalties. When just deleted, but with "helpful" spam or R/A flags, the post will still be hidden from view by users with 10k+ rep (i.e. they have to go to the revisions page to see the content).
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 20:05
  • Learned something new today, I guess. Thanks!
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 20:06
  • Just for information: I voted to delete during a review of the 'answer' (Low Quality Posts). Now, when doing so, a pop-up appears asking me if I want to leave a comment; however, if memory serves me well, I chose not to (at least one of the other comments was already there - not sure if a mod can confirm this). I didn't - at the time - judge it as spam, merely as "Link Only". However, having read this post (especially the answer from @Machavity), I would have added a "Spam" flag myself, had I known then what I know now! Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 20:10
  • 1
    @10Rep Mods can delete (sustains any flags on the post) or raise a red flag, which also sustains flags and acts like 6 red-flags, so they get the -100 penalty and feeds SpamRam to catch future instances.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Oct 13, 2020 at 20:12
  • OK, I've read all or most of the answers / comments and I'll reitarate a few points. 1. Most important: it was not spam. Whatever the mods or whatever they are thought or raised spam flags or whatever - it answered the question so it was no spam, by definition. Even if 6 or even 6000 users thought it was, they were wrong. This much seems pretty clear to me.
    – VSim
    Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 1:37
  • Second, you've got at least 2 problems here. One, community-moderated things like this have the downside that the mob often gets things wrong. There has to be somebody that is well qualified and has the final say. Even democracy, as flawed as it is, doesn't work at all without the Supreme Court.
    – VSim
    Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 1:42
  • And the second problem - what do you do when a post is on topic, so not spam, but it is self-promotion. I agree it was, no contest here. Seems to me it was deleted not as self-promotion, but as spam - which it wasn't. Looks like you need to clarify the rules here.
    – VSim
    Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 1:43
  • 2
    @VSim You need to declare affiliation. You didn't say, "Hey this is my product!". Secondly, even if you did, your answer was a little more than a link, so it would have been deleted as link only.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 1:44
  • Lastly, if 6000 users thought your answer was spam, then it was spam. You aren't the supreme decide of this. The community is. Majority therefore wins.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 1:45
  • 2
    @VSim Whether or not you faced that problem is irrelevant. It doesn't contribute anything to StackOverflow. So it got closed since it is off-topic as defined in the help center.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 1:46
  • 1
    Are you trying to say that the people who DO contribute are wasting their time helping developers like you? When you google some syntax or an error, SO is what is helping you. It's not a ton. Asking a question or answering a question is not rocket science, it's quite simple. And if you don't like the way the site is run, then maybe this isn't the place for you. It's as simple as that.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 1:53
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    “what do you do when a post is on topic, so not spam, but it is self-promotion.” - You disclose your connection to the project. If your not willing to do that, do not submit the answer, your answer was treated as spam because you didn’t provide that disclosure. You also resubmitted the same answer to multiple questions. Why? That isn’t Kosher behavior ever Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 3:35

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