Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
In case you were wondering, the irony of that was not lost on me.
It is the opinion of the moderation team that this change is overdue. If you have compelling arguments against it, please post an answer below. We want this to happen.
This proposal comes in the wake of the last few days/weeks, most recently culminating in quite a few posts, and a discussion around comments and their place here on meta.
I've noticed that there's quite a bit of confusion and disagreement with regards to how meta should be moderated, and in particular, how comments on meta should be moderated. And so thought that it might be best if I made this formal proposal on how I think we should move forward.
TL;DR - I propose that we moderators take a more hands-on approach with regards to meta moderation, which is a change from the established status-quo. Specifically, I propose that moderators take a more active role in outright removing derailing, snarky, and non-constructive comments. I also propose that moderators should encourage extended discussion to be moved to chat more.
Intro
Here are a few facts, as I see them (I might be wrong, call me out on it if you disagree)
- Staff, and sometimes moderators, are reluctant to go on meta. Cited reasons are toxicity, users ganging up on "bearers of bad news", hostility.
- Threads with 100+ comments on them are a relatively common occurrence on meta, especially with high traffic posts.
- Comments not being a great tool for extended discussions have been deathly discussed and agreed upon.
Here are some of my observations, they aren't necessarily facts, just how I see things.
- The people of meta are, for the most part, passionate about the site, and are genuinely interested in making the site better.
- The people of meta want, for the most part, a constructive collaboration between the community and the company, but don't necessarily know how to make it happen, or even, they don't see it happening.
I can pinpoint two specific issues, that make discussions on meta get out of hand
- Comments that aim at ranting or otherwise derailing the conversation. This includes but not limited to: Snarky comments about how the company won't fix the issue no matter what we say, comments focusing on other comments (and not the discussion itself), comments that attempt to branch the discussion to talk about a different issue.
- Relevant discussion that is extended beyond what's reasonable. This one is a bit vaguer, but it's generally easy to see when comments should be moved to chat. We see chat-like behavior in comment threads all the time (comments within seconds of one another, replying to one another, etc.)
The current
The current policy of meta moderation is relatively hands-off. While overt nastiness and spam are handled by the moderators (and sometimes the community itself), discussions are generally left to their own devices, to run wild.
We rolled with this situation for quite a while now, and I don't think it was the wrong decision to make at the time it was made. However, I do think this isn't quite working out anymore.
My Proposal
I propose that moderators take a more active role in moderating meta. With rules and policies similar to what we apply to comments on the main site.
Off-topic comments are to be deleted.
If you have an issue with an implication from a comment (for example, a staff member or a moderator saying something that you think contradicts policy), please make a new meta question, and link to the original comment/post.
Comments that attempt to derail the conversation have no place here. No matter how well and nice they are put. Stay on topic, please.
- Comments that primarily rant have no place here. We are aware of the frustration, this is a situation we found ourselves in and we want to extricate ourselves from. Being non-constructive does not help that goal.
Extended discussions are to be moved to chat.
- Comments are there primarily for clarification of points on the primary post. If you agree/disagree with the post in question, vote on it, and optionally post an answer.
- Chat-like behavior (rapid-fire back-and-forth comments, lots of comments in a short time) is a good indicator of when the discussion should be moved to chat.
The points above are nothing new, the proposal itself is that moderators take a more active role in enforcing these policies.
This means a few more concrete things:
- Under this proposal, moderators will be more proactive in moderating comments, even when flags are not necessarily present. This is because meta receives much fewer flags than main, and it's a weaker signal for us to follow currently. Which leads to the next point. At the time of this writing, the meta flag queue is standing at 0. Imagine that :)
- Under this proposal, we ask you to flag more often. Try to be objective and constructive. Do you think that a particular comment truly doesn't add anything to the discussion? Do you feel like the discussion is going too fast to reasonably follow with comments? Does this discussion generate too many comments? Please flag and let us know.
I think the current state of things are actively harmful to meta and its regular conduct. Staff members are afraid of coming here. Regular users are afraid of coming here. This situation is not OK.
Let's make meta a more professional place, with less noise and more signal. I think that we've been running hands-off like this up until now and it's time we make this change.
*forever is a very long time, in effect, even in the case this proposal does get implemented, you can always make a new meta post about it ;)