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So, I read this question yesterday and I posted a suggestion in an answer (now deleted) which I'm going to re-post here.

The OP of that question addressed the fact that the "Help and Improvement" queue is usually filled with posts that can't actually be improved by editing and requires a clarification by the author. I think we all agree that that's indeed quite common.

I believe a big part of the problem is caused by new reviewers not understanding the available review options (specifically in the triage queue) and mistakenly assuming that Requires Editing means "requires editing by the author" because they didn't (have to) read the guidelines.

I will admit I was guilty of this one day. When I first started reviewing, I used to choose Requires Editing when I thought the author should edit the question because it's not clear. I used to think that's what it meant until I quickly realized it didn't make much sense and decided to read the guidelines which I had overlooked.

Even though the explanation of the Requires Editing option has been changed a while ago, I still believe it could be misleading, not to mention that some reviewers might not even read it. The guidelines, on the other hand, make it crystal clear that:

Do not choose "Requires Editing" if you know the question cannot be made answerable without clarification or additions from its author.

My suggestion:

I think that these guidelines (probably a shortened version) should be presented in something similar to the style of the Tour page (or the new CoC page) and that this new page gets displayed to users who earn the "Access Review Queues" privilege when they try to access the review queues for the first time so that they have to go through it before they can proceed and start reviewing.

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    Given that 80-90% of H&I reviews get skipped, I think a better idea is to get rid of this queue altogether. Will require restructuring Triage too. Community seems to agree: 1, 2.
    – jpp
    Commented Aug 13, 2018 at 8:40
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    @jpp I agree that 80-90% of H&I reviews get skipped or marked as VLQ. However, I disagree that the solution is to get rid of it. Why not improve it? The community also seems to agree: 1, 2. I believe that most of the review problems exist because users start reviewing without actually knowing how to review, hence, my suggestion, which can also be used to cover all the options in the main 3 review queues although the most important one, IMO, is the Triage > Requires Editing > H&L cycle.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Aug 13, 2018 at 15:26
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    Just get rid the h&I, then revert triage to a Low Quality Questions review queue type state and raise the barrier for entry to that of the Low Quality Posts review queue (which would then need to be renamed to Low Quality Answers)
    – user4639281
    Commented Aug 13, 2018 at 16:26
  • It seems like one obvious first step to take is to improve the Triage audits, which tend to be pretty bad in my experience. I found them to be mostly spam or well-written upvoted questions, so the only way someone would typically fail them is if they were robo-reviewing by actually not reading the question, and always clicking the same button.
    – Radiodef
    Commented Aug 13, 2018 at 20:34
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    While it's certainly desirable for new users to learn the correct way to review, that's only part of the problem. Posts which could only be improved via the author editing them have been flooding the H&I queue for a very long time. There are lots of reviewers who learned to review based on the old, inaccurate guidelines, which were only changed < 4 months ago. Without actively bringing it, very clearly, to people's attention, this is something that will, at best, take a long time to correct. Effectively, many people will view it being a "community" edit, as a change (even though it's not).
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Aug 13, 2018 at 21:06
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    While your FR would be beneficial, I'd rather see A) The "Requires Editing" button changed to "Requires Community Editing"; and B) Increase the number of audits in Triage, specifically including ones which should be categorized as "Unsalvageable". For such audits, it's probably a good idea to use questions which were in Triage, went to H&I, and were closed without being edited.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Aug 13, 2018 at 21:08
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    I also used Requires Editing button incorrectly when I first got access to triage. It seemed self-explanatory so I didn't bother reading the guidelines. Turns out it's not self-explanatory at all and it should be made MUCH clearer.
    – Clonkex
    Commented Aug 14, 2018 at 3:02
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    re the meaning of "Requires Editing" being unclear – could we just add a new button that says something like "Needs More Information" which acts exactly like Unsalvageable?
    – ash
    Commented Aug 14, 2018 at 10:54
  • s/Requires Editing/Requires Formatting/ ? Commented Aug 14, 2018 at 22:34
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    @PatrickMevzek: It's not just formatting. Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 5:23
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3 Answers 3

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Putting aside debates about whether this queue or the Help & Improvement queues are useful, the "Requires Editing" function as it exists is poorly conceived. Even if we give the queues the benefit of the doubt, I see two major problems from the get go.

The Name

"Requires Editing" is an utterly useless name. Virtually every post on SO could stand some kind of editing. This button's name is so broad that it's really no wonder that it's misused so much.

There's a fairly obvious solution to this staring us in the face. Directly to the right of the "Requires Editing" button is a button named "Unsalvageable." Directly to the left is "Looks Okay." The obvious progression here is from "Looks OK" to "Salvageable" to "Unsalvageable." "Salvageable" is a fantastic name for this button; it correctly connotes that the post has major issues but that something can be done to bring it back into shape and provides consistency with the button next to it.

What needs fixing?

A triage reviewer is supposed to go through the trouble of identifying the problems with a post and determining whether someone other than the OP can fix them. If the reviewer is identifying the problems, why in the world isn't the result of that research being noted anywhere? When you mark a post as "Unsalvageable," you have to identify the problem; the problem type is then converted to a flag or close vote. But when you hit "Requires Editing," that's it. No indication of the nature of the problem the reviewer found is recorded anywhere.

It would be much better if the button prompted the user to identify the nature of the problem(s). Nathan Tuggy has already expressed the solution to this that comes to mind. Having users specify the problems they spot would provide 3 immediate improvements:

  • Reviewers in Triage are given examples of what sorts of problems are expected to qualify for this status.
  • There's an obvious place for more explanatory text. (E.g., "Only choose this status if someone other than the author can fix the problems.")
  • Reviewers in Help & Improvement can find some indication of what they should be looking for to fix, saving them time performing that evaluation again.

There's not currently really a "place" for this info to go. If we wanted some kind of quick fix on that front, the result could be shoved into a generated comment. It'd certainly be better than nothing.

I think this would also be helpful in identifying where questions fall in sort of a weird place between Salvageable and Unsalvageable. Users would be more likely to post on Meta asking questions about them if they don't fit one place more cleanly than the other. This might even help us start more discussions about the kinds of problems we're seeing in posts.

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    +1 for "Reviewers in Help & Improvement can find some indication of what they should be looking for to fix, saving them time performing that evaluation again". This can be helpful in cases like "misspelled word in title", etc.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Aug 16, 2018 at 1:58
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    @AhmedAbdelhameed In theory, something as trivial as a title spelling error by itself would probably go under "Looks OK," and then hopefully the reviewer would just go and fix it outside the queue.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Aug 16, 2018 at 7:33
  • Great idea. There should still be a custom "Salvageable" reason IMO, for the cases where the custom "Salvageable" reasons don't apply. Commented Aug 16, 2018 at 8:55
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I have a general, but fundamental, issue with how Triage interacts with H&I. My premise1 is that potential improvements are not subject matter specific. You may change some tags around, or correct some spelling, code formatting or layout.

Why do you need 2 people to make this assessment?

One person takes their time to look through the post in Triage to identify, "Yes, there are several non-trivial changes which can be made to the post by someone other than OP."

Then someone else finds the same post in the H&I queue and has to make that same assessment. In addition, they have to actually make the changes.2

There is clear overlap in what reviewers are doing across these two queues. Good reviews take time, and reviewers' time is precious. So I stand by my initial comment: don't spend time fixing an inefficient process. The workflow as a whole should be restructured.


1 As exhibited in this list of improvements possible via H&I.

2 There's a counter-argument to say that the Triage reviewer only has to find one error that someone other than the OP can conceivably correct. But, in my mind, this is insufficient. For instance, an irrelevant spelling error doesn't warrant being passed to the H&I queue at all. In many cases, there's still a need to read the entire question carefully.

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  • The idea was that Triage is just a quick sorting process, inspired by battlefield medicine. I note that the analogy goes wrong on Unsalvageable - that still asks the reviewer to make another choice, whereas in battlefield triage, the mortally wounded soldier would not receive more help. (Well, apart from painkillers and spiritual services, one would hope...) Commented Aug 16, 2018 at 9:27
  • @S.L.Barth, Yeh, I think that was the idea. But I don't think snap judgements are always useful. What if there are serious formatting / spelling / grammar errors in the last paragraph of a post where the question is actually being asked? One good review is better than 2 half-hearted ones, and will probably take less time.
    – jpp
    Commented Aug 16, 2018 at 9:29
  • Unsalvageable doesn't trigger more help, though, does it? It starts the process of closure/deletion. In the framework of the triage analogy, posts don't die on their own here; they have to be killed.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Aug 16, 2018 at 17:57
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Temporarily ban people from the Triage queue if too many of the questions they mark as "Requires editing" are closed (indicating that the questions should have been marked as "Unsalvageable"), except for questions closed as duplicates.

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  • Hmm, not sure I agree with that. A question might "require editing" from the reviewer's point of view but ends up being closed for other reasons (e.g., a duplicate that the reviewer isn't aware of).
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Aug 23, 2018 at 11:16

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