-37

This question and this one on Meta Stack Overflow highlight a not uncommon case in which a new programmer truly can't figure out what the next step is for solving a simple programming problem.

In such cases, the best response would be to provide helpful hints that don't fully answer the question, but allow the questioner (or anyone else in the same state who reads the question later) to think through the answer on their own. This is much more beneficial to new programmers than actually giving them the answer.

It would be good if such "hint" answers could be given a status like that of answers. Right now, you could put a hint in an answer, but it would be (rightfully, given the guidelines) downvoted. Or you could put it in a comment, in which case it may be deleted, and you can't get any official credit for it.

I think there should be a new category of response called "hint" or "tip". These could be upvoted and downvoted. They probably should receive fewer points per vote than true answers. Perhaps whenever someone adds a "hint" response, the text of real answers should be hidden until a user clicks on them.

This answer to the second of the two questions linked above states that providing hints in this way so that users can learn is not part of the purpose of Stack Overflow. But why not? As it is, Stack Overflow is slightly detrimental to budding programmers when it provides full answers to their ignorant but innocent questions. Adding a "hint" answer option would be beneficial to the community.

8
  • 18
    How does that align with the "we want to be a repository of high level coding knowledge, not a tutorial or mentoring website" goal of Stack? It feels like we would be taking a step in the opposite direction....
    – Patrice
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 15:55
  • 9
    We are not a tutoring website. If you want hints, go elsewhere. This is a question and answer site.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 15:58
  • 3
    An interesting approach that could help alleviate some of the problems we have with new users, but as Patrice says, it's counter to the goal of having a library of clear-cut questions and answers. If you want to help someone with a hint that doesn't fit the Q&A model, post a comment.
    – Pekka
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 16:07
  • 1
    them Math folks...
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 16:31
  • I don't want hints. I want people to learn to code. @Patrice 'How does that align with the "we want to be a repository of high level coding knowledge, not a tutorial or mentoring website" goal of Stack?': What is the purpose of providing such a repository? Is it just to sit there as a thing of beauty? It's there so people can learn. That's the point. And some answers interfere with learning. So the goal you have stated, even if it's SO's stated goal, is not its (unstated) meta-goal, it seems to me.
    – Mars
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:16
  • I don't think we should say that new programmers should not ask questions when they are simply lost. That seems to be implied by "high level coding knowledge"; I don't think that a large percentage of questions should be closed and deleted as "too basic". Mission statements ....
    – Mars
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:17
  • Well this is where you disagree with the community and the consensus it achieved over time. Coders who are simply lost should ask questions, sure. Do they have to ask here? No. Also notice I don't say "new coders who are lost". Being new has nothing to do with this. It's the question itself that is the issue. All in all seems like you disagree with the decision Stack made about what it wants to be...
    – Patrice
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 21:38
  • @Patrice I accept whatever the SO or SE community decides. I take the community to be open to discussion of suggested revisions. That's all I'm offering. The downvotes my post is receiving, along with votes on answers below, are more significant to me than whatever the community decided at one time in the past. (I guess I also think the votes on the meta posts by "them Math folks" that gnat linked to are significant, too, but only for Math.SE, not for SO.)
    – Mars
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 22:11

2 Answers 2

10

The community will judge whether or not your answer is good given the context it's provided; if they feel that a hint is better than just a code dump they'll vote accordingly. (Honestly, code dumps are bad. Don't do them.)

Marking solutions as "hints" only underscores the point that users are more than willing to copy and paste whole code blocks from here thinking that it will do everything for them; my opinion on that is to let them do so not bother implementing any technical solution to a problem that's more cultural than technical, and see how far it actually gets them.

5
  • I'm not contrasting hints with code dumps that lack explanation. A hint leaves out information in order to help the questioner figure it out for him/herself, while a full answer provides a full solution and an explanation of what's going on it.
    – Mars
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:09
  • What's the difference, really? Is telling the person that they're going to need a little bit more information to solve their problem really all that substantially different than what we've got going on? Again I maintain that if a user wants to just take these things from the internet and copy them in without doing due diligence, they can do that; I just refuse to agree that dev time should be burned on making it obvious that they're doing so.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:20
  • I'm not suggesting Googling for those who won't. A hint lets a person figure out what they will be able to figure out with just a little nudge in the right direction. If they're that lost, it will take a long time for a web search to get anywhere. Full disclosure: I get paid to teach. (And also do it for free on SO. :-) Any good teacher knows that giving a student the answer is sometimes bad for them. Otherwise, teachers could just say "The answer's in the back of the book. No need to turn it in; I've already seen it!"
    – Mars
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:27
  • You gravely misunderstand me. We're already providing hints. Even "full solutions" are hints. We're not putting any sort of guarantee or anything behind it; we've ultimately done the research at some point in our careers and are making a definitive assertion based on what we know. However, that doesn't mean that we're always correct, especially for someone else's specific needs. Making this any more obvious doesn't seem worth the effort to me.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:30
  • Sorry for misunderstanding @Makoto. I understand. I am using "hint" in a more restricted sense.
    – Mars
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:31
-10

@Mars commented on this answer with something that really needs to be addressed and is perhaps the root of this problem:

I don't mind that some additional information has to end up in comments. That makes it clear who provided what. I don't mind not getting points for that kind of semi-answer, either. Although the fact that comments can be deleted at any time is bad.

My response to that: There are many people who commonly mass delete or mass move-to-chat any comments that they can try to call discussion-like, no matter how helpful it is to the post. So there needs to be a decision made; either

  1. comments need to be raised up to at least 2nd-class-citizen status (they're currently not even that) and stop being so strict about them
  2. edits which provide necessary information should stop being denied on the grounds that the information is not in the spirit of the original author's post
  3. we need another way to communicate crucial information, a way such as OP suggests, or some other way if anyone has a better idea

The alternative, how things are, sometimes causes SO to be a source of bad information. That might be a large exception to the rule, but it is an exception that should be stamped out and made non-existent. I don't think any of you wants SO to get a bad rap like that of Wikipedia. I cannot count the number of times I have encountered people who shun Wikipedia because "anyone can put bad information there, and it happens all the time."

I think OP's idea is good, especially if it is put forward more generically than just for hints. Sometimes contributions can be very useful, even vital to formulating a full answer, but are not actually answers on their own.

On some SE sites, I have even seen cases where nobody had a good answer but they worked together in the comments to come to an answer together. Perhaps this could be done in chat instead, but hiding something away in chat makes it more distant and less useful. I, for one, generally access SE from some places where the chat does not work. Even if it did work, I am more likely to not click a link to chat. Not clicking links is common; many studies have shown that many users minimize link clicks in websites. If it is worth reading, it should be on the same page as the rest of the Q&A.

There are also times where it just would not make sense to go to chat. Sometimes a fine answer could benefit tremendously from added information or from a notice about a pitfall or the like. Editing is not always an option if you are not the answerer. I have edited vital information into accepted answers before only to have it rejected by reviewers for changing the answer in ways that the author did not obviously intend. If I cannot add words into the author's mouth, no matter if the edit is important or not, then there should be another way to alert people of something that they need to know.

If comments are going to continue being 3rd class non-citizens on StackExchange, then there really ought to be another way to add information, whether that information is a homework hint, an optimization tip, or a notice "This answer is good, but beware this dangerous pitfall that its corner-case has!" There needs to be some feature like this, otherwise we are sometimes doing the community a dis-service instead of a service.

Other pros: I have seen meta posts about obsolete answers which are no longer good because of changes over time in the technology, but due to getting +100 early on other answers just cannot compete (and similar cases, like bad answers that occasionally get a flood of up-votes by the masses that share a common misconception), but if there were some way to mark up a post with something more concrete than a comment then this would bring attention to the important information.

1
  • I don't mind that some additional information has to end up in comments. That makes it clear who provided what. I don't mind not getting points for that kind of semi-answer, either. Although the fact that comments can be deleted at any time is bad.
    – Mars
    Commented Jul 6, 2017 at 20:11

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .