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I saw this edit review: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/16009815

The editor wanted to add code the OP had at http://rextester.com/

According to this answer we shouldn't be allowing people to edit code from jsFiddle into questions because:

What the editor did is wrong, because it copied content he did not own into a question which is under CC-BY-SA. This could theoretically allow other people to legally use code that the OP specifically did not want to allow (jsFiddle does not impose any kind of license, and all the copyright rights remain to the sole author of the snippet).

A comment on the same answer states:

Pastebin content is CC-BY-SA, so unlike jsFiddle, it's fine to reuse Pastebin...

I could not find any license information at rextester. I've skipped reviewing that question but I would think that in the absence of any license information I should assume the strictest copyright applies and edits adding that content should be rejected. Am I correct?

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  • 4
    I'm not sure if it deserved acceptal or denial, but no license = copyright IIRC. (IANAL, though.)
    – ave
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 19:44
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    @TravisJ You're specifically advocating copying content that you don't have the licence to do so, and applying a new, rather liberal, licence to it when you don't have the authority to do so. That's ill intent.
    – Servy
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 20:03
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    If material is in public domain from author A, linked from author A, and then placed in author A's post where they also linked from, there is no issue there. Moreover, it was author A's intent to share the material in question.
    – Travis J
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 20:33
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    @TravisJ One doesn't need to be a lawyer to state that you can't copy copyrighted works and apply additional licenses to said content when you aren't the copyright holder. Saying that you're not a lawyer doesn't excuse actively advocating ignoring copyright just because you want to. That someone is hosting some code on a website doesn't make that code in the public domain. Were it explicitly in the public domain, that would be different. That they linked to it does not give you the right to copy the content, or to apply additional licences to it.
    – Servy
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 20:36
  • 13
    @TravisJ You realize that if your argument is correct, all code on Stack Overflow is also public domain, as well as anything on GitHub or pretty well hosted anywhere that is crawled. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems pretty obvious that you're wrong.
    – user4639281
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 21:21
  • 20
    "A snippet exposed to a crawler is in essence public domain". That's pretty far from what the law thinks. There are probably thousands of articles explaining that; here's the first one I found publicdomainsherpa.com/…
    – Paul Roub
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 21:29
  • 1
    There was a missing caveat to this situation, as well as in my comment. The site in question has no license, and as such the implication is only moral rights (as in retain credit for authorship which is being done here). So @Tiny and Paul you are correct to point that out. It should have read, "an unlicensed snippet exposed to a crawler is in essence public domain".
    – Travis J
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 21:47
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    "The site in question has no license, and as such the implication is only moral rights". Please say this to a lawyer and film their response. Wait until they're drinking something.
    – Paul Roub
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 21:56
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    I'm not sure if this applies to code outside of GitHub, but it states: "You're under no obligation to choose a license. However, without a license, the default copyright laws apply, meaning that you retain all rights to your source code and no one may reproduce, distribute, or create derivative works from your work." If that applies to all code snippets found on the internet, then it seems that unless there is a license, you should assume that you cannot do anything with the code. Personally, that makes sense to me. @TravisJ
    – user4639281
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 22:05
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    Here is another source that suggests the default is to assume all rights reserved (no copying allowed). It seems to me that a good way to look at it is that a license doesn't restrict you from doing things, it allows you to do those things where they would otherwise not be allowed.
    – user4639281
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 22:08
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    @TravisJ it's less us enforcing their copyright, and more us not actively violating their copyright
    – user4639281
    Commented May 2, 2017 at 23:01
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    @TinyGiant - If we asked the OP who linked his code, he would probably tell you he didn't want to post a wall of code. That is the main issue here, not the broader issue of copyright, of which there is basically never consensus on meta.
    – Travis J
    Commented May 3, 2017 at 0:22
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    @TravisJ then you should inform them of why we want it in the question and possibly point them to a relevant meta post or help center article. You should not violate the copyright even if it is on their behalf. How can you even be certain that the author of the question is the copyright / license holder?
    – user4639281
    Commented May 3, 2017 at 1:39
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    Do note that the folks over on Code Review have already had this exact same debate out and concluded that no, edits cannot add code from a 3rd party site because of licensing problems. Any edit that attempts to do so (from anyone other than the question's original author) should be rejected. I can't see a compelling reason why we need to rehash this policy here, since our licenses are identical. See: codereview.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/467 and codereview.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/548, codereview.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1308, among others.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented May 3, 2017 at 8:32
  • 2
    @TylerH if the author of the questions wants to supply the code themselves, then its their problem. If they havent posted it here, there may be a reason for that, in which case their question is just off topic.
    – user4639281
    Commented May 5, 2017 at 2:25

2 Answers 2

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Preface: IANAL, but I have been reading about software copyright law issues for many years, and I claim to "know a bit" about the subject.

Material that you find on the internet is not in the public domain by default, The public domain has a specific meaning in (US) copyright law (ref Wikipedia) which is (in layman's terms):

In the sense of intellectual property, works in the public domain are those whose exclusive intellectual property rights have expired, have been forfeited, or are inapplicable. For example, the works of Shakespeare and Beethoven, and most of the early silent films, are all now in the public domain by either being created before copyrights existed or leaving the copyright term. Examples for works not covered by copyright which are therefore in the public domain, are the formulae of Newtonian physics, cooking recipes, and all software before 1974. Examples for works actively dedicated into public domain by their authors are reference implementations of cryptographic algorithms, NIH's ImageJ, and the CIA's World Factbook. The term is not normally applied to situations where the creator of a work retains residual rights, in which case use of the work is referred to as "under license" or "with permission".

For material that you find on the internet, the author or the publisher typically has (at least) residual rights. The material is NOT in the public domain in the sense of copyright law, unless one of the above applies.

In most cases where material is published on the internet, there is an explicit statement somewhere of the terms under which people may copy the material. The problem arises when there is no explicit statement of permission; e.g. no software license. In that case, the courts would probably recognize an implied right for people to view (legally published) material using normal means. However, that is about the limit of it1. All other rights are implicitly reserved if there is no explicit copyright statement.

This means that it is technically a copyright violation to copy someone's unlicensed code into their question.

Whether someone could successfully sue Stack Exchange because a user did that is a different matter. There are all sorts of legal arguments that could be made in mitigation, not least that the actual damage to the copyright holder caused by the copyright violation is de minimus. The DMCA "safe harbor" rules may also apply, provided that Stack Exchange promptly takes down offending material when notified.

However, it is still a bad idea for people to do this. And it is unnecessary. If the OP doesn't copy his code into his Question when prompted to, there is a straightforward remedy: vote to close the Question, and move on.

In short, you are correct.


1 - This does not extend to reverse engineering URLs, scraping websites without permission, using 3rd-party tools to download videos from Youtube, and so in. These are all most likely copyright violations. Or worse.


Concerning the rextester case, there are a couple of other issues with that site that make this question a legal minefield.

  • The snippets that people want to copy are derivative works of 1) the regex author and 2) the author of the rextester code templates. Probably, both parties have residual rights.
  • There is no (obvious) way to identify the regex author.
  • There appear to be no explicit Terms and Conditions for the rextester site to clarify the copyright issues.
  • Placing something into the "public domain" is actually legally complicated.

The combination of these make it extremely uncertain who has residual copyright over the snippets, whether the site owner can (legally) place the snippets into the public domain, and whether a simple statement on his website like the one in his Answer would be sufficient. I would advise the site owner to talk to a copyright law professional; e.g. a lawyer. Get this sorted out by a professional.

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    Note that your usage of "public domain" is the American legal definition. English&Welsh legal usage is completely different. It means "known publicly" and is nothing to do with copyright. (In that sense, stuff on the web is "public domain".) Commented May 4, 2017 at 13:34
  • 1
    My point is that it is not "the legal sense" - it is "the American legal sense". The legal sense in E&W is different (and I carefully refer to E&W because Scotland has a completely different legal system). Commented May 4, 2017 at 15:40
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    @MartinBonner While you are correct, this whole thing is complicated enough without trying to address what it means for all the different countries that access Stack Overflow - and I'm not trying to be overtly US-centric, but I would argue that because Stack Overflow is a US-based company, the American legal definition is the most apropos.
    – Ajean
    Commented May 4, 2017 at 20:36
  • @Ajean: That would be a slippery slope. StackOverflow would very much like to not be a party in a copyright dispute between the copyright owner and the copyright violator. And if the original author is from say Burundi and the copyright violator is from Brazil, it is entirely unclear why American law would apply.
    – MSalters
    Commented May 5, 2017 at 8:23
  • @MSalters Well, that's why I said apropos, not binding or necessarily applicable. I was just making the point that the objection raised in Martin Bonner's comment could easily be raised about any country, and is therefore not terribly constructive IMO. Unless you really want this answer to try and address all the legal options, which is silly given that this is not a legal document. Addressing the massive bulk of what will probably apply is good enough in this context.
    – Ajean
    Commented May 5, 2017 at 14:41
  • +1 for "Placing something into the "public domain" is actually legally complicated." So much so that the CC0 license was created specifically to short-circuit the legal complexities of true "Public Domain" for those who wish to release their work as such in all jurisdictions.
    – jmbpiano
    Commented May 5, 2017 at 15:54
1

I'm the maintainer of rextester and I thought that by default if no license is indicated it's public domain. It seems to be the opposite however. I've added notification on the about page "All code snippets that are accessible to general public (it's not indicated they are private while saving them) are in the public domain."

So it should be ok now, at least with new snippets.

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    This doesn't seem like the appropriate approach to the issue. Commented May 3, 2017 at 15:28
  • 17
    I don't see that notice anywhere on the page in question. You can't bury it on the About page and expect it to apply. I'm not even sure if a statement like this is sufficient; you'd need to ask a lawyer.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented May 4, 2017 at 9:30
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    In addition, licensing stuff people put up prior to such a notice retroactively may not be legal. Commented May 4, 2017 at 13:33
  • 18
    While I support the attempt, this is legally (almost) useless. The copyright belongs to the author (or their employer), the copyright owner cannot be assumed to have agreed to license stuff - it has to be overt. The new license terms certainly don't apply retrospectively. Commented May 4, 2017 at 13:39
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    @ren - We cannot accept your word that "it should be OK". This is a legal issue, and you are not a legal expert. Only a real legal expert can tell us if what you have done makes it OK. The original author of the regex has not given his / her permission to copy. My understanding is that he / she has residual copyright in the derived work that your site is producing. IANAL TTAL
    – Stephen C
    Commented May 4, 2017 at 14:13
  • 3
    Even a lawyer will point out that he can only give opinions whether it's legal (as the courts decide), so let's not get hung up on the IANAL. As a software professional with training in IP laws, I can confirm that this statement is insufficient to place either past of future contributions in the public domain. Follow the StackOverflow and PasteBin solution for future contributions, and demand a CC-BY-SA license from your contributors.
    – MSalters
    Commented May 5, 2017 at 8:29
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    @MSalters I mean if the author wants to use the public domain rather than CC-by-SA, that is something they could do. You're not obligated to use CC's licences (particularly considering they're not designed for code in the first place, so it is in fact a fairly poor choice of licence).
    – Servy
    Commented May 5, 2017 at 13:31

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