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Several of my flags aged aways these days.

I know we should re-flag questions when we think that's appropriate. So I went forward and restarted the tedious flagging process. As I never did that before (flags never get to the point of ageing away at CrossValidated, for example), I was surprised I couldn't actualy reflag (as in the option is greyed out). So I flagged the questions for moderation attention. Two got accepted, four rejected:

"declined - flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention"

Great. Insta-ban from flagging.

I now (edit: to clarify, I mean after being banned, I didn't know it beforehand and no one would know it presumably since it's not made clear to the user) know re-flagging is only allowed after 14 days: Re-flag aged away flags with the same flag reason.

As I made explicit I was only asking for moderation intervention because the system didn't allow me to reflag, I expected at least some orientation, and "disputed" instead of "declined" (Servy corrected me, through moderation intervention this would be impossible).

Now I'm totally not wasting my time with some of these flags as I know they will age away anyway, and I won't bother to look 14 days after the event, that is, ~1 month after I flagged them, to reflag them.

I think reflagging as a desirable behavior is well established on meta, so:

The questions for discussion are

  • Could the moderation make it clearer reflagging should wait some time?
  • Moderation intervention is out of the question here?
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    Dontflaganagedawayflag.com flag it, forget about it, and move forward!! This is the desired behavior here on SO (from my experience) and don't bother too much about getting that question closed at any cost!!
    – techspider
    Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 20:28

2 Answers 2

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IMO, moderation should make clear the process of re-flagging. Period.

This whole thing (including the insta-ban) is just a big "don't waste your time to improve the site" for me. I'm completely not wasting my time with these anymore, and I think many resonate this feeling, flagging only the ones that will not age away.

The time to re-flag must be changed depending on the type of the flag raised, I (and presumable no one that values their precious time) won't bother to re-check flags 1 month after raising a flag.

As I'm no way associated with StackExchange, this is only my own opinion.


Regarding the answer by @Servy, no, the moderation didn't make clear. There are several views in meta (both here and on meta.SE itself) putting forward re-flagging as a good option after raised flags age away. Nowhere it says one would have to wait an arbitrary amount of days to do what everyone advises one to do. This should be made clear: I went to re-flag as everyone tells me to do, system doesn't allow me to do it, I use the only other apparent alternative (i.e. moderation intervention) and for trying to help the site I'm awarded an insta-ban. Great incentive!


Adressing other points by @Servy, to make clear to other posters what I mean with all this:

"You've provided posts that say you're welcome to re-flag a post after the flag ages away if you would like to, when you are again able to".

People didn't mention this part, nor the system (how would I magically been able to know that only after an arbitrary amount of 14 days I would be able to contribute to keep the site clean for free?).

"You have not in any way indicated that it's a good thing to always go to every single post that has an aged flag and immediately re-flag it".

Neither did I intend to do.

"In fact, Shog's post rather contradicts that opinion of yours".

No, it doesn't.

"You're acting like you've been wronged because you struggled to immediately re-flag every single post the second it aged away".

How horrible of my part I feel like I shouldn't be punished for trying to help with the moderation of this site for free.

" That's very strongly indicating that you feel it's essential to re-flag every flag that ages away"

For me? It certainly is, as you know, I don't work for StackExchange, nor do I have to time to keep revisiting posts months after flagging them. But I never implied I think everyone is required to do that. It's now basically implied it's bad to actually try to re-flag bad content, and I'm refraining from doing it, to the detriment of the site content, from now on.

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    "Everyone" isn't telling you that it's your imperative to always re-flag every flag that ages away as soon as you can. I asked you to provide even one example of this and you failed to provide one. Again, if the site just wanted everyone to always re-cast every flag that ages out as soon as possible they wouldn't age the flag away in the first place. Given that the system is also going out of its way to stop you from re-casting the flag immediately, that should be telling you something. You tried to subvert the system by using inappropriate flags. You've faced the consequences.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 13:41
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    @Servy you're saying this as if I owe something to StackExchange regarding the moderation of their own site. I do not. I'm just trying to help to keep the site clean. For trying to help I'm punished. "Everyone" is obviously a hyperbole, as I said "there are several views in meta (both here and on meta.SE itself) putting forward re-flagging as a good option after raised flags age away". You can read it clearly, "good option", not "requirement". You are picking the wording of the post instead of addressing the discussion Servy. Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 14:53
  • Where did I say you owed anything? You're the one saying you owe something. All I've ever said is that you shouldn't be abusing the flagging system by flagging posts in an inappropriate manner just because the system is going out of its way to prevent you from casting the flag you want to cast. You're not obligated to use the system, but if you choose to, you need to use it appropriately. Again, you've found a post that says you're welcome to reflag a post after a while; that you can in no way obligates you to, as you claim.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 14:57
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    @Servy the unadressed question still is "Could the moderation make it clearer reflagging should wait some time?". Because as it's now it's completely unclear to new users they have to wait an arbitrary amount of days to cast flags again to try to improve the site. Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 15:02
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    I'd say that stopping them from being able to cast the flag during that time is a pretty strong signal that they shouldn't be re-casting that flag during that time. You don't really need to go out of your way to inform people that they can't do something.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 15:56
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    @Servy the prompt doesn't tell you there's a time to wait, it only tells you already flagged it. Combining it with the much proliferated idea that reflagging is allowed (and even encouraged), how do you expect an user to magically figure it out? Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 19:12
  • If by "much proliferated", do you mean, one meta post that also specifically mentions that you cannot do so immediately, because that's not "much proliferated".
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 20:23
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    @Servy I looked here Servy: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/287211/2874779 "That doesn't necessarily mean they were wrong, just that there were other priorities. The recent change that marks them as "aged" means they won't sit forever in limbo - you now know they haven't been acted on, and are free to take alternate action (voting, editing, re-flagging) if you see it as necessary to maintain the quality of the site." (83 upvotes). Commented Oct 13, 2016 at 22:05
  • Yes. What's your point? How is that anything but consistent with everything that I've been saying? Your suggestion that people should always be re-flagging every single post that ages away, immediately, no matter what, and that failing to do so is a problem, is contrary to that post, and my statement that you're we-come to re-flag when you're able to do so is acceptable, but by no means expected or required of you, is entirely in line with that. You keep quoting posts that support my position and contradict yours.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 13:08
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    That's a strawman @Servy, I didn't claim re-flagging is required as you are repeating continuously, I said it's often suggested as a good option, and I provided posts corroborating that view. You are conflating what I said with what you would have liked I had said for the sake of debating. Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 13:12
  • You've provided posts that say you're welcome to re-flag a post after the flag ages away if you would like to, when you are again able to. You have not in any way indicated that it's a good thing to always go to every single post that has an aged flag and immediately re-flag it. In fact, Shog's post rather contradicts that opinion of yours. You're acting like you've been wronged because you struggled to immediately re-flag every single post the second it aged away.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 13:20
  • Yes, technically you didn't say that you were required to re-flag the posts, you've simply acted as though you felt you were required to. You created a meta post to complain about what a horrible thing it's going to be that you won't be able to immediately re-flag every flag that you've cast that ages away the very instant that you're able to, and how it's going to be such a loss that you'll have failed to re-flag some number of flags that have aged away. That's very strongly indicating that you feel it's essential to re-flag every flag that ages away.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 13:23
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    "Yes, technically you didn't say that you were required to re-flag the posts, you've simply acted as though you felt you were required to". Technically, @Servy, you made this up. Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 13:43
  • No, I did not. But since you're apparently now stating that you realize that it's not important to immediately re-flag flags when they age away, you realize that the entire problem that you're bringing up in your quesiton, that it's not easy to be to go through and re-flag all flags as soon as you're able to do so, isn't actually a problem, it's by design. Or are you saying that you knew that the behavior you're indicating was too hard for you to do wasn't desirable and that you proposed changing it anyway?
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 13:59
  • People didn't mention this part But..they did. You've so far provided two links. One specifically about the re-flagging of aged votes, that specifically mentions the 14 days, and one that did not. So saying, "people didn't mention it" isn't true. Neither did I intend to do. You're complaining about the fact that you can't, and how that's bad. That's functionally saying you think it's important to do it. No, it doesn't. But it does. Saying it doesn't doesn't change that.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 14:16
-1

Flags aren't disputed when a moderator looks at the flag and determines that it was not an appropriate flag. Flags are disputed when they don't end up being sent to a moderator for some reason. (Some flags, such as VLQ, are disputed if the post is edited, other flags will be disputed if a review queue, being used by non-moderator users, determines that the flag wasn't merited.) Your flags were declined because it's not appropriate to use a moderator flag to indicate that another type of flag you cast had aged out. This is as expected.

Perhaps the moderation could make it clearer reflagging should wait some time?

Well you've already made it clear that you knew you had to wait before re-flagging the content. Apparently we already did make it sufficiently clear. That you knew what you needed to do and simply choose not to isn't a failure of the system to inform you what the appropriate course(s) of action are.

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    I didn't say that, did I? I "now I know" means I looked after the fact and learned, after being insta-banned, that reflagging should wait 14 days. Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 18:45
  • @catastrophic-failure So you assumed that when the system went out of its way to stop you from casting a flag it did so because it wanted you to use a bunch of custom moderator flags to notify them that your previous flags all aged out? Why would they do that?
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 18:47
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    @catastrophic-failure If they just wanted you to re-flag every aged flag the flag wouldn't age away in the first place. You're allowed to re-flag a post after 2 weeks. That's not the same thing.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 18:49
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    Err, no. "When you flag an answer as NAA or VLQ and the post doesn't result in deletion but someone recommended deletion, the flag is disputed." It would end declined if everyone said "looks ok".
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 19:22
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    Then don't spread misinformation, or better, don't mention disputed at all if that's not the point of your answer and link instead meta.stackexchange.com/q/95275/213575
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 19:29
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    @Braiam It's not misinformation, I explained the aspect of disputed flags that's relevant to this specific question, without providing a complete description of all possible flag states and every circumstance in which they can come up. I explained why these flags were declined, rather than disputed, and gave a clearly non-exhaustive list of examples of situations where a flag would actually be disputed. Leaving it out would be failing to answer the question. Explaining everything about every possible resolution to any flag would be going beyond the scope of the question.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 19:31
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    @catastrophic-failure You'd have to ask the mod that accepted them.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 19:32
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    @Servy as a long-term lurker and occasional answerer on SO and throughout SE, I have steered clear of doing more than simply ignoring content that I suspect should be flagged because of the opacity of the process. Reading this question, discussion, and your answer reinforces my conclusion that taking advice from meta (such as the OPs linked advice from a diamond mod) about how and when to flag is too frustrating and unclear. The only predictable results seem to be punishment for those who care about site content and the excuse that the punishments are justified because too few people care.
    – newcoder
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 2:25
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    @Servy You're missing the point. I think the definition of "completely inappropriate flag reason" is too unclear in the interface, documentation, and meta discussion, which is the point of this question. The linked advice "so in the future just re-flag it: the question will go up for review again, and perhaps catch a bit more attention this time" is at odds with the attitude that aged-away flags should not be re-raised. What do those who care about the site's quality have to lose from making the re-flagging limitations and options clearer in the UI?
    – newcoder
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 17:10
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    @Servy I find it entertaining that your argument for leaving the UI and documentation as they are hinges around the assumption that everyone encountering it can be reasonably expected to arrive at the same conclusions you do, when most of the comment thread between yourself and the OP consists of you mis-interpreting a question that at least 9 other people (by net votes) found perfectly clear. Again, what does the site have to lose by including a text like "if this question is still here and requires [flag type] 14 days from now, you may re-flag?"
    – newcoder
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 17:24
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    @newcoder What about the question did I misinterpret? I disagreed with many of his assertions. I never said his question was unclear. I also note that you didn't actually answer my question. You say you're entertained that I would make an assumption that someone could come to that conclusion, and not indicated why you feel that assumption wouldn't hold. Why, if at all, do you feel it's reasonable to expect people to cast inappropriate flags when the system tells them they can't use the flag they want to cast?
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 17:42
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    @Servy You answered the OPs surprise that the flags were not disputed, which is your only content I see on this question for which you have cited a consistent source. However, declining flags was an aside in the original question, and nowhere did the OP ask what they should have done. OP asked "Could the moderation make it clearer reflagging should wait some time? Moderation intervention is out of the question here?" and you assert that flagging for moderation intervention IS inappropriate and are silent on the first point. The onus is on you to defend your interpretation.
    – newcoder
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 23:42
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    Evidence to support my point: Meta discussion is an inconsistent source, as previous links show and you yourself agree. Vote counts here show the preponderance of those who care about this question agree with @catastrophic-failure and I. The OPs two "helpful" mod flags in the original question stand as evidence that flagging for mod intervention when the waiting period has not expired to re-flag for the original reason is NOT ALWAYS inappropriate.
    – newcoder
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 23:45
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    Note: We are not arguing that raising mod flags instead of re-flagging is always appropriate. OP is asking how could the distinction between appropriate and inappropriate actions be clarified. Further, there is precedent on SE for encouraging users to raise a mod flag for a situation where the UI does not allow one to take the "more correct" action. I will locate a link if no one else does so first citing meta discussion encouraging users who cannot yet VTC to raise and explain mod flags when they encounter questions which "should be closed."
    – newcoder
    Commented Oct 14, 2016 at 23:53
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    Citations of SE precedent: gis.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/close-questions "once you gain the reputation to vote to close, you should no longer flag for moderator attention to have questions closed or migrated. It is your responsibility to vote now." Related situation b/c users "cannot flag a question for closing if the question has a bounty on it." meta.stackexchange.com/questions/260606/… "flagging for mod attention is an option"
    – newcoder
    Commented Oct 15, 2016 at 1:54

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