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We’re talking with the folks at WSO2 and they’re interested in making some adjustments to the tags related to their technologies.

They have proposed that some tags be remapped to others, effectively either renaming the tags or consolidating two or more tags. As you’ll see, one result will be a more standardized format for tags, beginning with wso2-*.

Community Managers will execute these changes, so there will be no work needed from the community.

To those who are active in these tags: Do you have any concerns? Are there any reasons these changes should not be made? Discussion will be open until further notice, and we’ll make the updates after it concludes. The proposed updates are as follows:

Rename the following tags for standardization:

Create the following synonym mappings for consolidation:

* (all uses of are referring to the WSO2 technology)

Create the following synonyms for the new tag :

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    It may be useful to note that by "remap" you mean "create synonyms for", for those used to the normal jargon, or those looking to understand precisely what actions will be done. Commented Jun 8, 2022 at 20:02
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    @HereticMonkey Thank you. The alternate version of this post used the term "synonymize" and it somehow felt less clear. I also struggled with "synonymize with" vs "synonymize to".
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jun 8, 2022 at 22:38
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    What is the precedent in some other meta questions? Commented Jun 8, 2022 at 23:07
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    @PeterMortensen Can you clarify your question?
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jun 8, 2022 at 23:43
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    The system/tooling uses "tag synonyms", so this is the vernacular that people are familiar with, for better or worse. Normally, "synonymize with" would make more sense, but given the way synonyms work on SO/SE (one-way redirects), "synonymize to" probably makes more sense. I often go with something more verbose, like: "Create a synonym mapping tag [x] to tag [y]".
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 0:01
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    Please do not map anything to wso2. wso2 should be burninated (removed), as it is a meta tag; as my comment under Mark Amery's answer states, this site is for questions about programming, not questions about companies that provide programming products, tools, or services. There is a fair amount of precedent here on Meta for removing company tags.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 14:20
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    Post updated to note that the date of the changes is to be determined, pending conclusion of discussion here.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 17:37
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    I am the WSO2 team member leading our refocus on our SO community. Our intention here is to improve clarity and reduce the number of unanswered questions. Our primary observation from the community was the "grab bag" approach taken to add any wso2-related tags in hopes of getting an answer. Thank you for the feedback, and we will work on clarifying these changes further. I will comment on Mark Amery's answer on the reason for wso2carbon -> wso2 and how the general wso2 tag helps.
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 21:19
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    Why not just 'remap' wso2carbon to... wso2-carbon, to follow the same scheme all the others are using?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 10, 2022 at 14:11
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    'carbon' (a play on the oxygen "O2" reference) was originally used to identify the main library of developer tools but since it has become widespread throughout all products and engineering teams. It doesn't mean one thing or represents one product or tool.
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 13, 2022 at 14:02
  • Potentially relevant retag-requests: Combine [api-manager] to [wso2-am], possibly rename to [wso2am] (from 2015), Combine tags [msf4j] and [wso2msf4j] (from 2021)
    – V2Blast Staff
    Commented Jun 16, 2022 at 14:28

3 Answers 3

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I am not a WSO2 user, but I'm not sure if you'll successfully find any with this Meta post anyway, so I will outline some concerns I have after a quick google and then defer to those who know more. Two things here smell wrong to me:

  1. Synonymising (or anything) to looks incorrect. The tag, per its description, just identifies the WSO2 organisation and is used as a catch-all for questions about any of their products. (Indeed perhaps it oughtn't exist at all, per our usual norm of not having company tags for companies with many products - e.g. we don't have a or tag.) Carbon, on the other hand, is a specific WSO2 product. How can these be synonyms? Isn't this like synonymising to ?

  2. The tags that it's proposed we synonymise into appear to be deprecated WSO2 products that WSO2 says have been superseded by API Manager (which I guess is also known as "APIM"). For instance, refers to WSO2 Data Services Server whose webpage has a big banner saying you should use WSO2 Enterprise Integrator instead whose webpage in turn has a big banner saying its capabilities are included in WSO2 API Manager.

    And if I look at the most recent question, at How to commit a transaction after insert on WSO2 Data Services, it kinda sounds to me like the asker is genuinely using DSS - i.e. the old product that got deprecated in 2017? (Maybe I'm misunderstanding this and DSS is still maintained as a component of API Manager, and these people are really using DSS as part of API Manager, but I don't think that's what's going on because the deprecation notice on the DSS product page suggests EI simply superseded DSS rather than having it as a component.) Assuming these people really are using the old, deprecated product, rather than using API Manager, tagging those questions with would just be mislabelling them.

    So I think it's important to critically ask: are these synonymisations genuinely meant to help clearly identify products that are being asked about, or are they meant to nudge users onto newer, non-deprecated offerings? Because if it's the latter, we shouldn't do it; that's not what synonymisation is for. (Putting a few words noting the deprecation in the tag wiki excerpts might be a legit alternative if that's WSO2's aim, here.)

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    Agreed on point #1; we typically remove organization-only tags. Stack Overflow is for questions about programming, not companies who create programming products or services.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 14:17
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    [wso2:carbon] is a Java library [1] that was once used publically but is now just an internal tool. Using the tag doesn't clarify what expertise is needed to find an answer as it could be in many other categories. [1] maven.wso2.org/nexus/content/repositories/releases/org/wso2/…
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 21:23
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    Keeping wso2 as a generic catch for question makes sense due to our wide range of services and libraries that are used and embedded in other products. There would be times when someone would just see a log message with the java path and not have any indication of which product or service was being used. The much larger task would be to decide on what to replace the wso2 tag with in the event it was the only one used.
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 21:27
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    on your 2nd point thank you for the observation. The proposed change I received from the business was to "point users to the newer products" which I had to reduce the scope down to what I felt represented the SO community. I agree wso2dss can stand on its own and doesn't need to be synonymized.
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 21:29
  • @A.J. It does not make sense to keep wso2 from the perspective of Stack Overflow. It's true, someone could be an "expert in WSO2", but you can't ask a question about WSO2 here that is on-topic... only a question about one of WSO2's products. If the company support team is concerned about needing a way to catch all questions, you can use the tag query [wso2-*] which will get all tags starting with "wso2-" (visit this URL https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=[wso2-*])
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 10, 2022 at 14:08
  • @TylerH where would you propose to point the tag? And your solution doesn't include how an asker would tag a question about an OEM install that has white-labeled WSO2 products in them. I don't think having a tag for each package in our maven repo is a good alternative. I don't think I could convince my colleagues that removing [wso2] is best for the community when tags like [mulesoft], [azure], or [amazon-web-services] remain.
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 10, 2022 at 20:49
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    @A.J. it doesn't need to be pointed anywhere. It needs to be removed. I don't know what you mean by 'how would they tag a question about an OEM install [...]"... they would just use the tag(s) for the products they are using/asking about, like everyone else already does. Your comparison to mulesoft, azure, and AWS are inaccurate because those are not companies, but products/platforms. Is there a platform called WSO2 (only "WSO2", not "WSO2-something")? If so, then the tag can stay. But it sounds from the question like there is only the company, and that's what the tag currently referencing.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 10, 2022 at 21:25
  • @TylerH What I mean by an OEM install is when a company incorporates a full product or library into their product such that the end-user doesn't see it but admins do. We don't control who or how those are implemented and the majority just have access to generic wso2.log files.
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 11, 2022 at 13:20
  • WSO2 is a platform spanning many libraries, developer tools, products, and services. We have given some names for clarity but much is covered by [wso2]. Other than synonymizing for clarity, I wouldn't be able to support a change as it wouldn't benefit our development community.
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 11, 2022 at 13:20
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I'm not a WSO2 user myself, and I'm not familiar with the technologies, but this process seems a little strange to me.

There's a suggestion here of merging 5 existing tags under one tag. I assume that there's a reason over 500 questions were asked with rather than the more popular with over 2,800 questions.

This post quacks a bit like a burnination. Whatever context the askers and question editors thought they were providing by tagging a question is to be removed if this post goes ahead. Maybe that's a good thing! Maybe it's not. Either way, we're skipping over phase 1 of the burnination process.

I think it's worth noting that a lot (probably the vast majority) of burnination proposals don't result in a tag being destroyed, but might result in re-tagging, synonymisation, or no action and that's cool!

There's a principle in burnination at the proposal stage:

Apathy should not be interpreted as a sign of support.

I don't think this part of your post aligns with that:

we’ll make the updates on June 10 unless reasons to wait arise as a result of discussion.


Let's start with answering the "four preliminary tests that help identifying problematic tags" for (Taking into account my lack of knowledge on the subject):

Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

Looks like it to me, questions about ask specifically about the WSO2 Data Services Server described in the tag wiki

Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

Yes

Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

Looks like it does to me.

Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

Yes

It certainly seems to me like isn't problematic in itself. Perhaps it deserves a rename to fit with convention, but I think synonymising it with other tags requires more discussion.

Perhaps none of these changes are controversial, perhaps they're even well supported by everyone involved. Regardless, I think we should follow the process we've spent years working out.

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    I don't think the burnination criteria are really relevant here. No one's proposing removing tags, just combining them. For that, it's a matter of if they refer to the same thing.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 5:44
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    Please stop using the burnination criteria as a way to obstruct tag cleanup. Please.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Jun 9, 2022 at 16:34
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We have completed the tag changes, thank you for the discussion here! The list is below. One notable difference from the initial proposal is that some of the acronyms are now expanded within the tag, for clarity.

Renamed the following tags for standardization:

Created the following synonym mappings for consolidation:

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    Another change that came from the conversation was to reduce the number of tags being hidden behind others. Thank you for all of the feedback!
    – A.J.
    Commented Jun 13, 2022 at 23:01

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