28

So I had this answer (screenshot for <10K) deleted by a moderator.

I raised a flag to try and get some clarification on why it was deleted, but no soap. I checked the timeline and the only comment on the deletion is "via Vote", but I don't see any close votes in the timeline (maybe they don't show up there?).

I'm just looking for clarification.

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  • 4
    " but I don't see any close votes in the timeline (maybe they don't show up there?)" - Answers can't be closed, only questions Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:01
  • 2
    There can not be close votes on Answers. Only Questions can be closed. However, there can be delete votes on Answers, and moderators have a binding vote. Meaning just one vote from a moderator is needed for the action to occur. Else three votes are required (perhaps more on meta. 5 or 6 votes)
    – Scratte
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:01
  • 8
    Your answer doesn't really answer the question. Op asks how to do better research before asking and you tell them: Do more research, only ask as a last resort.
    – BDL
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:01
  • 28
    @BDL that is downvote reason, not a delete reason.
    – rene
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:02
  • 19
    @rene: I disagree. Not trying to answer the question is imho a reason to delete an answer.
    – BDL
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:07
  • 5
    @BDL the age old tug o' war of what NAA is :)
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:08
  • 4
    @BDL sure, at +21/-9 you need to be pretty sure it is not answering the question or is deemed useful to some voters. But deletion on meta is more frivolous obviously.
    – rene
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:09
  • 6
    @Gimby: Not really. The question is not about flagging as NAA or reviewing in the LQP queue. It's about the trusted user privilege. The help center for "When should I vote to delete an answer?" states: "The answer doesn't attempt to answer the question"
    – BDL
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 10:10
  • 9
    I can't imagine a question where such a nagging rant, could be an answer. Here we have question "How to make a good chiken curry" and your answers is just rant about how old time we eat raw chiken. How string chiken used to be. And curry is not even the best way to cook chiken.
    – Self
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 11:23
  • 2
    The true nugget of information in that answer is "Search the web, exhaust every reference you can find". I suppose that could be considered NAA since you're not directly figuring out how to avoid duplicating questions on SO. However, in my experience, the best way to find duplicates is to use the Google search engine, and not the SO search anyway. So in a roundabout way, it does kind of answer the question.
    – zero298
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 11:46
  • 12
    However, I find it kind of weird to bother deleting a generally upvoted answer especially on meta considering it is still kind of an answer.
    – zero298
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 11:47
  • 2
    @BDL but if you've found and read book that answers your question didn't you prevent asking a question that gets closed as a duplicate?
    – rene
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 11:55
  • 6
    The tin foil hat wearer in me wants to say that it's because it echoes the notion that "asking a question on Stack Overflow is the absolute last thing you ever want to do" which has been a giant point of contention.
    – zero298
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 11:56
  • 6
    Not that it really matters on Meta, but purely as an aside, I find this sentence in your answer to be condescending and unnecessary: "Believe it or not, people learned how to write software before the Internet". I wouldn't bother to downvote your answer for that, but I can imagine that others might.
    – skomisa
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 20:06
  • 4
    @zero298, I doubt the "honest attempt". It seems more like an elitist rant about noobs than real advice. It blames the internet for bad advice, as if books can't do the same. And what is bad advice anyway? It might be bad advice for certain situations, but not others. I've been doing professional development for +8 years and learning it for nearly 30 years, yet I don't find all my answers with research. And books have failed me more often than the internet, to the point where I no longer bother with books. They're too expensive and often out of date, sometimes even before they're published. Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 22:30

7 Answers 7

40

I'll argue it is an answer to a question even to the question asked in the title. The title reads:

How can I make sure the question I'm going to post is not going to be duplicate?

The deleted answer makes a case for exhausting all conceivable options before even considering posting an question.

Yes, that is an extreme edge, maybe far sought. I don't think it is invalid advice, specially for new users to the Stack Exchange Network. I honestly believe we should explain, teach, coach, prepare question askers that asking a question on Stack Overflow is not a human right. The motivation behind How am I not going to post a duplicate is off. New askers should be bothered with: Is my question unique, relevant to the scope and valuable for future visitors. To reach that goal, you have to go way beyond what Google serves up. And that is the advice I read in the deleted answer.

The answer (scoring +21/-9) should not have been deleted, specially not by a user with a diamond. If you dislike the extreme case / grim look the answer poses, down vote. If you think it is not useful, delete vote once you can. Let's not abuse Not An Answer flags to get rid of posts we don't like / deem not useful. We don't do that on main either, no need to do that on Meta.

The answer should be undeleted (no edits needed) and normal curation should have its way. If the community decides to delete it, so be it.

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  • 13
    You're probably right. It's borderline at best. I undeleted it
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 17:49
  • 4
    Oh, was an answer in meta, I was thinking that it was an answer in the main site.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 19:15
13

Your answer was more of a soliloquy than an earnest attempt at providing a helpful answer to the question, but I don't think you were trying to be unhelpful or snarky. Is it an answer, albeit opinion and maybe a bit hot? Well .. kinda?

When we overhauled question blocks and implemented the rolling rate limit feature, you probably heard or read myself or Shog talking about finding ways to help people discover that asking questions on the site isn't an inexhaustible resource; that we give you a few opportunities to get used to how the site works and if you're still having trouble, we do the nicest thing we possibly can - we help you not dig yourself into a deeper hole by limiting the number of questions you can ask each day until you establish a fair track record.

To that, I (and probably Shog) can most likely be directly quoted as saying "Asking on SO should be your last resort.." - but the context around that was all of the things provided to help you find the answer you're looking for that probably exists somewhere, to illustrate the value of rubber duck debugging, and to just give general guidance on how to approach problems when you have a high sense of urgency.

Relaying that particular phrase, even with the best of intentions outside of the immediate context where we were working, might not be extremely helpful and might come across as kinda rude - and I think that's what sparked the reaction that led to the flag.

So the point (yes, I have one!) I could go either way on the answer, it did seem like you started to write something helpful but a lot of frustration came out. But, part of that is likely due to something I said which, years later out of context, turns out to be sharper at the tip than I would have liked. I'm sorry about that. Still stand by what I said, but I should have thought about how that narrative would age as time went on and circumstances faded.

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    Yes, it's all Tim's fault! That's it...
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 18:00
  • 3
    time to find those keys Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 20:26
  • 1
    @PetterFriberg What was the meme again? Dropped keys?
    – Clockwork
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 10:42
  • 1
    "but I should have thought about how that narrative would age as time went on" - that's good advice for us all really. Don't write only for the now, write so further down the line you don't wince when you read it back yourself.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 12:22
  • 3
    @Clockwork: The official meme Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 15:28
10

Each to their own opinion, of course, but there seems to be a great deal of "psychoanalysis" around that answer. A lot of users have managed to read a lot into it. Perhaps it's a case of "People see what they expect to see."

I'm not going to address any of that, because, quite frankly, I cannot imagine how most of those positions got from Point A to Point B in the first place.

As far as the answer itself, naturally I think it answered the question (as asked), and that it could be helpful (to the OP).

The question was "How can I make sure the question I'm going to post is not going to be duplicate?". Then the OP spent most of the post exploring Web search as a solution to their problem, as though there were no other alternative.

If you read my answer for what it actually says, it simply tells the OP not to limit themselves to only Web search, and if they do, to be aware of all of the cruft that's out there.

I think a lot of the friction arises from the "last resort" phrase, which apparently rubs a lot of users quite the wrong way. Tim Post's answer states that asking should, in fact, be a "last resort", but that one should apparently only say so within sufficient context. I admit that I'm not quite sure what that means.

I guess a lot of users see that phrase and assume that it is intended to mean "Don't ask", which is not the case. It is intended to mean "Don't ask until you have tried everything else". Which, as long as duplicate questions are off-topic for Stack Overflow, is the correct stance. I don't think this is the venue to hash over the question of whether duplicates should be permitted. As it stands currently, they are not.

So, addressing the OP's question, the way to keep from having questions flagged as duplicates is to keep from asking duplicate questions. For beginners, this is correlates directly with familiarity with the fundamentals.

It is a very simple situation, which is why my answer wasn't very long. I don't think it needs to be any longer to state the case.

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    This is doubtless part of "People see what they want to see," but I genuinely think a lot of the consternation is the interpretation of "everything." It would take more than a lifetime to read "everything" available on any number of programming questions. And as several folks mentioned on the other thread, search is terrible. For a long time, it wasn't possible to search for how to use the C# Indexer ([]) if you didn't know what it was called. (Google now lets you include symbols under some circumstances.) Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 14:37
  • 2
    In general, I do not think it should be a requirement to read a language's entire specification to learn the terms it uses in order to ask a question that can't reasonably be searched for. If it's a duplicate, by all means we should close it as a dupe. But it adds to the possible search terms the next poor sod might use to hunt for it. Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 14:40
  • "Don't ask until you have tried everything else".. is really the key to never ask any Questions on the site. If anyone can answer, then obviously, the asker didn't try everything else.
    – Scratte
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 21:24
  • 2
    @Scratte a lot (I'd argue that most) can try and succeed in nothing - I myself have a fair share of areas where not matter how I try, I will fail. That's the situation for when one should ask a question. The problem is that people get a clear error message and immediately run on SO to post a "help! I got an <insert error here>. What do I do?".
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 1:14
  • @OlegValter what? That's not what I'm supposed to do? Then what is Stack Overflow useful for?
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 12:18
  • @Braiam - I assume it should be postfixed with /s or /i?
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 12:21
  • 1
    It is probably a little obtuse to state that asking a question is a last resort, the truth is as usual in the middle where you make a compromise between making an effort and having to postpone asking the question for a month because you have to figuratively scour the ends of the earth first. We don't want to be elitist after all, so some leniency is required. As in... make an effort but by golly don't risk getting a nervous breakdown because you worry you haven't done enough yet before asking. If a question ends up being a duplicate after all then the world will keep spinning.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 19, 2021 at 16:08
8

On deleting

The "trusted user" privilege help center page has the following to say on when an answer should be deleted (apart from the very low-quality situation):

The answer doesn't attempt to answer the question; it may be a comment or a separate question altogether.

I want to stress out the attempt part. Some argued that the answer does not address a question, but when the author of the question states this:

I am obviously not searching well enough in order to pinpoint the exact problem I am trying to find

then that:

I am missing duplicates because I have poor searching skills.

and, finally:

it seems to me that all searching is useless when my lack of skills directs me away from the questions I need to find

Claiming the answer responding to the above that opens with:

Web search for the problem that you are having at any given point should not be your only option

does not even attempt to answer the question and thus warrants deletion is either a gross misunderstanding or a deliberate misuse of a delete vote.


Here is also a quote from the general guideline for deleting answers from the MSE FAQ:

For answers, any post that is not an answer (should be a comment, doesn't answer the question, etc.) should be deleted. Answers that are wrong or that dispense poor advice should be downvoted, not deleted.

I want to stress the usually overlooked part: "Answers ... that dispense poor advice should be downvoted, not deleted". Both "we also don't want the opposite extreme either" and "I read this as more of a "political" rant" (quotes from Machavity's answer) are assessments of the intentions behind the post as well as opinions on the usefulness of the answer others might agree or disagree with - reasons to downvote but not delete.


On NAA flagging

The FAQ entry on NAA flags lists the following list of reasons to flag an answer as NAA:

  • Thanking the posters
  • Asking a new question
  • Asking for clarifications
  • 'Bumping' the question
  • Links to an answer

Was it thanking anyone? No. Did it contain another question? No. Was it soliciting clarifications from the OP? No. Did they "bump" the question? No, the Q&A was hot and active. Was this a link-only answer? No, there are 0 links in it.

The post checked none of the reasons above. If none apply (the "attempt" part is addressed above), then it should not have been flagged, much less deleted. As per the same FAQ item:

Any post that attempts to answer the question—however badly—is still an answer! Do not use the "not an answer" flag for wrong answers. Moderators do not judge the technical correctness of answers.

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  • 2
    "The FAQ entry on NAA flags lists the following closed list of reasons to flag an answer as NAA" the FAQ is wrong if that were the case. Anything that goes against "This was posted as an answer, but it does not attempt to answer the question" which is the flavor text of the flag dialog is wrong. Please link said FAQ, so it's properly updated.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 13:29
  • 1
    @Braiam I think the FAQ in question is When to flag an answer as “not an answer”, but that post doesn't use the "closed list of reasons" verbiage. It gives the mentioned list as "examples", which implies the list would most definitely be open ended.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 15:44
  • @Braiam - did I not link to it? Shoot, thanks zcoop98, yeah, that's the one. Probably shouldn't have worded it "closed", but it does not change the fact that the post checks none of them and falls under the "not to flag" part.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 0:58
  • @OlegValter that is a very extreme interpretation of the FAQ.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 12:13
  • @Braiam - not sure what you mean? There was no explicit reason to delete it and it did answer the question as most of the answers here point out, is this an extreme interpretation?
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 12:38
  • A moderator (and users) can delete an answer for a variety of reason, not just because flagging. Your argument is based on "it was deleted because it was flagged, and it should not be flagged". Flagging is one way moderators can be made aware of content that needs deletion, but they can choose to ignore the flag and still delete content, or accept the flag and not delete it. The reasons for the deletion are in this answer. Note the distinct lack of flags involved in the through process.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 14:01
  • The extreme interpretation comes from equating it to the only reasons we delete content. That FAQ is not even an exhaustive list of what content should be flagged, it just explains one of the many mechanism we delete content. In other words: do not use as basis for arguing against deletion of anything.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 14:03
  • @Braiam - I was arguing against deleting it as "not an answer", which this FAQ is about. The whole mess came out of trying to delete it as NAA (see flagger's answer below) which is wrong. Never said deletions should happen only in case of those reasons - you are reading in what I did not convey at all.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 14:08
  • No, I'm reading exactly what you intended to convey, that this answer shouldn't be deleted like it was deleted. Yet, it ignores something important: a moderator deleted it and would have deleted it without a flag. Just leave all the stuff about flags and what not out of your answer, it doesn't make your point stronger and basically you are simply badly quoting the help center. And note: I'm against the deletion of this answer, but the arguments against deletion just reek dogma to me.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 14:26
  • @Braiam - I am not ignoring the moderator deletion. I am addressing computercarguy's "I'm one of the people who flagged it as "Not An Answer". Then there is rene's inquiry: "Was that answer flagged or did you stumble on it?" and Machavity's response "It was flagged NAA". And then their response to the OP: "You need to tie your answer into the question". I am fairly certain this was about NAA and I understood it just fine. That's an important point: the post was flagged NAA, then deleted because of the mod also thought it doesn't answer the question. Thanks for the advice, but I'd rather not.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 14:46
6

There were a couple of problems I noticed.

Web search for the problem that you are having at any given point should not be your only option. Believe it or not, people learned how to write software before the Internet.

And then at the end

Asking a question on Stack Overflow should be the last resort, especially for beginners, because it's odds-on that their question has been asked already.

The question was how to find duplicate questions and your answer seems to boil down to "Don't ask it in the first place". We want to encourage folks to find answers on their own. That much is true. And we don't want the low quality questions where people dump code/homework and expect all the work to be done for them. But we also don't want the opposite extreme either, where people are told to exhaust everything before asking. Sometimes people need to see that they're making a mistake before they can acknowledge it. I read this as more of a "political" rant about the state of Stack Overflow than an attempt at an answer.

If you want to edit it to where it clearly answers the topic, I'm more than happy to undelete it. Just ping me in comments if you do (Meta flags are super slow)

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    Was that answer flagged or did you stumble on it?
    – rene
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 13:21
  • 3
    It was flagged NAA
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 13:24
  • 8
    @Machavity: Well, since I can't understand how you got to * ... more of a 'political' rant ... * in the first place, I don't have any idea how I would re-write it so that you didn't get there again. Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 13:41
  • 11
    Forget the "political" part. Lots of people post those on Meta and we don't delete them just because we disagree with them. You need to tie your answer into the question. "Just don't ask the question" or "Become a subject matter expert first" aren't really answers to how to find duplicate questions.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 13:49
  • 5
    eh, i think "don't post it" is a valid answer to "how can I make sure my question isn't a duplicate". Not posting it would certainly make it not a duplicate.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 14:39
  • 3
    @KevinB - It would be a sarcastic unhelpful answer that belongs on Yahoo Answers or Quora. Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 15:19
  • 2
    @SecurityHound then downvote it. NAA isn't a super downvote
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 15:20
  • 3
    @KevinB - I absolutely would downvote a sarcastic unhelpful answer that didn't actually answer the question that was asked. Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 15:21
  • 9
    Your sentiment makes this sound like it's an answer that isn't preferable, not that it isn't an answer at all. Wrong answers are still answers, and we have mechanisms to deal with that.
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 17:20
  • 1
    Users don't agree whether a post is a duplicate or not. Some are being closed on huge canonicals where the asker likely has no idea how the target answers their Question. This is certainly true for the regex tag. The only way to be sure of not asking a Question that someone may see as a duplicate is to not ask one at all. That's the heart of that Answer.
    – Scratte
    Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 17:49
  • "There were a couple of problems I noticed" - Those aren't problems with the proposed answer. That's a statement of your disagreement with the content. Totally not a reason to delete, and certainly not a reason to boss around the author to edit their contribution before you can consider undeleting it. This is borderline censorship and power abuse. Commented Apr 15, 2021 at 23:40
  • 5
    @IInspectable that's hyperbole. A sample set of one is a really poor foundation to build such claims on top of. There is no censorship or power abuse until there is a proven history of it, until that time Machavity is an elected diamond mod exercising the freedoms that come with it to the best of their judgement and sometimes that judgement makes an oopsie.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 12:37
  • 5
    Let me put this to bed. I initially read this like I would read the following: Q: How do I stop a toddler from screaming? A: Don't have kids. It sounds rather trollish and similar to "Don't ask questions until you read some books" (which is a kind of comment we deal with a lot). rene's point is valid, in that we should let the Meta process play out here and that it no longer seems like an attempt at trolling. I've voted to delete 90 times on Meta, and 2/3 of thiose were made before becoming a mod. As I've said elsewhere, I don't believe in deleting things that I merely disagree with.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 15:03
  • 2
    @IInspectable - that's a bit extreme - Machavity already owned up to it, and the system worked perfectly as expected in my opinion: the post was deleted > deletion brought up > people disagreed with the deletion > post was reinstated. Warms my heart when I see this happen - it is more than I can say about real-world institutions where I live. P.s. Re:analogy - Machavity, that's what, I think, was the tripping point: if we use the same analogy, the answer was "don't have kids until you prove to yourself you can take care of another living thing".
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 1:08
6

For many beginners, the problem is that they don't know the language and/or framework well enough yet. Exhaust all of the reference materials you can find first, whether they come from the Web or in print.

Had to type it, but it was worth it because this seems like it may be valuable advice. What this part of the deleted answer says is that Web search without profound knowledge gets you only so far and much more efficient is reading more comprehensive materials first. Studying goes beyond searching and as such it's a frame challenge to the implied assumption of the question that it's possible to avoid asking duplicates by searching alone.

I think if the answer would concentrate on this more and tries to be as polite as possible, it should be undeleted.

0
-5

I'm one of the people who flagged it as "Not An Answer". Maybe I can shed some light on why I did so.

However, the reason why my question got posted to SO in the first place is that I am obviously not searching well enough in order to pinpoint the exact problem I am trying to find. Specifically, I am using words vastly different from others, due to the lack of knowledge of jargon, or rather, the lack of knowledge on whether this jargon even exists. I am missing duplicates because I have poor searching skills.

I based my flag on the above paragraph. The OP was asking how to do better research, which the answer doesn't address. It says to do more research, not how to do better research. Simply doing more bad research isn't often going to find better answers.

This is one of those "quantity vs quality" problems.

Doing research without knowing the jargon can miss a considerable amount of things. One of the things I've learned when doing research is to target where to do the research, and research usually includes asking questions. Asking the correct person the right question can end hours or days of research, and knowing who that "correct person" is part of knowing how to research. And some of those questions can lead to learning the jargon so other questions and research can be done better.

Stack Overflow and related sites are often the target for many topics, as it is a vast resource for answers to problems. It has become that "correct person". And it's open for people to ask questions, so people are going to ask those questions. Even a question like "Hey, do you remember how we fixed that thing X years ago?" is a reasonable question. And duplicate questions aren't necessarily a bad thing.

I really hate it when people suggest to not ask a question simply to avoid downvotes or to avoid a question being a duplicate, as comments on this thread and other places in Meta have said. The Only Stupid Question is the One You Don’t Ask. Is "don't ask a question" something a Q&A site really wants to promote? I can definitely understand that there are appropriate questions. And ones that have reasonable research behind them are definitely appropriate, even if it's a duplicate or unpopular, thus gaining downvotes. Or gather the ever-present "drive-by downvoter". However, there's a considerable amount of Meta conversations, Tour, and Help Center talk about what is an "appropriate question". Most of that comes down to personal opinion, including individual interpretation of the Tour, Help Center, and Meta conversations.

The whole reason why this current thread exists is because of those interpretations. This same "don't ask questions" theme is present in the answer in contention, "Asking a question on Stack Overflow should be the last resort". I definitely agree that a reasonable amount of research should be done before posting a question, but "last resort" is pretty extreme. I've asked questions after hours or days of research when nothing seemed to work and I seemed to be getting repeats or dead-ends, but I still kept looking.

Personal experience

At least one of my questions has gotten opposing feedback about the research I did. The first time I posted the question, I had one high rep user say that I didn't do enough research, and started posting links for me to try, even though I had those exact links in the question. And evidently because of that research, it got downvoted. It eventually got roombaed, but I still needed an answer, so I posted it again verbatim. This time another high rep member said I'd done too much research and needed to be more concise. How can I do more research and show less research while posting more relevant info while also having a shorter question? (People seem to think I'm arguing that I don't want to follow advice, except I'm arguing that I've previously gotten the opposite advice, so how can I follow both?) This new question also has downvotes, even though it's currently at +1.

I bring this up because of the fact that I still kept looking for an answer even after posting the question. I've seen numerous other questions where the OP answers themselves after continuing to do more research.

I also bring up my question to showcase how even high rep members all too often have differing opinions about the rules of what a good question is.

My question also shows that even doing a massive amount of research can still not lead you to an answer. And yet it also looks like a duplicate because of many other people having a similar situation and deciding on solutions that don't work for a particular reason. One of the reasons I posted so many links in my original question is that I didn't want it to instantly be marked as a duplicate. I'd found a bunch of other questions that had answers that worked for the asker, but not for me. And, it turns out, the answer I finally got was one that wasn't suggested anywhere else. It's also a solution I didn't think about using as I didn't know that would actually work, was less complicated than expected, and was explained with an example instead of a comment of "use a makefile", which isn't explanatory at all.

Conclusion

So much of my reasoning for not only downvoting the answer but also flagging to get rid of it is because it's apparently another one of the (many) RTFM Answers that doesn't really answer anything. What good is it to read a book/manual/site if it's not the right one or someone disagrees that it's the right one? What's the point of a Q&A site if questions aren't welcomed?

Stack Overflow/Stack Exchange has tried to make these sites more welcoming to members by the advent of the "be nice" ideology, yet there's still an elitist mentality in many members. I can't tell you how many times I've thought about deleting all my accounts here and never using the site again because of this elitist attitude. Maybe that's not how it's intended, but that's how certain things manifest in text. We all need to be mindful of how things sound when we don't have the speakers tone of voice to hear how it's intended.

And when an answer says "Believe it or not, people learned how to write software before the Internet.", that's pretty conceited. I can't think of too many ways that can be said without it being derogatory.

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  • 4
    Rereading that answer, I'd say its third paragraph makes it enough of a proper answer by suggesting a better grasp of fundamentals can help beginners to avoid duplicates, though that's admittedly easy to overlook on a first reading. My reservations about the answer aside (for instance, the "last resort" slogan really should be retired), I think it is important to be very cautious when it comes to deleting posts on Meta.
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 0:56
  • 3
    I really agree with your overall view, but I still dispute that an NAA flag was appropriate. This is a dicey case because there's a dispute between what the answerer intended to convey, and what people read, largely pinned on that "believe it or not" line. Meta would be a much less valuable place if we got rid of all the wrong or controversial, opinionated answers; votes are largely the vehicle Meta should be using to indicate sentiment about a given answer. Personally, I think only complete, radioactive garbage should be actually deleted from Meta, and the answer in question wasn't it.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 16, 2021 at 15:40
  • 2
    @zcoop98 - I also hate to break it to those who think "believe it or not" was snarky and offensive, but that meaning is far from being the primary meaning of the colloquial phrase the author of the answer used. I really hope people stopped reading offensive meanings in posts (let alone acting on them).
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 1:43
  • 3
    @computercarguy - allow me a quick rant about the current state of affairs. What is so "elitist" about using one's own brain capacity to look up the bare minimum (web search, tutorials, blog posts, other similar questions) before rushing in to ask another question? And yes, believe it or not, when looking or interacting with people who started before "the Internet", I tend to find out they are orders of magnitude more knowledgeable than we with all our quick search skills (something tells me that's because the had to think for themselves most of the time or converse with colleagues).
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 1:50
  • @OlegValter, the issue isn't with using brain power to look stuff up, it's with how much brain power people insist other people using. The elitists expect everyone to be as hyper specialized and hyper educated about a subject as they are, thus requiring just the same amount of knowledge about that subject before even searching. Some of the elitists seem to think everyone should apparently have a decade of experience in a subject before asking a question about that subject, but only after a month of doing research online and reading 100 books. Commented Apr 17, 2021 at 19:44

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