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The site's about pages stresses that what's great about this site is it's just Questions and Answers, no discussion or opinions or extra information. That's apparently supposed to be the draw, that you can come here for just straight up questions and answers.

But what I don't get is that I often see questions that are closed because the user didn't post his attempted solutions - usually posted when topics are closed by not having "minimal understanding." I get the point is to stop people from asking here instead of doing their own research, but doesn't that seem kind of petty and against the point of the site? After all if somebody asks a simple general question doesn't it just muddy the question to then have to read his specific (wrong) attempts, instead of just the general question and then the answer?

This site is apparently supposed to be a Q+A of all topics, so if somebody asks a basic question with a specific answer, wouldn't it be best just to answer it and not require him to make it a less readable or applicable question to people who find it in a google search?

For example I turn to this question "SQL - SUM based on another column" Now let me preface this by saying this is merely a small example, and I hope that people don't get so stuck on this example in particular and ignore the larger issue, because even if you disagree on the example I think the issue is still important. But in my opinion this should not have been closed (I did edit out a part admitting it was homework.)

While this was a homework question, the basic question (how do you filter SUMS of columns?) and answer (Using a having clause) is a useful thing to find if you don't know how to do it. And so when reduced to its most basic form I think the question is fine. Sure the guy didn't have "minimal understanding" but I'd rather see the question as is then have extra information from that of what he tried which isn't useful to me google searching it since I only care about the answer, not what this one specific person tried to do.

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    Can you tell us what you think is the purpose of the site?
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 13:39
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    As far as I knew it was a place meant to provide useful questions and answers, with no discussion or extraneous bits, to allow people to search and be a repository of information. Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 13:54
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    While it has sometimes been abused to dismiss askers here, Matt Gemmell's "What have you tried?" article is a good read on this subject.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:35
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    Not every question is answerable, it's that simple. Please see meta.stackexchange.com/a/215220
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:45
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  • I wish I had a better knack for asking questions. Those guys all got really high upvotes and Im at -10 <_< Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 19:09
  • Also I think this brings up the same points. People say that it's to make sure the user has done the necessary effort to deserve being helped. But if this site is supposed to be a reference for EVERYBODY then it shouldn't MATTER. Okay that person got an easy answer, but he's just helping everybody else with the same issue, which is the point. So to say that he needs to earn the right to be helped is hurting people that are benefitting from this "lazy" person's question. So people give extra information that isn't needed (which is a "distraction" and not supposed to be here) and detract Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 19:21
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    @user3790592 I wouldn't worry about your question's score on Meta, up and down votes are not used here to say whether the question was good or not, rather it's about whether they generally agree or disagree with what you're suggesting (although this generally mostly applies to proposed features).
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 19:31

5 Answers 5

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Showing your attempted solutions is necessary to get a useful answer. Consider:

Help I can't compile my C++ program in Visual Studio 2013

Someone answers with the instructions for how to compile. The user then comments on the answer

I know that but I'm getting a compiler error

Someone comments on that asking what the error is. The user pastes the entire error message including a line number. Someone comments asking to see that code. Etc etc etc.

When you shown what you've done, you save people from suggesting you try what you've already tried. You also give people the context they need to actually answer the question and solve your problem.

See also https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/202422/147247 on meta.

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  • That may be true in some cases, but surely not all cases and certainly not the case above. Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 13:54
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    for the case above the user includes nothing to show that they know what a SELECT statement is or how to execute one, or that they have ever heard of SUM - you can't establish how much detail to put in an answer when the user has included nothing about where they are starting from. Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 13:56
  • Does it matter? They'll be given the answer (which in this case was pretty simple) and then they'll know what to do. And somebody else who searches for the question will see the answer and know what to do. People are always talking on here about things being useful to other readers, and yet it seems that in cases like this they then ignore what is useful to other readers out of spite for somebody who may not have done enough effort. But the problem is you can't say the site is directed at both. Either you're providing useful answers to everybody or you're catering just to the question asker. Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 13:59
  • And to further what I said above, it isn't useful to anybody besides one person whether the question asker knows about SELECT or SUM. Since these questions and answers are APPARENTLY (from what people say on here) for not just the asker but EVERYBODY searching for it (hence why not being useful to anybody but the asker is thrown around as a reason for closing.) And so it isn't useful for THEM whether the asker knows anything about select or sum, and in fact it's probably best to write for a general audience - some of which will know that and some that won't Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:05
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    @user3790592 When you get to the point of explaining everything about everything then the scope of the answer is simply too large. You end up writing an entire book to answer a question if you can make no assumptions whatsoever about what the reader already knows. Such answers are quite simply not possible, and even if they existed, actually finding the information applicable to any given reader throughout all of what would need to be there would be entirely impractical. SO is about specific answers to specific questions; it's covering the long tail of programming questions.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:36
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    @user3790592 That doesn't mean that the question is only for just one person, it means that it's for people that are stuck at the same point in a particular problem. You simply can't write an answer to that example question that also works for someone who doesn't even know what SQL is; it just can't work. It can work for plenty of other people with a comparable level of experience, of which there certainly are others.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:37
  • I guess that's true, that you can't widen the scope too much. But I still the question as is was specific enough. The answer was a simple four line query. I think you can assume basic knowledge like what a select statement is, it seemed clear to me that the "Having" clause was the part he didn't know. Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:39
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    @user3790592 "it seemed clear to me that the "Having" clause was the part he didn't know", it's strange because I made different assumptions: I thought he'd know about SELECT but wouldn't necessarily have known about GROUP BY (so even less about HAVING, obviously).
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:44
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    @user3790592 And if you had been wrong in what the OP did or didn't understand, given that you and the other answers were simply guessing at what you thought the problem was, you could easily have been way more harmful than helpful. Ensuring that questions have enough information to be answerable without blind guessing results in better questions, better answers, and a much greater probably of people being helped.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:45
  • Im mostly referring to situations where enough information is given to answer the question (No matter what part he didn't know there was only one answer to that question, and it was given...whether the group by or having, the answer was there.) but it's closed anyways. Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:51
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    @user Please note that we do not want to become a "code writing service". We're more than happy to explain things somebody may not understand. We're not here to read the manual for you or write your code for you. As such, the question should clearly specify what the OP does understand and doesn't understand and where exactly we can jump in to fill gaps in the OP's knowledge. A question which merely "contains enough code to allow us to write more code" is not what we want to answer, because we don't know where to start explaining.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:57
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I think you're raising an interesting point that shows the tensions between the multiple goals and mechanisms of Stack Overflow.

On the one hand, it wants to be a repository of knowledge. On the other hand, it says that "Ask questions, get answers, no distractions". Trying to separate one aspect from the other too strictly simply does not work.

Questions are the seeds of any good Q&A thread on Stack Overflow. Hence, Stack Overflow generally wants questions. Questions themselves tend to come from problems users face: a user not facing a problem will quite simply not ask a question about that problem.

However, the idea is that questions are also meant to be sufficiently generic so that they can be searched for and be useful to others. This is where it becomes tricky.

  • A question with too many details regarding what you've wrongly tried will be far less generic. Some of these attempts could just be distractions. Other attempts might be good, if others make similar attempts and also search for those errors to land on that question.
  • Askers often use incorrect terminology (simply because they don't know, that's why they're asking the question indeed), so answers sometimes have to do a bit of "concept mapping" to provide an adequate solution.
  • Duplicate questions tend to be closed, pointing to a more generic question (we call some of them "canonical" questions), yet the explanations in the answers to the target question can be quite far away from the vocabulary used to describe the problem in the newer question.

The idea of providing too many details on your environment and what you've tried can play against the generalisation of the question unfortunately (so answerers could have to write little variants of very similar, but distinct things).

This is all a very fine balancing act, especially since you need to take into account the possible level of speciality you can expect from others reading that question later.

Assuming that Stack Overflow is primarily a repository of knowledge is difficult, because all the mechanisms are biased towards making it a Q&A site, where you get points for asking question and answering them. There is virtually no incentive for collaborative work towards a "greater good".

However, if you think of Stack Overflow as somewhere where you can get help, with the secondary effect of gathering useful knowledge, the mechanisms make more sense. Deep down inside anyone who asks a question does so because they'd like some help. From a "repository of knowledge" point of view, we are grateful to those who can ask good questions. From your point of view as an asker in need of help, putting as many details as you can will increase your likelihood of getting a suitable answer. From a "repository of knowledge" point of view, this will generally have the side effects of making the Q&A thread more interesting and relevant to anyone reading it. So yes, generally, as an asker, give an indication of what you've tried so that answerers don't have to anticipate all the possibilities (some of which may be completely irrelevant) and so that they can tailor their answers to the question, which makes the Q&A as a whole a more useful and meaningful block of information.

The problem in the question you mention is that the asker has done visibly very little research, in that you'd probably find this sort of information in a SQL book or tutorial.

Where I think there is a place for such questions is that we don't necessarily want the repository of knowledge we build to be a "dead" repository, where someone answers are collectively provided in a way that eventually becomes detached from questions. An encyclopaedia is also a repository of knowledge, but it will present you the information in the way it sees fit: getting to the right knowledge is difficult if you don't know what to look for, and there's generally no where you can ask.

In contrast, the strength of Stack Overflow is that we can actually tailor answers to problems, as they are expressed. In that sense, entry-level questions are not necessarily bad. They are however a real problem because of a lack of resources: there isn't an unlimited pool of answerers willing to spend their spare time answering for free what askers could have found if they'd spend a few hours reading a book. This is why there is a requirement to "demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved"

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  • Ask questions, get answers, no distractions. More like Ask questions, get closed. Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:44
  • @StefanoBorini not sure it's always "get closed", but there are surely distractions nowadays, either trying to keep some reasonable stuff open or getting rid of terrible questions.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:47
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    I just come from a obnoxious situation where a valid question with a valid answer has been closed just because 5 people decided that they didn't like a closing remark. I think that this form of moderation is unable to account for the fact that there are humans writing these questions, not beep boop robots complying to the specifications output provided waiting for input Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:57
  • @StefanoBorini This sounds quite similar to what I was talking about in this comment.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 15:01
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This site is apparently supposed to be a Q+A of all topics

That is not the goal.

The goal is to create a repository of knowledge - of useful questions and answers. Not of all questions and answers.

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    And why would that question in the linked post not be useful? It's a specific question with a specific answer, so I don't see why this would be something that would not be followed Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 13:52
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    The problem I have when people say things like "the goal is to create a repository of knowledge" is that they seem to forget where that knowledge gathered on SO comes from: it all starts with a question (and therefore someone with a problem to solve), from someone hoping to get help. Having one side of the coin and dismissing the other does not make sense.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 14:40
  • @Bruno if I understand correctly this was the way from the very start of Stack Overflow, wasn't it? See Optimizing For Pearls, Not Sand "We feel that the world is awash in questions, but not answers. Answers are the real unit of work in any Q&A; system. Therefore, the only logical thing to do is to maximize the happiness and enjoyment of answerers. If this means aggressively downvoting or closing unworthy and uninteresting questions, so be it..."
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 26, 2018 at 10:58
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The reason the user should generally post what they have tried or should have minimal understanding is that it's pointless having a question on StackOverflow or any other stack exchange site that is already answered well somewhere else on the internet.

If the user can find his or her answer somewhere else, with a fairly quick Google search, then there's no need to post a question. If the user is asked to post what they have tried, and then have tried nothing, it would suggest a quick Google Search is worth a go before posting a question. If they then find the answer, but they consider it not very well explained, then a question linking to the tutorial or whatever they found with some detail on which bit they misunderstood, and which bits they did manage (and how they implemented them), would be an appropriate question (because other users searching for the same topic may well have the same issue with that tutorial).

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  • I'm not really convinced this is always the case. There are plenty of tutorial or blog posts you can find on Google that will tell you how to do something the wrong way. Even if it seems well answered somewhere else, submitting the idea in an answer to the "SO voting machine" isn't necessarily a bad idea (of course, voters on SO can also be wrong, but the commenting system at least lets people highlight contention).
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 24, 2014 at 16:41
  • @Bruno I think it's reasonable for anyone that is interested in programming to check multiple links when they search for something on Google. If they then find two conflicting then that would be a perfectly useful question to post (provided they have searched stack overflow to find if it's been asked already). In the post, they would cite both links and give some detail on how they tried both or either and did some research, but got stuck because they didn't know if the blog post was correct or not. That shows effort, and the question will be much more warmly received.
    – MasNotsram
    Commented Jul 25, 2014 at 15:52
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Excellent post with "SO value" -13?

My question got immediately tagged as duplicate. Few seconds after some other "guru" down voted me because he apparently found the spelling not to his liking. On a C++ forum.

Half a day latter I posted an working solution (aka answer) but nothing has happened. Nobody reads down-voted questions.

Where are these gladiators coming from and so quickly at that? SO is not a forum anymore. It is some kind of virtual gladiators arena.

Perhaps this instant tagging should be prolonged for a few days until it is clarified by several people is it or is it not what the first one or two gladiators on duty thought it is.

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    "SO is not a forum anymore" - Stack Overflow was never a forum to begin with
    – Memor-X
    Commented Feb 26, 2018 at 1:11
  • You have no proof that the person who commented on your spelling down voted your post.
    – BSMP
    Commented Feb 26, 2018 at 5:18
  • @Memor-X ... my question was wrongly accused and down voted on top of the wrong accusations ... This is not a forum either. This is a kangaroo court inside gladiatorial arena.
    – user5560811
    Commented Feb 26, 2018 at 8:53
  • @BSMP I have no proof the person who commented on the spelling down voted my post. But the spelling issue is ridiculous, per se. I am looking for educated C++ comments not spelling. I think by now it is obvious my English is readable enough, but not native.
    – user5560811
    Commented Feb 26, 2018 at 8:56

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