45

One of the themes that comes up here from time to time is moderator workload, and a simple idea occurs to me that might reduce some hum-drum work required of moderators.

My guess is that flaggers will use the "no longer needed" flag much more than others, since there is a lot of fluff commentary on the site. There is already an algorithm that will auto-delete a comment if it attracts several of these, and (I suspect) if it is short and contains thanks.

I suggest that when a good flagger raises this flag, we look at their stats, and if their helpfulness rate is more than, say, 99%, we do this:

  • Flip a coin to decide if the comment will be hidden immediately (and the deletion is marked as neither helpful nor unhelpful)
  • If it is not, it goes to a moderator in the usual way (and is marked as helpful/unhelpful as usual)

The purpose of the coin flip is thus. We could allow good flaggers the power to delete fluff every time, but this would have two problems:

  • there would be no ongoing measure of their helpfulness, which could go downhill when users are given this power
  • it might be open to creeping abuse, e.g. deleting someone's remarks in frustration while debating a point

The levels we set the parameters at would be open to tuning, of course. Maybe the floor of helpfulness needs to be set at 98% with a minimum of 1000 helpful comment flags, for example. Or perhaps a user needs to have a particular badge.

The randomness that selects immediate hiding or ordinary moderator action could start at 0.5/0.5, and be tuned from there.

If this idea is of interest, I guess we'd need to start by examining some data. For anyone with access to the raw numbers of moderator stats, do you feel this could make a useful dent in moderator workload? I understand that this sort of flag is the quickest to handle, but perhaps moderator time would be better spent on more complex tasks like voting rings?

Notes

Related reading: How has the "No longer needed" comment flag affected moderators?

14
  • 4
    There is no "we", this is the kind of change that has to approved by CMs and implemented by SO devs. Very tall order these days. Surely this would be much more practical as a moderator tool to help them slay the flag queue. I'd be surprised if they didn't already cobble something like this together themselves. Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 12:19
  • 6
    Heh @Hans: "we" is the collective of committed SO users, moderators, and employees. It is indeed a development task, I don't see any way out of that.
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 12:22
  • 5
    "it might be open to creeping abuse, e.g. deleting someone's remarks in frustration while debating a point" - outright foul play isn't the only issue. Quite a few times I've flagged comments criticising my posts (or comments) because I thought they were a load of incoherent nonsense that would only confuse people and waste their time and so were better not existing. That's a good faith act on my part that aims to help the site, but at the same time I'm very obviously not a neutral or unbiased party, and I shouldn't be able to make that decision unilaterally without some layer of review.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 13:02
  • True @Mark, although there is an algorithm already that allows flaggers to immediately-delete items. So, if the incoherent comments you mention fit a certain pattern (the exact determinants being unpublished) then flaggers can self-delete those now. The point of my coin flip is to ensure that biased and unfair deletions risk being seen by a mod. They would then be rejected, reduce that user's helpfulness rating, and if they did this too often, they would be removed from the pool of immediate-deleters.
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 13:06
  • My comment helpfulness is presently 99.20% over 2,016 flags, and if my helpfulness were to drop to 98.9%, it could disqualify me from immediate-delete power. That would be an invisible and automatic decision behind the scenes.
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 13:09
  • 6
    Honestly, I don't see enough evidence of users flagging comments properly when using comment flags for this to be useful. A lot of people flag only some comments and leave the others unflagged, such that when we delete the flagged comments, what remains are unflagged comments that are completely disjointed and meaningless, the most common example by far being "Thanks" deleted and "You're welcome!" left behind. It's gotten to the point where I always have to click through to a post so I can see all the comments that actually need deleting besides the ones that were flagged.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 15:05
  • Thanks @BoltClock. Am I right in inferring that you believe that your view holds true for (say) 99%+ helpful comment flaggers too? By definition, mods presently think they are doing a good job, since mods agree with them the vast majority of the time.
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 15:09
  • (I see what you mean about partial flagging, but I'd rather some useless comments are removed than none at all. If the result is that a useless comment makes the conversation disjointed, readers will (should!) know that this stems from a comment deletion).
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 15:11
  • 1
    @Chris_Rands: on Meta, we handle such comments by visiting the commenter and throwing tomatoes at them. Sadly I'm out of throwable fruit at present, but I'll make a mental note for when I'm next at the supermarket :-).
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 15:14
  • I second @Mark's critical outlook on his own behavior – it was the very first thing that came to mind for me as well. Sure, if a comment thread between me and an OP leads to OP editing his question, I delete my comments and suggest "No longer needed" for the others. But can I really trust myself to stop at that point? As others (surely? it's not just me?), I have been the target of malign comments plenty of times. And dearly wishing I could just go click and the problem would go away.
    – Jongware
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 15:26
  • 5
    It's worth noting that something like this would have been more plausible before the flag reasons were cut down. As it sits there's basically just "offensive" and "everything else". With more specific comment flag reasons you could potentially have one/more narrow enough that all issues of that type could be handled by non-mods, but that's not the case at the moment.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 15:30
  • Yeah, I wasn't a great fan of that change @Servy, but I imagine it was done to simplify the UX, and would doubt that would be reversed now. Out of interest, what sort of sub-category in NLN category would you suggest should not be auto-handled in this way? "Too chatty" is ideal, and "material now added to the question" would be fine, I think.
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 17:36
  • @halfer I think the change was fine given that they were all handled by moderators, and moderators didn't need any additional info from the flagger in order to handle it, so there was just no point to any more granular classification. I know before the change I was a big advocate that obsolete flags would be seen by the author of the comment, as they're most qualified to judge if their comment is no longer applicable, but there are logistical problems with trying to do that. I agree too chatty is something I think non-mods ought to be able to judge.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 17:39
  • 1
    @halfer It's worth noting that one risk (which, granted, is also an issue for moderators) is that someone will comment pointing out a problem, the author will edit the post to try to fix it, but the fix won't succeed in removing the problem. People other than the author going to be able to tell if the edit adequately addressed the problem, or if it's still there. That's why I like the idea of obsolete flags going to the post author; they're most qualified to judge if any changes since they left their comment actually have made it obsolete or not.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 17:41

1 Answer 1

20

Here are the current stats for flags, as a snapshot of the moderator flag queue at the moment:

2208 Moderator Flags

  • 1172 × other…
  • 461 × not an answer
  • 178 × disputed low quality review (auto)
  • 149 × very low quality
  • 94 × duplicate answers (auto)
  • 82 × possible vandalism: deletions (auto)
  • 40 × too many comments (auto)
  • 10 × possible comment abuse: too many rude/NC (auto)
  • 8 × too many answers (auto)
  • 5 × excessively long (auto)
  • 5 × too many owner edits (auto)
  • 3 × too many recent answers (auto)
  • 1 × rollback war (auto)

303 Comment Flags

  • 246 × no longer needed
  • 37 × rude or abusive
  • 20 × in need of moderator intervention

Comment flags are generally the first to be burned down, because of how easy they are to handle. They also are a smaller portion of the overall flags. Now, that doesn't mean that they aren't worth addressing in some way.

I definitely could see some path towards letting the community handle more comment flags, and I've been advocating for some kind of new comment review in the fashion of the current Late Answers / First Posts review queues. However, I really don't like the idea of automatically applied comment deletion without some kind of secondary review.

Far too often, I see people who flag any polite comment that is even moderately critical of their answer or question. Even the best comment flaggers make bad calls on comments on their own posts. The urge to remove any criticism of your posts is too high.

There are real advantages to having at least one other uninvolved party review comment flags to verify them. That doesn't need to be a moderator, however, and maybe some kind of community review could help here.

At the very least, your proposal would need to apply only on comments that were not on the flagger's posts or that were not addressed to the flagger.

4
  • Thanks for the stats, that's very useful. Do you have access to the number of comment flags that are handled per day? I am wondering what sort of time can be saved on the NLN queue - of course it needs to be a demonstrable saving to justify the dev time.
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 15:35
  • I agree with the restriction about comments where a flagger would have an obvious conflict of interest, and that can be done easily and automatically. For my own flagging record, the vast majority of comment flags I raise are on posts that I have no connection to (except that I have edited them, usually).
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 16:07
  • 2
    @halfer And if the comment says "The edit some idiot made here has totally destroyed this post - it's totally wrong for [reasons]!"? Having edited the post is a connection; it seems to me that any automated conflict of interest detection would have to account for it, though perhaps it could exclude cases where the edit came after the comment chronologically.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 22, 2018 at 18:39
  • Maybe the exclusion should be as draconian as 'reviewer must not have commented on, voted on, answered or asked the question — no prior involvement in the question' (including no deleted comments or answers). That way, they're not previously involved. And maybe they need at least a silver badge in the top scoring tag? Or maybe that's a separate issue. I suspect that the computational load on 'no previous involvement' may be higher than I'd like to think. Commented Mar 24, 2018 at 0:25

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .