Timeline for Can we allow experienced comment flaggers to handle "no longer needed" themselves?
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17 events
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Mar 22, 2018 at 17:41 | comment | added | Servy | @halfer It's worth noting that one risk (which, granted, is also an issue for moderators) is that someone will comment pointing out a problem, the author will edit the post to try to fix it, but the fix won't succeed in removing the problem. People other than the author going to be able to tell if the edit adequately addressed the problem, or if it's still there. That's why I like the idea of obsolete flags going to the post author; they're most qualified to judge if any changes since they left their comment actually have made it obsolete or not. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 17:39 | comment | added | Servy | @halfer I think the change was fine given that they were all handled by moderators, and moderators didn't need any additional info from the flagger in order to handle it, so there was just no point to any more granular classification. I know before the change I was a big advocate that obsolete flags would be seen by the author of the comment, as they're most qualified to judge if their comment is no longer applicable, but there are logistical problems with trying to do that. I agree too chatty is something I think non-mods ought to be able to judge. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 17:36 | comment | added | halfer | Yeah, I wasn't a great fan of that change @Servy, but I imagine it was done to simplify the UX, and would doubt that would be reversed now. Out of interest, what sort of sub-category in NLN category would you suggest should not be auto-handled in this way? "Too chatty" is ideal, and "material now added to the question" would be fine, I think. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 15:30 | comment | added | Servy | It's worth noting that something like this would have been more plausible before the flag reasons were cut down. As it sits there's basically just "offensive" and "everything else". With more specific comment flag reasons you could potentially have one/more narrow enough that all issues of that type could be handled by non-mods, but that's not the case at the moment. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 15:26 | comment | added | Jongware | I second @Mark's critical outlook on his own behavior – it was the very first thing that came to mind for me as well. Sure, if a comment thread between me and an OP leads to OP editing his question, I delete my comments and suggest "No longer needed" for the others. But can I really trust myself to stop at that point? As others (surely? it's not just me?), I have been the target of malign comments plenty of times. And dearly wishing I could just go click and the problem would go away. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 15:20 | answer | added | Brad LarsonMod | timeline score: 20 | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 15:14 | comment | added | halfer |
@Chris_Rands: on Meta, we handle such comments by visiting the commenter and throwing tomatoes at them. Sadly I'm out of throwable fruit at present, but I'll make a mental note for when I'm next at the supermarket :-) .
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Mar 22, 2018 at 15:11 | comment | added | halfer | (I see what you mean about partial flagging, but I'd rather some useless comments are removed than none at all. If the result is that a useless comment makes the conversation disjointed, readers will (should!) know that this stems from a comment deletion). | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 15:09 | comment | added | halfer | Thanks @BoltClock. Am I right in inferring that you believe that your view holds true for (say) 99%+ helpful comment flaggers too? By definition, mods presently think they are doing a good job, since mods agree with them the vast majority of the time. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 15:05 | comment | added | BoltClock Mod | Honestly, I don't see enough evidence of users flagging comments properly when using comment flags for this to be useful. A lot of people flag only some comments and leave the others unflagged, such that when we delete the flagged comments, what remains are unflagged comments that are completely disjointed and meaningless, the most common example by far being "Thanks" deleted and "You're welcome!" left behind. It's gotten to the point where I always have to click through to a post so I can see all the comments that actually need deleting besides the ones that were flagged. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 13:09 | comment | added | halfer | My comment helpfulness is presently 99.20% over 2,016 flags, and if my helpfulness were to drop to 98.9%, it could disqualify me from immediate-delete power. That would be an invisible and automatic decision behind the scenes. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 13:06 | comment | added | halfer | True @Mark, although there is an algorithm already that allows flaggers to immediately-delete items. So, if the incoherent comments you mention fit a certain pattern (the exact determinants being unpublished) then flaggers can self-delete those now. The point of my coin flip is to ensure that biased and unfair deletions risk being seen by a mod. They would then be rejected, reduce that user's helpfulness rating, and if they did this too often, they would be removed from the pool of immediate-deleters. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 13:02 | comment | added | Mark Amery | "it might be open to creeping abuse, e.g. deleting someone's remarks in frustration while debating a point" - outright foul play isn't the only issue. Quite a few times I've flagged comments criticising my posts (or comments) because I thought they were a load of incoherent nonsense that would only confuse people and waste their time and so were better not existing. That's a good faith act on my part that aims to help the site, but at the same time I'm very obviously not a neutral or unbiased party, and I shouldn't be able to make that decision unilaterally without some layer of review. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 13:00 | history | edited | halfer | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 22, 2018 at 12:22 | comment | added | halfer | Heh @Hans: "we" is the collective of committed SO users, moderators, and employees. It is indeed a development task, I don't see any way out of that. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 12:19 | comment | added | Hans Passant | There is no "we", this is the kind of change that has to approved by CMs and implemented by SO devs. Very tall order these days. Surely this would be much more practical as a moderator tool to help them slay the flag queue. I'd be surprised if they didn't already cobble something like this together themselves. | |
Mar 22, 2018 at 12:00 | history | asked | halfer | CC BY-SA 3.0 |