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I was reviewing a question in the MATLAB tag with no sign of research (the guy asked about step-by-step solution). I wrote the following comment:

Welcome to Stack Overflow, We want to help you solve your problem. but we would love if you learned to solve it yourself. By showing us what you did we can advise you, push you further, make you a better programmer along the way. So please show us what you have done so far and what problems you are stuck on.

Then in a moment an answer comes by (from the ~6k rep user)

and I wrote the following comment:

spoiling a kid does not make a man out of him. Hitting him will make him a psychopath. Teaching him how to be a man will bring the best of him to life. It might be the correct answer, but I do not think it is the best way to answer question here on SO.

then this happened

enter image description here

This is obviously not what I expected. I'm not saying it is him. Note that these are the not accepted answers and the 0 vote questions of mine.

So was it my mistake. Or the unknown downvoters?

Note: in my defence the proverb is all what Stack Overflow is all about. We hate homework Do My work people. We want people to be nice. We would love if people start doing some research before asking, so good question are asked here more than rarely.

If I offended the guy, I would like to apologies and will write that in a comment.

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    If someone tells you a fact, would that be rude?
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 0:33
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    @Braiam I will pay him for his time. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 0:40
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    @Braiam Can be. Saying that people with African ancestry have a higher chance to suffer from sickle-cell anemia is not rude. There is a rude way to say that though...
    – Oleg
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 0:59
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    @Oleg when I use this site I expect to meet with the world. The be nice and ask before you shoot is my way of approaching things. However fair point. I think I will start to downvote/flag and move on. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 1:02
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    @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout Which is a good reason to keep comments short and on point. Give people less to misinterpret. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 1:30
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    It is not unusual to get two SO users to snipe at each other over a lousy lazy question. Pretty pointless, the question is very rarely worth it. Most notable is that nobody actually did anything about it. Vote, don't snipe. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 15:30
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    Tiny Giant and I had a quick conversation in comments about something like this a while ago, the downvotes follow site guidelines, but after reading the post in question, I don't understand why the question was closed, while I haven't used the exact API that the answerer used, it appears that the code would work, and the answer is nowhere near too long. If the majority of SE users really want only questions with research effort, just be transparent about it and make a real close reason for it, then clean out all of the old zero effort posts.
    – jrh
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 20:07
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    Regardless of whether or not you were correct to chastise the person in public, them massdownvoting your posts was not an appropriate response.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 3:21
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    Would you consider this question low effort: stackoverflow.com/questions/897366/…
    – mnistic
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 13:58
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    You do not think that there was information about pointers 8 years ago? The question literally asked "how do double pointers work?" Does that imply any research effort?
    – mnistic
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 14:20
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    I understand that the site grows with time, but questions like that drive a lot of traffic to it, so maybe that's not such a bad thing. Asking google about double pointers leads you to that page today.
    – mnistic
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 14:23
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    Be kind always. We all have our personal challenges that others know nothing about. Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 14:42
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    Did you do any research before asking this question, such as checking how Stack Overflow handles serial downvotes? Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 3:19
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    I don't really like to think in terms of rudeness when it comes to Stack Overflow, people abuse that state of mind too much to direct away from having to be personally responsible for doing the right thing. It is very likely that people will see education where none is asked as rude - that's their problem to solve, not yours.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 9:15
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    @dfd I believe that magic numbers in titles are click baits. For example, I saw the title and 933 rep caught my attention. I believe rouding to 1k makes the title more generic and less distracting. However, if you don't agree, feel free to rollback. You can find the rollback option here.
    – Zanon
    Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 9:39

6 Answers 6

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To answer the title question, pointing out the purpose/direction of the site is not inherently rude. It doesn't matter how much rep either party has; that's besides the point. Everyone needs a reminder now and again. Even as a fairly high rep user, I've seen easy questions that I knock out a quick answer for, when really I should have looked for a duplicate or close voted it. The times that I get downvoted or called out for answering, I realize that I deserved to be called out, and retract my answer if necessary.

That said, your response could very well be read as rude. Whether or not that was your intent, I can't say, but the slightly inflated language you use (hitting, spoiling, psychopath) could trigger some people. I don't find it necessarily rude, but I think you could have worded it better.

As for the downvoting fallout, the script should kick in at some point and detect and reverse the serial downvoting.

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    Definitely was not my intent to be rude. I'm an arab and a father. those words does not mean the same from this end of the screen. but FWIW I will rewrite my comment and apologies to the user Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 0:39
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    @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout I don't know if an apology is strictly necessary. It could be argued that that'll just lead to "chatty" comments that will need to cleaned up by a mod later. I would just said keep your comments short and to the point. If you start using the site more, you'll realize that it's just not worth the effort and time to post giant comments at every opportunity. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 0:41
  • Ok, Thank you for your advise, I will start using it. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 0:43
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    "The times that I get called out for answering"... I mean, I am glad that you take the high road in these situations and keep contributing, but the behavior of calling out other users for answering often leads to those users simply not answering anything on the site anymore. That it is so widespread is a significant problem in my opinion.
    – Travis J
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 7:18
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    @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout Im an arab and if I translate what you wrote to arabic language I would also get annoyed.. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 10:57
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    @PeterHaddad not so much if you used مخنث,مجنون,تعنيف , I'm from algeria, my mom used to tell me if I done something wrong she will kill me, but here I'm alive and never sau here attempting to kill me (however my bottom changed color since :D). Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 11:39
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    @PeterHaddad I realized that my comment was provoking and I will try to not write one until I reach better wording. Thank you. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 11:41
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    @TravisJ I think it depends entirely on how it's handled. If someone gives me a polite reminder like the one that TheMayer describes, I don't get bent out of shape. I know I'm in the wrong, so I have little case to argue. I've definitely had people be dicks about it though, and I agree, that is a problem. Especially when the person answering is new and not familiar with the site, we could be gentler at times. In general though, shouldn't people answering bad/closable question be reminded? I don't see the reminder/callout as a problem, just how it's handled occasionally. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 13:34
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    @TravisJ The real problem is a lack of universally accepted standards - some people have no problem with these questions (or don't mind helping anyway), others see them as the bane of the site's existence (and most can't seem to act consistently across different questions). When those users interact on such a question, however politely, someone will end up unhappy. Preventing comments like these just shifts the unhappiness towards those disapproving of the question. Rudeness is always a problem and should be flagged as such. Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 13:22
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    @TravisJ Now politely telling a user to expand their question (or add it) by asking "What have you tried?" gets you a mean red message. It does really make me not want to answer questions.
    – Elin
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 13:39
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    I would say that you should not have included the first part, not because the specific words are offensive (they could be, but aren't necessarily) but because it's condescending. I would've not said anything, and simply downvoted the question and possibly the answer, but if I were to have said something I probably would've kept it to "-1 Answering questions like this promotes bad behavior by questions". Honestly, simply downvoting the question and leaving it at that is best: the community will vote with their votes, and likely simply ignore this answer.
    – Joe
    Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 22:39
  • @Joe When I answered this, I was considering "is this rude" and "is this best practice" to be separate. I think the latter has been addressed already. Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 22:44
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Don't get too hung up on these situations. If you feel like actioning the post, fine, but at least keep in mind that there are many successful posts at Stack Overflow like this one:

enter image description here

Many people have burnt out attempting to prevent this type of question from being on the site, or even from removing it after the fact.

The sad truth is that being too aggressive towards these types of minimal effort posts which a lot of people actually do end up using is that it hurts the exchange.

Focus on the positive. If you want to answer a question, then answer it. If someone else wants to answer a question, then let them. Right now, what Stack Overflow suffers from most is burn out in the community as a result of trying to enforce interpreted rules on other community members.

Although many users believe that telling other users not to answer helps the exchange, the results are in. It clearly does not. The amount of answers per question at Stack Overflow is in bad shape. In fact, it is the lowest it has ever been.

enter image description here

As for your comment itself, I don't know that what you said was rude per se, but it certainly isn't productive. Also, just because you left that comment absolutely does not warrant the targeted downvotes you received. Don't worry too much about those though, because there is a script for revenge downvotes which will invalidate those votes given how obvious it was.

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    I fully agree with you 100%. I always wondered about this, I see old questions with very minimum effort and if you these kind of questions these days they get closed or deleted. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 10:53
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    Your answer needs a post of its own, that's how much its important! Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 10:59
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    I'm with @PeterHaddad your post is a reminder to all community members of where StackOverflow is heading. I got a lot of these comments (like the one I posted) the first time I started using this site. So I took it as a best practice to leave a comment reminding people about the rules here. However that chart is makes me sad. This site is the best that you can get and seeing it go down will be a nightmare I would hope never to see. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 11:32
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    I don't think the chart tells the whole story, and reading what you are reading from it is misguiding. You have to take into account that having vastly more questions the average quality question goes down significantly, and many more will end up being closed (hence, less answers for those). The answerer pool doesn't grow at the same speed, and the proliferation of questions drives the ration q/a inexorably down. That's why it is so important to try to rein the flood, close down bad questions as soon as possible, and do not encourage questioners into making more poor quality posts.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 11:45
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    Where we are now, many of the obvious questions that programmers search for every day have now been asked, which means that the questions that are asked are harder, and less people are able to answer them. Thus, as time goes on, we absolutely would expect the answers/question to go down.
    – halfer
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 17:38
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    Finally, given the site's popularity, we absolutely do need to defend against help vampires who would abuse community goodwill to get folks to do their work for them. In the tags I follow, I frequently see lazy questions featuring no prior effort and it is good we close them quickly.
    – halfer
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 17:39
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    -1 for extremely questionable statistics that don't attempt to correct for any of the dozens of possible conflating factors, show a correlation of comments asking people to stop answering lousy question, nor explain why the metric given actually relates to site health in any fundamental way. This graph is not even wrong. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 22:52
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    I fail to see how the question about git relates to the question in discussion. "What is the difference between A and B?" is imho totally different from "Here is my specification, write my code" questions.
    – BDL
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 11:12
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    +1 to @NathanTuggy. See also the questions and answers separately - that doesn't tell a story nearly as dire as the graph you've shown. Also, logically, an answers-to-questions ratio tending to 1:1 doesn't seem particularly distressing - it would probably make more sense to look at the percentage of unanswered questions (but that still doesn't tell you much about overall site health or the cause of it). Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 12:56
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    That's a short, on target, well written question that is exactly what people would search for. Unfortunately it would get beat out of existence under the current rules since if you did the research to answer it why would you ask.
    – Elin
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 13:42
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    Actually spending time on meta makes you not want to answer or ask questions because it's all about how awful all the questions and answers are and how much people hate users. I've been on projects like that, where people come to hate the users, and it is just not going to end well.
    – Elin
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 13:51
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    @Elin Exactly. The site's become overrun by bureaucrats who are spending an awful lot of time complaining about the users not following the rules, instead of helping them. It's almost like they don't want any new users.
    – mnistic
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 15:07
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    Lack of new users is not a problem that Stack Overflow suffers from. Quite the opposite.
    – jscs
    Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 13:32
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    @mnistic: it looks like you read various remarks on help vampirism and decided that your hobby-horse about "bureaucrats" was more important. I'm a bureaucrat in that sense - I think the rules are important, for the reasons stated above. If you disagree with this, feel free to expand on why. If your view is that everything is on-topic, that's just going to turn Stack Overflow into Reddit, and the quality will drop like a stone. I don't know if you're a frequent Meta reader, but this theme has been covered a great deal already.
    – halfer
    Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 14:43
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    Indeed, hostility and elitism exhibited at SO is not helping anyone - readers, participants and SO alike. In a place where answers to questions are sought, bringing artificial restrictions to questions and answers does not help anyone. No research or not, if an answer is exactly what someone is looking for, it is valid for that person. Apparently, difference in between git pull and git fetch was one of them.
    – unity100
    Commented Nov 20, 2017 at 21:34
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Giving advice on Stack Overflow is fine, but it's worth being careful how you do it, especially if English is not your first language.

Your first comment to the OP is excellent. I agree there is value in encouraging OPs to make an effort (for their own benefit, but also as something of a protection against an increase in the free-labour questions we get these days).

Your second comment carries with it the implication that the OP is someone who needs to be taught about "manliness", which is overblown and ridiculous, and perhaps stems from an aphorism that is not English in origin. Moreover, your remark "I do not think it is the best way to answer question here on SO" does not explain what, in your opinion, would be a better approach.

In the second kind of case - where someone has helped someone who has not shown any effort - I also try to intervene here. It is common with homework questions. I will say something like:

This answer looks to be very helpful. However, we try to encourage people to help themselves in the first instance, and quick answers that are given to closable questions can work against that goal. If this is [since this is] a homework, would you consider in the future giving more of a partial answer, or waiting until the OP has constructed a question featuring evidence of prior effort? Thank you.

In writing this I have ensured I have praised their work, thus trying to get them on-side, before delivering a gentle criticism. It's worth remembering that it can be dispiriting to make a great effort on a good answer before someone says that it is not welcome, for a reason that the writer finds initially arcane.

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    I will add this to my Good Comments collection and start using it for the same intent. Thank you for sharing this. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 23:30
  • You're welcome @Nasreddine. Feel free to adjust it to suit each case in which it is used.
    – halfer
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 23:33
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    Carcigenicate's answer addresses the title, the second comment and the downvoting I got. Yours addresses the first comment, the second comment and gives an excellent alternatif. TheMayer gave a polite proverb that could be used. Is it possible to maybe one of you edit his answer and includ all of this (mentioning the other two of course) so I could accept it. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 23:43
  • we could also create a community answer and include all three in it. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 23:47
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    @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout That's not necessary. All the answers are available to be viewed by anyone who reads the question. Compiling all the answers together would just make the "originals" unnecessary, which isn't ideal. The accept is just the answer you felt best answered the question. It doesn't have to necessarily encompass everything. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 23:48
  • People tend to contribute their own thing, so there is no need to create a compiled answer. Just accept a random one, or one that you would like to highlight.
    – halfer
    Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 23:50
  • @Carcigenicate Understood. I will think about it and accept. Commented Nov 18, 2017 at 23:50
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    Re "manliness" - Might be worth pointing out that this could be interpreted as sexist (regardless of how it was intended). I'd personally be quite offended if I saw someone post that, frankly.
    – Kevin
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 0:10
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    @Kevin: absolutely, and exclusionary too. I tend to see some versions of "manliness" as coercive gender expectations, and the most toxic forms of that give rise to sexism anyway, so they're part and parcel of the same mode of potentially unhealthy thinking.
    – halfer
    Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 11:48
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Let me highlight the personal aspect of the problem.

Others have already explained it well enough that your comment and actions were fine and you're completely right. Not answering blatantly low-quality questions is something I've been advocating and what all of us should be doing!

What happened is that you ran into a new character in the tag. That user has recently appeared on the radar as one who answers all sorts of effortless questions, is prone to revenge downvoting and calling others names when he's facing the consequences of his actions. I can thank him for teaching me the word pillock, something he called downvoters of one of his answers in a now-deleted comment. He's known to answer blatant duplicates, and what's worse, I've even seen him 1. leave a comment for the asker that their question is too broad, 2. answer the post, 3. vote the question to close (all on the same question). I've also seen him copy the answer from a duplicate target and post that as an answer (with trivial modifications and no attribution), even though they've had more than enough reputation to vote-to-close as a duplicate.

In other words, that specific user is the epitome of how not to behave on this site, and we as a community should do everything we can to inhibit these behaviour patterns. Vote/flag to close, downvote when merited. I'm sorry for the downvotes you got in retaliation; you're not the first nor the last person to see this from that user. Apologies are unnecessary on your side.

What really matters is that you keep doing what you do. Pressure effortless askers, flag (later close-vote) low-quality and off-topic questions, and try to educate answerers that spoon-feed lazy askers. You'll see that quite a lot of such answerers are unaware that their behaviour is unhealthy for the website, and they will be open to constructive criticism. Good to have you here, and thanks for trying to keep down the noise on Stack Overflow :)

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    I'm glad to help and I'm not planning to stop. I have seen some of his answers and you are right that user do have some unacceptable behaviors here in SO. Thank you. Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 23:00
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Welcome to Stack Overflow, where the questions are made up and the rep doesn't matter.

Seriously though, you did the right thing. Some users treat Stack Overflow as a place to get their homework done for them, others treat it as an opportunity to amass irrelevant internet points, and others remember that imaginary internet points are irrelevant in comparison to the goal of Stack Overflow: ensuring high-quality content. You fall into the 3rd group, the 6k rep user falls into the 2nd group, and you should be proud that you are doing your bit to keep the site's quality high.

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    Stack Overflow changed me both as programmer and a human been. I will not stop offering help here because of loosing some imaginary internet points. Your answer means a lot for me thank you, I really appreciate it. Commented Nov 19, 2017 at 23:07
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I've left a comment on a post before, to a similar effect. The question was one where the user didn't really know how to use a debugger, and if he had, he wouldn't have asked the question. The problem with his code would have been obvious to him had he been able to step through and examine the values of the expression.

A user with higher rep than me left a fairly simple answer pointing out the mistake, which was probably correct. I think what he should have done was to show how the debugger could have been used to break on that line, evaluate the expression, then fill in the correct code.

So, in the discussion (it was polite), I added a proverb - "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."

I don't think he took that as an insult, but rather as a reminder that just handing out candy isn't always the best way to teach new programmers how to code well.

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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 21, 2017 at 18:15

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