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Recently I posed a honest answer for the popular question, which was not a response to any other post but the question asked, and which tone was absolutely neutral:

There should be a dedicated input field for the error message. When implemented, it will improve the process dramatically, as it will let a system to provide a correct list of suggested answers, not to mention other benefits like correct formatting, less discussion in the comments, better answers etc.

This field obviously should be made non-required and could be left empty.

First, it was attacked by a troll, and I made a mistake taking a bait but later I fixed the issue.

Then a moderator came along, with strange accusations and deleted my answer, saying:

You are slipping again. Please post answers that are not sarcastic responses to other posts

I cannot think of any explanation other than a strong prejudice from a moderator. How could this situation be resolved?

EDIT. The answer below is just a stream of unfounded accusations and slandering. Paying no attention to my word above, another mod just drove a steamroller over me, calling my post an intentional

rant, trash-talk, or insult an abstract population of users

and then telling a completely twisted course of events, telling me that I wrote my answer to spite the other user, when my post is clearly written before theirs.

What is going on here? Don't I deserve even a benefit of doubt, a slightest attention to my word? Let alone a more or less accurate investigation?

For reference, the actual course of events:

I posted my answer first enter image description here

and the other user enter image description here

So it's impossible for me to post my answer to spite them, unless I've got a Time Machine, of course.

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    Context: I commented on the answer with something like "What if there is no error message?" After which YCS edited in that last "This field..." line, preceded with H1-sized: "A note for the casual nitpickers:". I edited out the "nitpicking" comment, but YCS rolled it back, and went on prodding me on my own answer. So yes, I was obviously "trolling". My feedback was in no way meant to be constructive, or a suggestion to improve the answer.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 10:12
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    The mod deleted my answer after this situation was filly resolved and accused me in writing the entire post to spite someone, which is simply not true. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 10:15
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    After which you re-posted the answer, instead of getting in contact with the mod, to explain the misunderstanding...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 10:16
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    Yes. I don't complain about deleting that one. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 10:18
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    Sorry you are feeling so paranoid, but I simply responded to flags on the post. A fellow moderator then pointed out you reposted the very thing I had just deleted.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 10:28
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    @YourCommonSense: well, you do have a long history on this site. You have improved enormously, the comment was meant as a reminder of your progress.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 10:54
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    I consider this latter comment a hypocrisy. To delete my answer to remind me of my progress sounds like a mockery. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 11:17
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    I found myself extremely surprised by siding with you on this one. And then you go and post something like "What is going on here? I am on meta.stackoverflow.com or somewhere through the looking glass? Is there any justice after all?"...
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 11:35
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    I can see why they weren't happy with A note for the casual nitpickers: and I can see why they would delete that answer if you added it back in after they edited it out or warned you about it but if they didn't I'm not sure why they deleted it. Cody provides some reasons but they don't make a lot of sense to me. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 12:04
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    It seems to me that they got the timeline wrong (they thought you posted after Cerbrus). The edit Cerbrus made seems enough for me. I may have removed the emphasis on the word obviously as well but I don't see a good reason to delete the post.
    – user2285236
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 12:14
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    @yivi sorry, I don't buy it. One mistake is ok. Mods are used to act swiftly, etc. etc. Then I posted here on Meta. There is no need to be in hurry with the answer, one could investigate the whole situation, and then post. And then this second "mistake" makes it worse. Too much for a mistake, if you ask me. And.. what about "personal accusations" in the post below? There is a lot. Though I agree with you on "it won't help me". Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 12:25
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    Neither Cerbrus trolled you, nor Cody lied (maybe got that facts wrong, but being wrong != lying). Spouting this things really weaken you arguments, even on this where the facts are on your side. I'm pretty sure that if instead of being this abrasive an accusatorial you just pointed the facts of the case when necessary, your post would have been restored some time ago. Doing it the way you did just muddled the waters for everyone.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 13:01
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    @yivi lie or not lie, it remains a big fat respectable post telling tales about my humble person with modest "sorry" in the comments. Looks like I should feel dead grateful they didn't ban me for their own mistake this time. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 13:09
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    Also, you didn't use freehand arrows. Not cool.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 13:12
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    @yivi by the way, regarding the second "mistake". Cody had my words to deal with, where I clearly stated that my intentions was honest. He didn't gave a damn. I wish you were only half as forgiving towards me as you are towards the mods. My mistakes "weak my arguments", "muddle the waters" and in all could be used against me. While their mistakes are... just mistakes, come on, nobody's perfect. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 14:06

3 Answers 3

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As a relatively neutral observer, allow me to follow the facts as I can reconstruct them:

Recently I posed a honest answer for the popular question, which was not a response to any other post but the question asked, and which tone was absolutely neutral:

According to the revision history, the first version of that post, made at 07:34:46Z, did not include the statement, "This field obviously should be made non-required and could be left empty."

The second revision includes this annotation, but above it is a header-sized note "A note for the casual nitpickers:". According to Your Common Sense, this was added in response to Cerbrus asking about this.

I find it difficult to characterize this statement as "absolutely neutral".

The third revision is by Cerbrus, who removed the header-sized note. The next two revisions consist of Your Common Sense putting the note back. 30 minutes after that, Your Common Sense removed the header-sized note, leaving it in the state it was in when the moderators eventually deleted it.

So I would characterize the beginning of this question as being... misleading. It is technically true, in that it shows the answer as it appeared before it was deleted. But moderators are perfectly capable of taking into account the edit history of an answer when choosing whether to delete it.

That doesn't mean I agree with the deletion; it merely means that the revisions on it are perfectly valid evidence one way or another.

Then a moderator came along, with strange accusations and deleted my answer, saying:

You are slipping again. Please post answers that are not sarcastic responses to other posts

This does not represent a valid reason to delete the post. There's no evidence that the answer was a response to any other answer on that page. The answer did contain a response to a comment on the answer, but that's perfectly valid to do.

The accusation of being "sarcastic" is... odd. I wouldn't characterize "A note for the casual nitpickers:" as being "sarcastic". That being said, the tone of this statement could reasonably be characterized as over aggressive and confrontational. Cerbrus's removal of that statement with the comment "be nice" is entirely appropriate.

I cannot think of any explanation other than a strong prejudice from a moderator. How could this situation be resolved?

I do not agree that the deletion of the post was warranted. The reasoning provided for that deletion was incorrect. And while I believe that your initial header-sized statement violated the "Be nice" policy, you did willingly delete it (though only after re-adding it, which likely led to the flag), and you did so before moderator intervention.

So I would say that restoring the answer would be a reasonable action.

That being said:

What is going on here? Don't I deserve even a benefit of doubt, a slightest attention to my word?

As I understand it, your history of behavior on this site has been... colorful. That is, this is not the first time you've done things.

The "benefit of the doubt" is typically reserved for people who haven't fallen afoul of the rules before, for people whose records are clean and whose behavior is above board. So it's not unreasonable for moderators to take the word of people trying to clean up the site over the word of someone who already has a history of doing inappropriate things.

Basically, what I'm saying is that, given your situation, putting mast-head statements like "A note for the casual nitpickers:" is basically a magnet for attracting problems for you. You need to be posting better than the average poster.

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    You make a good argument here, and after looking things over I've undeleted the answer. In its present state, it's perfectly fine, but if an edit war or other drama starts again, I won't have much patience for that. I respect Cody and Martijn's judgment on this, and understand why this happened in the context of everything that has gone on.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 15:58
  • Ok, it's clear now. A slightly unrelated question.The last sentence is written out of assumption that I do care for my posts on Meta. For a neutral observer, what are the odds that anything suggested in more fortunate answers will ever be actually implemented? Honestly, what's your take on it? Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:00
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    @YourCommonSense: That's kind of OT for this thread, but SE has maintained that they are working on some kind of update for the ask question page. Whether any particular suggestion goes in is up to them, but they do seem to recognize the need to do something. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:18
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    Ok, thank you. I am just under the impression that the only improvement I've seen for ages is the new navigation bar, while such surveys are rather regular. To make it clear: I do care for the suggestion itself. I wrote it not to spite someone or to plot something. I just caught the link on the sidebar and took the opportunity to share. But I've little illusions whether it will be ever taken into account, no matter the presentation. It was the sense of injustice that drove me off the track. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:25
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    The injustice is in how brash you are and expect people to put up with it. Even as Nicol Bolas gives you a very good answer, you seem to fail that the problems in this whole chain of events are rooted and started with your rude behavior. Take responsibility for your very rude behavior being the cause of this whole mess, and stop trying to lay it at the feet of other people who are probably sick of putting up with such brashness.
    – user4843530
    Commented Oct 20, 2017 at 18:36
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In fact, we moderators discussed and agreed upon the deletion of a number of non-answers to that Meta question.

The question itself was an honest attempt to solicit feedback from the community on something that we've been asking the team to implement for a very long time—something that many hope will improve question quality, an issue which is very near and dear to the hearts of veteran users. I, for one, am very pleased to finally see an indication that the team is doing something on this front, after years of promises that they would...someday. It might not be perfect, it certainly won't solve everything, but it's way past time to do something, and this is an idea that has garnered quite a lot of support. Clearly, people think it's a good idea. Now, the team who will be responsible for implementing it has come to the community, seeking further input and refinement. This is exactly what they should be doing.

When community members respond to this with hostile, biting sarcasm, if not outright trolling, it's just totally unwelcome, unhelpful, and toxic. It also discourages the team from bothering to ask us for our input in the future, which is a precedent that I feel pretty strongly about avoiding.

If you have an idea on how to structure the template message, or even a thoughtful reason why we shouldn't do that at all, then you are welcome to post it as an answer. We won't be deleting those. But if you just want to rant, trash-talk, or insult an abstract population of users, then we will be deleting that. The pruning will be more aggressive when it appears in the answer box than when it appears in a comment, but the "Be Nice" policy applies on Meta, too.

Regarding your answer in particular, the history (which you don't quote here) is primarily what motivated its deletion. You and Cerbrus got into a little spat, starting in comments underneath his answer, continuing with the posting of your answer, and peaking with a series of edits to your answer. We got flags about this, and we acted on them. It isn't a moderator's job to babysit users and teach them how to get along with each other. When content is causing problems, we remove it.

Your motivation for writing the answer was pretty clearly an attempt to respond to Cerbrus's answer and continue the fight that had begun underneath that answer. Is it possible that we misjudged your motivation? Maybe.

On the other hand, your turning around and immediately re-posting the exact same answer, along with a threatening-sounding moderator flag, did not exactly inspire confidence that you were making a genuine attempt to answer on either occasion. Nor does this Meta question, where you just straight up call Cerbrus a troll.

Why did Martijn say "You are slipping again?" Because you've been warned countless times about rude comments, trolling answers, and other unconstructive behavior. Yes, when we start receiving flags on your answers, we do put two and two together. Note that this is not prejudice, as the term implies evaluation of a person based on a perceived or actual group membership. Interpreting your actions within the context of previous behavior on this website is not discrimination, and has nothing to do with your membership in a particular social group, nor is it lacking in factual basis. Furthermore, we are open to being proven wrong. Hoping to be, in fact, as you've been told countless times in private messages: we value your expert knowledge in technical fields, and your willingness to share it, but we remain concerned about your tendency to share it in unconstructive ways. The comment was meant as a warning about how your behavior was being perceived, both by the community and by moderators.

If you don't like that, there's at least one other justification for deleting the answer, and that's that it was redundant. Whether you were attempting to respond to it or not, Cerbrus's answer already said the same thing yours did: there should be a dedicated, yet optional, field for the error.

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    Just to clarify: His answer was there (~30m) before mine. His "nitpicking" edit was in response to my comment asking about cases where there is no error message.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 10:58
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    I don't get your post. What "sarcasm" you are talking about? Can't you please be more specific, naming sentences or words that are considered "hostile, biting sarcasm, if not outright trolling" in the original post. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 11:29
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    WTF "Your motivation for writing the answer was pretty clearly an attempt to respond to Cerbrus's answer and continue"? I commented his post AFTER he came to troll me. AFTER, you hear? Stop repeating that lie. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 11:30
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    Completely in support of the reasoning in your introduction, and glad to see you folks considering and shepherding things so carefully. But I think YCS is the victim of a misperceived situation here. It's certainly not a particularly detailed suggestion, but I have to stretch to read it sarcastically, and the timestamps do prove that it wasn't a response to Cerbrus, which seems to have been the main point against it.
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 12:19
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    @YourCommonSense, mixing up the post deletion with accusations of other users trolling you is what makes supporting you harder than it should. Yes, your post probably should not have been deleted. But Cerbrus didn't troll you, and ranting about this just detracts from your credibility.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 12:21
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    Yeah, I missed the timestamps. Sorry. It appears that the moderator initially involved put too much trust into the flagger, and then I into him. Given the unconstructive direction in which this has proceeded, however, I am quite disinclined to restore the answer.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 12:21
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    Just a piece of advice: If you really think I'm trolling, flag my comments. Don't resort to name-calling.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 12:52
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    @YourCommonSense: 1: Neither was "This field obviously should be made non-required and could be left empty.", yet your OP seems to pretend that it was. 2: But you didn't remove it. Indeed, you put it back when it was removed by Cerbrus. Oh, you removed it eventually, but you clearly wanted it there. 3: Again, I don't agree with the "sarcasm" characterization, but the broad point that your tone was inappropriate? That I can agree with. Especially when you put the notation back. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 15:01
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    @YourCommonSense: "Your ability to follow it seems quite selective." And your persecution complex seems quite fully formed. I specifically noted that you did "eventually" remove it. That doesn't change the fact that you put it there, or that you put it back after it was removed. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 15:11
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    @YourCommonSense: What did I falsely accuse you of? I accused you of putting it in the post, and putting it back when it was removed. And I explicitly noted that you did indeed remove it after that. Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 15:13
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    Your answer paints a completely wrong picture, how about updating it after you realized you were wrong? Wouldn't restoring @YourCommonSense answer and deleting the later be fair? I know that you don't care about moderating fairly but maybe it's about time you start doing that?
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 15:28
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    @Oleg - "Don't care about moderating fairly" takes things too far. I've had respect for Cody's thoughtfulness for a long time, well before he became a moderator. Since then, he's demonstrated solid judgment, and you can read many of the detailed, well-thought-out arguments he's made for our actions on Meta. Your Common Sense is the most flagged user in the history of the site, and the only reason they are still allowed to participate is due to personal advocacy from SE employees. It is a challenge for any SO moderator to deal with them, given the years of abuse we've dealt with.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:09
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    "He doesn't care if I think what he did was fair" != "Doesn't care about moderating fairly". A bit of a stretch, isn't it? He can care moderate fairly without giving a flying cucumber about your opinion. Caring about what @Oleg thinks is not a prerequisite for fairly minded moderation.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:24
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    I insist that there is a world of difference between caring about “users opinions” and “@Oleg ‘s opinion”. Particularly if the comment was made in a context where it implied a particular opinion about a particular set of circumstance. Disagree away.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:38
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    @BradLarson Cody completely misjudged the situation, and posted a wildly inaccurate and inflammatory answer. In response to being informed that the post is inaccurate the response is to...do nothing except to say that the moderation action should stay despite the reasoning given for its deletion being completely wrong. One would expect that the inaccurate and highly inflammatory statements to be removed, and either the post be restored, or accurate reasons for its deletion be given.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 17:10
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As Nicol Bolas made an excellent analysis on the situation, I've only a little to add. As a supplement to this case, I'll try to explain why I took the comment I've got for the trolling.

The comment was like

What if there is no error message?

First, this question makes no sense in the context of the original post. One could leave such a comment under any other answer: given a generic solution is requested, there will be edge cases for sure where it won't fit. It goes without saying. Then, why stress on it?

Second, the answer is obvious. Given there could be no error message to be provided, such a field should be made optional. It's a no-brainer. Again, why ask then?

Third, there is a history. This user already was a nuisance in the similar suggestion of mine, nitpicking not on the main point but on some irrelevant or minor issues, and flagging it as irrelevant dupe.

But surely I played a fool overreacting to that. Given his trolling is too thin to be bluntly flagged, I should have simply ignored it.

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    To be precise, I looked it up, and the comment was: "What if the question isn't about a error message?" There is nothing to me that seems at all trolling about that comment. It seems to be asked in good faith. Your linked discussion also has way too much (and escalating) back-and-forth - which you contributed to. Don't try to have the last word in the comments. Identify the nit-pick issue, address it in the post and flag the comment for deletion. Respond nicely in your answer, and assume good faith. Never let your emotions allow you to become uncivil.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 17:37
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    Please get over yourself already. We don’t have some kind of childish vendetta. We’re not rivals. We’re just users on this site. I never had any malicious intentions with the comment. I only realized it was your answer after you edited it so colorfully. Stop saying there is something going on between us. There isn’t and there never will be. I genuinely don’t care who posts an answer.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 19:04
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    @AaronHall your analysis seems to lack context. When I saw the discussed answer it had a comment from a user expressing concern about a matter that they apparently didn't bother to address in their own answer (something about denoting a field optional). This didn't look very well per se but when I noticed that it was kinda accompanied by few downvotes it started feeling like just a fake concern posted with sole purpose to justify votes down
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 21:32
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    @gnat: My post never claimed we needed those specific fields. That screenshot is just an example of how you'd split up the form. You claim I never addressed it, but it was never an issue in my answer in the first place.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 19, 2017 at 5:32
  • @Cerbrus I explained how things looked like to me back then
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 19, 2017 at 6:45
  • Ah, fair enough then :-)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 19, 2017 at 6:56
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    This answer continues to add to a picture of brashness and lack of self awareness. When you are told that you are the most flagged user on this site, you should take a step back and think that maybe, just maybe, you are wrong enough to not even see how wrong your behavior is. And as most of this answer is about proving why Cerbrus' comment amounted to trolling, let me say that you failed to prove it and only demonstrated your own further brash behavior.
    – user4843530
    Commented Oct 20, 2017 at 18:58

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