32

There is an example here of people rushing to provide answers when there is a simple typographical error (= instead of ==).

Personally, I am trying to be a good SO-citizen and I vote to close, but then point out the error in a comment - not pointing out the mistake seems a little mean.

Down-voting the answers doesn't have the desired effect. (I didn't do so on this occasion.) I appreciate that down-voting, but providing a comment as to why, is preferred, but it can then lead to disputes.

Shouldn't there be something more substantial happening? Mainly removing up-votes and the accepted-points (I don't think this happens currently?). How else are we going to stem the tide of people scrabbling for points, and adding to the noise?

22
  • It's a typo and (I think) a dupe (of, among others: stackoverflow.com/questions/12814334/if-statement-always-true). Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 20:36
  • 11
    Problem is, it's not always apparent that it is a typo until someone points it out.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 20:39
  • 17
    @RobertHarvey But the point is that when any given person figures out that it's a typo their reaction should be to vote to close the question using the typo reason, but almost nobody actually does. The issue here isn't so much with the person asking, but with how the community responds.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 20:40
  • 4
    I don't see much rep being gained on those answers anyway. As usual, you guys are not looking at the right problem; close and delete the question, and the answers (and any upvotes they have) disappear with it.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 20:41
  • 10
    @RobertHarvey But that's just it. These questions don't get closed, and they don't get deleted. You're describing how the site should work, but because people don't leverage those tools intended to solve these problems, they don't work.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 20:53
  • 1
    And you propose to fix people problems with vote rigging?
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 20:56
  • 4
    "not pointing out the mistake seems a little mean" I don't think it would be mean to not point out the error. If the user did not bother to debug (or even describe the error, which is the case in this question), I see no reason to provide them with an answer to their low quality question. Obviously, this is not the main focus of this question, but I figured I would just point it out.
    – Anonymous
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 21:09
  • 1
    @Anonymous Pointing out their simple mistake might embarrass them, and perhaps they will be reluctant to post trivial questions in future, without first trying to solve it themselves. Although.. I think I am being optimistic.
    – Andy G
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 21:16
  • 2
    @AndyG Yes, maybe a little optimistic, but I guess it could happen. I feel as though if they were to not receive any answer at all and be only left with a closed question that explains how they could improve their question, they would be more inclined to spend time reading the Stack Overflow guidelines and attempting to craft a better question. Of course, I have never seen this happen with all the rep hunters, so I may be a little optimistic as well.
    – Anonymous
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 21:18
  • 3
    Quickly closing is the ideal. My question is more about dissuading, or educating, the rep-hunters from adding answers to non-questions. Close-voting alone cannot keep pace with the deluge of these questions.
    – Andy G
    Commented Jun 10, 2014 at 21:34
  • 1
    @RobertHarvey Either you have no idea how this site works, or you are trying to wrong your opponent deliberately. Voting IS the thing that makes this site moving. At least with current policy. So - yes, vote rigging is the answer, while your ideas on "close and delete" are mere delusions. Either decline that kindergarten "gamification" policy OR go play by it's rules. Don't be a hypocrite. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 5:08
  • 1
    @YourCommonSense: I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. I've been here awhile, probably longer than you have, and I know all too clearly how the site works. There is no opponent here, and nobody is being wronged. Voting is the thing that makes the site go, but taking away people's right to do it freely or stuffing the ballot box is the fastest way I know of to destroy it. Closing and deleting are here to stay, regardless of what you say, and I have two college degrees so the attempt at insult is pointless. Go look up "hypocrite" before you use that word again.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 7:22
  • 3
    Questions that could have been trivially answered with absolute minimal effort and those that have been asked & answered scores of times are upvoted like crazy (this one gathered as much as 3 upvotes). That would indicate (1) how rep-whores behave -- they answer a silly question and upvote it, (2) quality of questions on Stack Overflow, (3) how useless the close-to-vote power is (repwhores have the power but they simply refuse to close FAQs).
    – devnull
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 13:19
  • 2
    @RobertHarvey may be the word choice is wrong, but it doesn't make your suggestion fair. You tell people to use worthless tools which knowingly don't work. Yet you fights fiercely for the every point a repwhore could gain. Quite ambiguous position, to say the least. Thank you for the comments like this Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 21:45
  • 2
    @RobertHarvey that's what you've been told from the beginning: it is not tools that make this site work, but reputation. Therefore, if you want to tweak people's behavior, you have to tweak reputation rules. Make people lose on answering bad questions and you will see the latter closed all right. No matter how many times you say 'halva' - it won't make any sweeter in your mouth. No matter how many times you repeat "people should" - they won't. Only thing that matters can make them move. To think opposite is as silly as to think there are 20k able users. Rep-hungry enthusiasts that's it. Commented Jun 13, 2014 at 4:02

5 Answers 5

13

Maybe the solution is to prevent any and all reputation from the answers to closed questions similar to when they are locked. However, the answers should still be able to be voted on to portray the answer quality appropriately (most likely downvotes). The question should still provide reputation to the poster because it would most likely be downvotes, encouraging them to ask better questions in the future.

If the answers had no votes and no chance of getting votes in the future, rep hunters sure wouldn't waste their time answering a question unless it was a quality question.

Have you ever noticed how rep hunters are not on meta? Maybe there's a reason for that...

Also, if the question is reopened, reputation should function for the answers again including past reputation that would be gained or lost.

9
  • "how rep hunters are not on meta"? Simply, there's no rep gain/loss in discussing here.
    – Vesper
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 5:00
  • 4
    Questions should be deleted before rep is lost. If the question remains on the site despite it being closed, then the community must find it valuable, and therefore the rep should stay.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 7:25
  • 1
    @Robert I don't really see how a closed question would be considered valuable by the community since enough people determined it to be low quality enough to close. A close vote seems to be a way of saying that the poster should learn how to ask a better question. The idea of the question may be valuable, but the question appears to have been determined not to be.
    – Anonymous
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 9:05
  • 3
    @Anonymous I disagree. Some of the best answers on SO are for very bad questions, and removing reputation for these gems will not improve the site. Besides, how am I ever going to get a Reversal badge with this proposed change ;-) Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 10:24
  • 3
    @Anonymous That's not the only rationale behind a close vote, in general. Consider a question which, in its current form, has not been asked, but nevertheless turns out to be an old question in disguise (and experienced users will see this, but people new to the subject do not). Then the question is good, but has been answered elsewhere, so you vote to close based on Duplicate. It's still useful to have the question around, but it's good that it's closed such that we don't get duplicate answers.
    – MicroVirus
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 10:52
  • @Frank Well, something needs to be done about the amass of rep hunters simply encouraging bad questions. I believe you are referring to old questions that have valuable answers. I imagine this change would only apply to newly closed questions if implemented anyway. New questions are the real problem since they convince users that their questions are good, so there is not really a point to applying the change to old ones as well. As for the reversal badge, it's not good to have badge hunters either. That badge may also need to be removed since it encourages answering bad questions.
    – Anonymous
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 13:49
  • @MicroVirus Of course. That's why the asker is still able to gain reputation from the question. If it is inherently a good question, they can receive the reputation from their well-received question. The answers, however, do not add anything new to a duplicate question. If they have something new to add, they can add it to the original question instead.
    – Anonymous
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 13:50
  • @RobertHarvey "If the question remains on the site despite it being closed, then..." ...it may be a time to consider What should the system be deleting automatically that it already isn't? i.sstatic.net/MW9QR.gif
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 21:37
  • @RobertHarvey by this logic, imho the delete vote privilege is way to high. And why we have the close reason for typo? Is there any further value in a typo? Commented Jun 19, 2017 at 14:02
6

In that case, when the question is = instead of ==, it might not be a typo but instead a misunderstanding of key language features, thus it might be valid at least for the asker, and I think answering them in detail, explaining a typo as both possible ways of interpretation should be beneficial for the answerer.

There are questions that have a typo "pre-installed", say this one, and answering such questions can lead the asker to the better, including staying here, asking more and answering.

I think the best way to do with typo questions is voting to close as typo, probably explaining where's the typo, and leaving no answers of your own. Existing answers should be evaluated as normal.

1
  • 1
    No one agrees on precisely what a "typo" is, and some people interpret it very narrowly--literally, an inadvertent slip of the finger, and wikipedia's definition even appears to exclude transpositions of letters in a variable name--but I use it mean any extremely trivial mistake which would not be made if one had even the most rudimentary knowledge of the language.
    – user663031
    Commented Jun 20, 2017 at 13:38
4

The site design encourages this: it has a big box asking for answers, and only a small flag link.

It's not even clear to me as a relatively low rep member whether questions like this should be closed, as the answers serve to explain the difference between = and ==. This can be particularly confusing for people who come to programming already knowing SQL, as that uses = for comparison.

2
  • I'm wondering what percentage of users start off with SQL and only then move on to C or whatever.
    – user663031
    Commented Jun 20, 2017 at 13:39
  • @torazaburo I do know more than one person that have a history in business analysis and moved from SQL to other languages. But you have the same issue when you move from VB.NET or Delphi to C#, which is probably even more common.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Jun 20, 2017 at 13:53
2

Personally if I posted a question and it turned out to be a simple typo I'd be pretty ashamed of my own lacking debugging skills and would be deleting the posted question pretty damn quick once someone pointed out my elementary mistake.

Maybe other people have less shame...

Perhaps we need to somehow encourage programmers to feel more shame!

1
  • 3
    Questioners can't delete their question once it has an upvoted answer.
    – nobody
    Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 20:01
-4

Apparently answering such questions is frowned upon, but like you say, people feel it's necessary to answer them anyway and use (abuse, I think) comments for that.

In my opinion, answers are for answering. That's what the 'Answer' box is for. I think answering a question in a comment because the question is not 'worthy' of a real answer, is silly. If that's how you feel: don't answer at all. If answering the question somehow blocks the system from cleaning up the question: update the system.

A question about a typo is not a bad question per say. If it is bad, I downvote it. Downvote is the punishment for a bad question. Closing is the punishment for asking irrelevant questions. A question about a typo is irrelevant to future visitors, but that doesn't mean OP doesn't deserve help with it. Let OP be helped, and let the community clean up the question afterwards.

And that's what I do. I answer the question if I know the answer and vote to close it as well, because it's just about a typo.

Often those typos are there because OP didn't fully understand the syntax or had trouble interpreting an error message, so often those questions aren't even typos in the view of OP. And even if they are, a little help solves their problem, makes them happy and probably educates them as well.

I assume (or assumed, since I got some contradictory information about the subject), that those questions will be closed and can be deleted too. If that costs me the few feeble points it gained me, fine. I don't care about people who think I'm rep-hunting. An answer like that will likely get no or maybe one upvote, so yay, I got 10 internet points. Besides, I can't be a rep-hunter, since apparently they don't post on Meta. ;)

Those answers do often get accepted though, which tells me that OP had a problem, cared about it, and appreciated the help. And I appreciate OP's appreciation, although I still wouldn't mind if the question would be completely deleted afterwards.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a strict policy that says you cannot answer these questions, and since I feel best answering them, I'll keep doing that for now.

2
  • 1
    Rather than "had trouble interpreting an error message", it is often more accurate to say "willfully refused to look at the error message or make the least effort to understand it".
    – user663031
    Commented Jun 20, 2017 at 13:40
  • @torazaburo That's the spirit. ;-) But seriously, those cases exist as well, and quite often you can tell the difference. If I suspect that somebody is just "willfully" posting a lazy crap question, I won't put effort in it.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Jun 20, 2017 at 13:48

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