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I asked the question: https://stackoverflow.com/q/42813588/1380710.

It was recently closed as off-topic, and I don't exactly understand why. I know how, at a glance, this question just seems like a "what's wrong with my code", i.e. "help me fix it". But my intention with the question isn't to seek help on fixing it. I already know a fix to it, but I don't understand why I need the fix. I suspect it's a bug in async/await but I wanted insight from the SO community.

Is this really off-topic - or am I still just bad at phrasing questions?

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  • Sounds like you didn't read the close message. It explains specifically what the problems are with the question that you need to address. Start by reading that, and if you're still confused, by reading the pages it links to.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 13:52
  • It can use an introductory paragraph to give context for that code blurb
    – rene
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 13:53
  • @Servy I read the close message (and the two links it points to), and it's not the first time I've read that exact close message. I could write down how I understand the message, if it would help you clarify what I'm missing, but it would take a lot more than 500 characters to do so. And I don't intend to create a wall of comments here right away, since it seems long descriptions are one of the primary reasons people stay away.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 14:02
  • 2
    @AskeB. If you do in fact understand the close reason, then you understand what you need to fix with your question, and you just need to go do that. It doesn't really matter whether you're asking to explain the problematic behavior or get a fix for it; the problems described there need to be fixed regardless, and it has nothing to do with that close reason.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 14:04
  • 1
    @Servy I didn't say I understood it. I said that I read it, and know the words that it says. I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you suggesting I know how to fix my question, but have some reason not do it? What reason could that even be?
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 14:12
  • @AskeB. I could write down how I understand the message It sure sounds like you said you understand it. Since you apparently understand the message, you know what your question is lacking, and you know it has nothing to do with whether you want a fix or an explanation of the problem. I don't know why you aren't simply fixing the problems that the close reason mentions, and are instead asking about unrelated concepts.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 14:15
  • @Servy Are we arguing semantics here? English isn't my native language, so give me a break. I wrote that sentence meaning "I could write down how I interpret the message", and thought this was clear. To me it sounds like you're just trying to tease me - and frankly, I don't appreciate it. I ask with sincere intent. Ironically, your complete misunderstanding of my message, might be a good example of how a message isn't crystal clear to everyone, even though the author believes it is.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 15:19
  • @AskeB. You said you understood it, and you could explain it to me if you wanted, but you didn't see any reason to. Since you're apparently so confident in your understanding of the close reason that you don't see any reason to discuss it at all, I can only assume you understand how your question is lacking, and simply haven't yet taken the time to address those problems.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 15:22
  • @Servy I'm getting really frustrated now. It feels like you're deliberatingly assuming I have bad intentions. Let me break it down: 1. I can explain how I interpret the message. In my native language, "interpret" and "understand" are synonyms - maybe this is the confusion here. 2. I am not confident I understand the message. Quite the contrary - I know that I don't understand it. 3. I would be happy to discuss how I interpret the message with you (or anyone). But I thought it would be a too long to put here. But since we've already gone so far into nowhere, I'll do that when I get home.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 15:27
  • @AskeB. So you know that you don't understand it, and yet you've decided that you don't want to discuss it because you think it would be too long to talk about it. So...why ask about your question if you don't want to talk about it?
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 15:30
  • @Servy yet you've decided that you don't want to discuss it because you think it would be too long to talk about it -> I would be happy to discuss how I interpret the message with you (or anyone) I don't understand how you can misinterpret this. I'll be home in about 15 minutes, talk to you then.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 15:31
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 16:13
  • Eliminating this kind of forum Q+A was the very reason why SO was created 9 years ago. If you can't see it from the question then just look at the answer you got. Utterly useless. Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 10:01

2 Answers 2

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I voted to close that question due to lack of MCVE and I strongly believe it is valid reason for this question.

I understand that it is frequently hard to create reasonable MCVE, but without it it is not possible to suggest anything. I.e. code in the post have no logging whatsoever, but body of the post essentially all about comparing log entries. How someone but you would know why log entries are the way they are?

Also "What is going on here?" question in the post is very different from something like "how would I go about debugging this" which you claim your intention was.

Make sure to actually ask question you are interested in. Asking something that you feel would fit better to SO (for whatever reason) is very counterproductive - you will not get answers you are interested in and you would not be able to provide reasonable comments because you asked question not related to problem you see.

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  • Thanks. I was hoping someone would have encountered that exact same bug, but when re-reading the MCVE section, in parallel with your answer, I realize that it may not be sufficient for a good SO question. I probably won't have the opportunity to create an actual MCVE for this issue, so sadly I probably have to let it slip. However, I don't understand what you mean by "code in the post have no logging whatsoever" - I posted comments in the code to illustrate where I was logging. Would it have been more readable if I had shown the FileLogger.QueueLog("...") lines instead?
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 21:04
  • My concern with adding too much code was exactly that of readability. And I assumed a comment would be sufficient. Especially to illustrate that a line of code was added later. And I actually was very interested in the result - so is my co-worker who also worked on debugging this very odd phenomenon. I'm not sure why it comes across as if my sole reason is to fit it to SO. Should I have written "how would I go about debugging this?" instead? As you may be able to tell, I am really confused between what I think is what I want out of the question, and what other SO'ers think I want
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 16, 2017 at 21:11
  • On logging code - yes, indeed it would be better if you show code - and preferably one that does not need knowledge of private code (like Console.WriteLine ). Maybe your logging is wrong for example - there is no way for other people to know what you tried and what code is correct if they can't see it. Don't forget that creating real MCVE is solid debugging approach - in most cases you actually find bug(s) yourself if you honestly try to create one. And it is relatively cheap debugging technique compared to trying random things... Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 5:32
  • @AskeB. On question: I believe you'd get much more useful feedback if you asked "I tried ....., what else can I try?" Despite the fact this is way too broad (and it is generally problem you face with such question) you could have received some comments and possibly answer on debugging... But on other hand "create MCVE" is the most obvious debugging advice - so really it is better to get one anyway. Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 5:36
  • I agree that an MVCE is a solid debugging approach. And it was also what we tried, but were unsuccessful after about 8 hours of it. In principle I agree that it's a lot easier to help someone if all the trivial information is away, but in this case, there were so many things to cover, just to prove what we already knew. For example, the logging is not just Console.WriteLine - it's a custom thread-safe file-logging application. And I could also have included the output of all the 27 emails I got, and the exact timestamps to prove that they were in fact written from there. And so on.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 7:13
  • In the past, I've tried including extensive information, and found that nobody wants to respond to the question. It usually ends up with 0 votes, 0 answers, and 0-2 comments. Perhaps I have been mistaken about the reason for that though. But I have had a lot more luck with getting responses with questions that doesn't require a lot of code, or a lot of explaining. Thanks again, for your responses.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 7:19
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Yes and no. From what I gather from Servy, it doesn't matter whether you want others to make a solution for you, while you sit back and do nothing, or just want to understand why the code behaves unexpectedly. What matters is how you describe the problem. In my case, I gather that the main issue is that I don't have a code snippet that can reproduce the problem.

As Alexei Levenkov pointed out, this can be hard - and in this case, we strongly suspect it's some kind of bug with .NET or a quirk with atomic operations and threads. Either way, the primary road to an answer of that question would be if someone else had encountered the exact same bug, and was able to spot it just from the provided code. Unlikely, but we thought it was worth the shot.

I've now realized that it might be more optimal for SO, if we had been able to reproduce the behavior with an independent code snippet, and provided the specific .NET versions, OS versions and whatever else caused the issue. That way, a lot more people would have a chance at figuring it out, and understanding the nature of the problem.

Instead, I got a lot of comments asking me trivial things that wasn't related to the bug. And I think that wastes everyone's time. I will keep this in mind for the future. Next time I will not ask a question unless we have an independent code snippet that can be reproduced simple by copy-paste into a new project, on a machine with the exact info we provide.

In spite of all the downvotes, I've gotten some decent feedback, so I think I'll leave this open, so I can find again some other time.

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  • Just to be sure, did you know voting on meta is different (and does not impact you)? Downvotes are generally nothing negative, they're just statistics that indicate something like "don't agree", "don't want" or "the premise of this is wrong" depending on the type of question asked or if it is a feature request. Its absolutely not a definitive indicator of unwanted content, quite the contrary.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 8:32
  • @Gimby Actually, I just realized yesterday that the old SO meta is now Meta Stack Exchange and that this is a different thing. I was also confused as to why I had 2k reputation on here. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
    – Aske B.
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:57

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