38

I've had to add a dummy code block to this answer because the answer links to online "compiler" ideone.com.

The thing is, the code under the link has nothing at all to do with the answer: the link serves to prove a fact about the site itself.

Thus, my answer necessarily has irrelevant noise added to the bottom.

What is this restriction there to solve? Can't it be removed, or reputation-limited, or something? I hate to be a naysayer (okay, not really) but this nannying is incredibly irritating and, sadly, on the rise here.

enter image description here

7
  • 31
    That restriction should probably just be lifted if you link to the main site (as you did) instead of to a specific code example. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 12:47
  • It should let you get away with an empty <code></code> block. Since there's no <pre>, it won't take up the whole line it's on. You'll still get a single grey block, but it's at least the least-obtrusive option until they change this. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 12:51
  • For the record, I recognise that this scenario is an edge case. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:35
  • 10
    That should be how it works already, @Bill - however, it looks like he has a second link that doesn't just go to the home page.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 0:10
  • 2
    That's right - I've confused people by having a basic link in there too, but the link to an actual snippet is the problem here. Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 10:10
  • 1
    @Shog9 Your ping hit the wrong person, BTW. Confused me for a minute until I noticed who'd commented ahead of me. Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 11:25
  • @BillyMailman: Alright then! Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 12:19

5 Answers 5

25

It might be easier to remove the restriction unless the link specifies an additional path.

So http://ideone.com/ would be OK, but http://ideone.com/anything is blocked.

Should be easy enough to do.

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    Please see my code at: ideone.com /anything
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:26
  • 7
    @GEOCHET: This can already be used, however notice that this requires extra effort by the user as clicking on the link no longer works. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:28
  • You would have to see that error, and then know how the filtering works and then deliberately subvert it; probably a lot of effort for someone who CBA posting code in the first place :)
    – DaveShaw
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:28
  • 1
    Leading to worse quality. Not better quality.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:28
  • 5
    Right but the link to ideone.com/something was also problematic here. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:33
  • @DaveShaw What's CBA? Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 21:50
  • Shorthand for a slang version of "Can't be bothered".
    – DaveShaw
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 21:55
  • 8
    This is already how it works.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 0:11
  • @Shog9: I love how this answer is already how the site works, and doesn't at all answer the question, but is still highest voted. LOL.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 15:37
5

Agreed. The pursuit of having the site cater to the lowest common denominator needs to be tempered by removing some of that nannying for people who have the necessary reputation. In this case, do we not trust someone with (at this time) 166k+ reputation to post a quality answer?

Make this a 'feature' that turns off at a reasonable reputation.

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    Disagree: don't disable it depending on rep, change it to not generate false positives as it did here. If a user with >100k rep posts an answer that only links to an ideone snippet, that's still a crappy answer. I don't understand the whole "we can trust people with >X rep not to post bad answers" mentality - there are way too many 10k+ users who post crap all day long (which is how they got to 10k - post a ton of crappy answers to crappy questions and gain rep by sheer volume).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:18
  • 4
    It could also play havoc with editing. High rep user posts, low rep user tries to edit, low rep user can't save edit until they add code, despite link being part of the high rep user's OP.
    – DanielST
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:25
  • 1
    Then reputation means nothing at all. Why trust them with the privileges on the site that we trust them with at all?
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:25
  • @GEOCHET Devils Advocate, but would you recommend disabling the spam filter for users over a given rep threshold?
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:29
  • 1
    Yes, of course. Why would someone sacrifice a 10k+ reputation account to be deleted as a spammer?
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:32
  • 1
    @l4mip: Spam is malicious. Failing to "bring the content here" and instead lazily linking to an ideone.com post (presumably the use case in mind with this filter) is not. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:34
  • 1
    @l4mpi: Are you saying, then, that my answer is "crappy"? Because if so then I disagree. And I explained why in this question!" Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:35
  • 1
    @l4mpi: think of it as compiler warning vs compiler error. The post triggers a warning, but doesn't contain an unrecoverable error. Also, eliminating every last false positive is impossible. I think we want to, and can, trust some users to be sensible in ignoring certain compiler warnings. Of course we should improve the heuristics, but fixing bugs and trusting users are not mutually exclusive. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:12
  • 1
    Well, we certainly cannot just go around trusting someone with 166k rep!
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:14
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm saying your answer is a false positive of a filter intended to prevent crappy answers. That false positive should be eliminated; but that seems to be too weak of an argument to eliminate the filter entirely.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 15:00
  • 1
    "that seems to be too weak of an argument to eliminate the filter entirely" -- Who is asking for that?
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 15:08
  • 1
    Who said that 10k would be the mark?
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 15:21
  • 1
    @GEO Looks like l4mpi is simply rejecting his own proposals ;) Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 15:25
  • 1
    Agreed @LightnessRacesinOrbit, I feel like I am a third party watching someone debate themselves.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 15:27
  • 1
    @l4mpi Teehee :) Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 15:59
5

Can't it be removed, or reputation-limited, or something?

Basically… no.

This is an edge case, really. The filter is clearly intended to prevent users from simply linking to an example off-site, rather than "bringing the content here". Such links are nice addenda but cannot be the only way to provide a code solution.

In this instance I wasn't providing a code solution at all, only demonstrating as a marginally interesting sidenote that I can prove ideone.com's "C++ 5.1" option is in fact C++98.

An easy workaround would have been to inject this proof into the answer, making the interesting sidenote marginally longer.

For such an edge case, this is probably much better than introducing a reputation limit for the filter (or anything else).

-3

Just replace the link with an equivalent one that isn't filtered. For example, any link-shortening service, like Google's.

See your answer now, after my edit. The link works, no <code/> section required.

At least, this will work until abusers start using the technique to post links that are of the type meant to be filtered out, and Stack Overflow starts following redirect links to their terminus to determine whether to filter them or not. :)

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    Please leave all link-obfuscators outside. Thank you. Commented Aug 8, 2015 at 16:19
  • @Deduplicator: because, why? IMHO, this is the lesser of two evils. Stack Overflow has a heavy-handed policy to block posts with URLs that take this specific form. Obfuscating the URL bypasses the inappropriate block in a harmless way, and without adding noise to the post (as e.g. an empty <code/> section does). Obfuscation can be used for bad purposes, but that doesn't mean all obfuscation is bad. Commented Aug 8, 2015 at 22:12
  • Read meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/257936/… and all the others. URL-shorteners (or obfuscators) are a plague. Commented Aug 8, 2015 at 22:21
  • @Deduplicator: Uh, huh? That post (and answers), while it does mention some of the harm (I've already acknowledged) can be done with obfuscated URLs, doesn't answer my question. And simply using the word "plague" to describe them also does not answer my question. Seems to me, if Stack Overflow so badly wants to avoid obfuscated URLs, it shouldn't refuse to allow un-obfuscated URLs that have a legitimate purpose. Commented Aug 8, 2015 at 23:13
  • If you roll that way, then any automatic filter for anything is ipso facto bad. Commented Aug 8, 2015 at 23:15
  • @Deduplicator: that is not a logical conclusion. That a specific type of broad automatic filter has demonstrable harm does not automatically mean that all types of any filter is bad. There is a broad middle-ground available, in which certain kinds of filters are still useful, without unnecessarily preventing legitimate content. Users have lots of other ways to link to off-site code, so frankly, the positive benefit of this filter is questionable, and it has clear negative consequences. And in any case, none of that answers why obfuscated URLs should be prohibited. Commented Aug 8, 2015 at 23:22
  • Please provide an example for filters which do not ever under any circumstances have false-positives, and which are still useful. Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 0:05
-5

I agree with @l4mpi that reputation limiting only goes so far:

  • Stack Overflow can be gamed, and therefore reaching a reasonable reputation level (say 3k) can be done by sheer volume and a couple of rules of thumb (fastest gun in the west helps) in a reasonable amount of time
  • Many "old" users (such as myself) have gained their reputation from aging answers and therefore may not be up-to-date on the recommendations
  • Humans are failing regularly

There is also another (opposing) issue: the more restricted the privilege, the less usable it is, obviously.

As a result, there is a tension between:

  • setting a sufficiently high reputation threshold for it to be meaningful
  • setting a sufficiently low reputation threshold so that the ability to ask and answer is widespread enough

Given that the Stack Overflow system already tends to favor high-reputation users (they must be right, so they get upvotes), it seems that giving them more options to answer might further place barriers in front of newcomers.


On the other hand, I find that preventing an answer from being posted is too strong.

Why not simply advise the user? (changing must into should, and not blocking)

Potentially, too, maybe feed the answer into a review queue in case the warning is not heeded (so that humans check whether it really is an exception to the rule).

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    This implies that all reputation means nothing and that our entire reputation privilege system cannot work. Which is obviously false.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:27
  • 9
    Advice gets ignored... by everyone.
    – Matt Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:27
  • @GEOCHET: I have tried to explain more in-depth. I find that the reputation system is not a good fit in this case; the privileges gained are generally oriented toward moderation and NOT the ability to ask/answer. We need few moderators (though could do with a couple more probably), so setting restrictive thresholds that are hard to game works. However, giving high-reputation users the ability to formulate questions/answers than low-reputation users are not allowed to seems "unfair". Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:42
  • 1
    @Matt: Maybe posts that ignore advice should be to the VLQ queue so that humans can examine whether they warrant an exception or not? Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:45
  • 1
    That really makes less sense than your original premise. Yikes.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:45
  • @GEOCHET: I remember the forum days where a new user would not be allowed to post a link (to prevent spam), it led to a very frustrating user experience for everyone: the new users had to obfuscate their link and the other users had to reconstruct them. I am afraid that putting SO on this slope is only going to aggravate new users even more. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:49
  • SO is already there. This question asks to relieve that problem for trusted people.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:54
  • I disagree, I see my own reputation level being reasonable (1.6K), but if this became a feature that unlocked at 3K, I'd be pulling my hair out.
    – AStopher
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:56
  • If what became a feature?
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:11
  • @GEOCHET: Not quite; this questions raises the issue that this limit is not always warranted, and ask what to do with it: Can't it be removed, or reputation-limited, or something?. This answer in the "or something" category, and propose to lower the restriction to an advice (though as Matt pointed out, just an advice might not work). Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:11
  • Advice won't work, and it is also silly. You trust a user to edit people's questions, flag them, close them, delete them, but you don't trust them to post a link in them? Forest for the trees...
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:13
  • @GEOCHET: Don't advices also appear during edits? Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:22
  • Not on basic, elementary concepts of the site and how to use it....
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:28

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