Timeline for Are we being "elitist"? Is there something wrong with that?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
18 events
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Jul 6, 2014 at 10:43 | comment | added | BoltClock Mod | @Amicable: That explains why virtually every one of us sucks at dealing with assholes - we don't have any experience with this thing you call life ;) | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 21:44 | history | edited | Peter Mortensen | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Used the official name of Stack Overflow - see section "Proper Use of the Stack Exchange Name" in http://stackoverflow.com/legal/trademark-guidance (the last section).
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Jul 4, 2014 at 13:19 | comment | added | Amicable | A lot of this seems to boil down to how to deal with rude people and those assholes that we inevitably cross paths with, which is basically a lesson learned through life. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:25 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | FYI I deleted that previous comment to rewrite it but you answered before I could. I think you've extracted the interesting parts of what I said :-) | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:22 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | @BrunoReis: "Easy for the heavy users, but those same heavy users (most of them, probably) already know what is the expected behavior" -- right, to some extent the question "what is rudeness" is the same as the question "what expected behaviour do the heavy users converge on, and the mods slap wrists when it's violated". Some people say we're too mean to newbies, other people say we should be mean to them in some ways but not others. It's a negotiation over the position of the line, not a matter of trying to objectively define "rude" or "mean". "Inappropriate" means I don't think it works. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:20 | comment | added | Bruno Reis | "making yourself feel big and the questioner feel small, isn't an appropriate line of instruction to take with a stranger you only see once" --> I've seen cultures in which this is the exact most appropriate line of action, this is what is culturally expected! Anyway, an "SO culture" is a good thing, I believe, but, again, very hard to establish in general. Easy for the heavy users, but those same heavy users (most of them, probably) already know what is the expected behavior. The issue still persists with new / relatively new users. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:03 | comment | added | Bruno Reis | (even if they are just plain wrong) | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:00 | comment | added | Bruno Reis | The other important thing here is: "what is rudeness?". It's tightly coupled with culture, and this is a global website. Impossible to accommodate every culture. Someone will always have their feelings hurt, no matter what. People should just stop whining when they get their share of knowledge from experts for free. If you want an example of an extremely different culture in this regard, go to pt.stackoverflow.com -- you'll see extremely long answers (with useless, courteous preambles and conclusions that add nothing) and you'll rarely, if ever, see people telling that others are wrong. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:56 | comment | added | kapa | @SteveJessop I haven't said that. SO needs to require a certain level of civility/politeness, otherwise it would never work. People are not clever enough and are too selfish to realize that they are here for knowledge. Even if they are given the highest and most secret knowledge for free, they would turn away if it is accompanied by rude words. Experts who are good teachers know this and use niceness/rudeness consciously. Selfish experts sometimes become assholes on the other hand. Still, they have the knowledge that a clever learner will seek to learn from them anyways. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:46 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | @kapa: yeah, so the question is whether SO wants to support a system where to extract that knowledge from the rude people, you need to pay the price of being made to feel bad (which perhaps some people can control/ignore to a greater or less extent, but for almost anyone some abusive comment will eventually strike home). Basically, do we need the experts who need to be paid for their knowledge by being allowed to be rude, or should we shut that down and let the ones willing to be civil handle the newbies? I say we have enough questioners and enough experts to be picky about both groups :-) | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:30 | comment | added | kapa | @SteveJessop It matters ONLY because people take it personally. But from a logical point of view, if I go somewhere to learn things from a person he is a great expert at, so my goal is to gain knowledge that is not easy to find, will I care whether he is rude to me or not? Of course not. I'm not saying experts should be rude!! They will decide whether they think it helps or not. Even if they cannot make that decision responsibly, they still have the knowledge that I need. I don't need their nice words, it's no real value. I need their knowledge. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:20 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | @kapa: can you imagine the tongue-in-cheek response I want to make to your comment? Not because it's deserved, but because it would illustrate that being nice or rude or whatever does matter, and some levels of rudeness will rightly be deleted by mods because they obstruct a productive atmosphere. Unfortunately, by getting flagged and deleted, my hypothetical response would cease making that point to future readers ;-) If it made no difference to the reader whether people were nice or rude, commenters wouldn't ever go out of their way to be rude or snarky. But they do, so it matters. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 9:07 | comment | added | Amicable | Rubber duck debugging is great, explaining the problem it words that someone other than you could understand often helps break down the problem in your head. Many times I've typed out questions for StackOverflow this discarded them as I realise the issue wasn't as baffling as I'd first thought. | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 8:58 | comment | added | Ian Clark | +1, really interesting link to the rubber duck story too (thanks Jeff) | |
Jul 4, 2014 at 8:45 | comment | added | kapa | @Anthony If they possess the knowledge I seek, then I want to learn from them. Why does it matter whether they are nice or rude or whatever? This is a huge misunderstanding... | |
Jul 3, 2014 at 14:57 | comment | added | Seth | @Anthony This is, after all, the internet. | |
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:55 | comment | added | Anthony | I joined stackoverflow 5 years ago when I was a student, and I've asked 161 questions, and I have definitely seen people act like stuck up assholes. I agree that sometimes someone's feelings can be hurt because they asked a lazy question and it got bad feedback, but some users, like in any community, can't pass up an opportunity to be rude, snide, or snarky. Sometimes a user can downvote with a good reason and still affect an elitist attitude that shames the person and make them feel unwelcome. We don't have to be nice, but we can have manners. | |
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:24 | history | answered | Amicable | CC BY-SA 3.0 |