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I know there are a lot of questions asking the same thing and I know the proper way to close such question is to follow this: How can I close a question that has an active bounty?

You flag it for moderator attention with the 'in need of moderator intervention' flag. Something along the lines of:


But considering the actual situation (we all know about them...) the flag will not help at all and will stay pending until the bounty ends and is awarded.

Here is a recent question that I flagged: Design a single-parent layout and dynamic number of divs which dynamically shrink/grow based on events where nothing was done.

When I tried to bring it to Meta (https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/398708/8620333), the question was deleted and I was told:

This type of escalation is not a good idea. You've already raised a moderator flag. A moderator will handle it when they see it. As others have pointed out, there's nothing that Meta can do to help. It is not a good precedent to set that any moderator flag not handled in what you think is a reasonable amount of time should be brought to Meta. – Cody Gray ♦ Jun 25 at 1:56

I have nothing against this and I understand but it's not a good solution for me.

Here is another off-topic question with a bounty: https://stackoverflow.com/q/4729014/8620333 and I didn't even think about raising a flag because it will be useless.


Why not allow bountied questions to be closed like common questions instead of bothering moderators with custom flags?

Someone may argue that my flag is still waiting and when a moderator reviews it, the question can be closed, deleted, and the bounty retracted, but this will not solve the core problem because the harm was already done. The OP will not care if their question is deleted later, since they already got what they need. Even better if they also get the bounty back!

An off-topic question should be closed as soon as possible, otherwise anyone will ask such questions and get the needed answer before closure, and this is a real issue. As I said in my previous Meta question:

It should be closed and the bounty should be removed otherwise we will send a strong signal that such questions are welcome and we can also feature them.

After that, we cannot blame new users to ask such questions if they found them featured on the site.

Allowing bountied questions to be closed will avoid us having to deal with such situations.


P.S.: Before closing this as a duplicate of a 3-year-old question, we should consider the actual situation where moderators aren't as active as before in handling custom flags, so such a solution can help a little.

P.P.S.: I am not blaming moderators, but I am trying to bring ideas for solutions to help in this particular situation that will probably last for some time.

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  • 100
    I think I agree with this proposal. Since bounties are always refunded, no matter what we do, there is very little material harm that can be done by allowing bountied questions to be closed. Maybe make it require 5 users to close a bountied question, instead of the usual 3. But I agree that in most cases, there's no need to involve a moderator here. (A mod flag is only needed if you suspect foul play regarding the bounty itself.)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 20:49
  • 35
    This so much. Even more frustrating: seeing your close vote waiting for the final one under such a question, which will expire before the bounty... I even saw people insulting me because they paid with their bounty the right to post off-topic/duplicate questions... (Ps: I also agree that raising the number of votes to 5 is a reasonable measure in this case).
    – Kaiido
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 2:08
  • 11
    Echoing Cody's comment, I guess the worst thing that could happen if some group of users who have enough reputation for close voting would close vote a valid bounty on an on-topic question after 7 days to prevent the bounty from being wasted, and I believe that warrants a mod flag...
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 8:54
  • 7
    I do see potential angles of abuse, such as purposefully featuring a question to draw enough attention to it to get it closed, or closing a question to refund the bounty. An easy abuse mitigation would be to avoid dupehammers, because else if I had bountied a question on a tag I could hammer, I could dupehammer it on my own, get my refund, and reopen it, after I got a satisfying answer. Someone would likely pick this up and get me suspended, though, but having a single non-mod responsible for refunding a bounty is probably not a good idea.
    – Erik A
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 14:09
  • 9
    @ErikA - SImple enough solution to that problem. Have a simple check that prevents the author from voting to close their own question if they opened a bounty., Commented Jul 4, 2020 at 0:15
  • 7
    @SecurityHound even simpler solution that will cover all (supposedly infrequent) cases of potential abuse is probably the system raising automatic mod flag whenever bountied question is closed. This way moderators would be able to review all (again, supposedly infrequent) cases of such closures and catch if there is something / anything fishy
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 7:34
  • 15
    I agree with this, though I think that the bounty should not be refunded if closed by users. Seems harsh maybe, but it prevents any "gaming the system" shenanigans.
    – Vaccano
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 19:19
  • 8
    Agree with @Vaccano. Someone with enough rep to put bounties on questions also has enough rep to know what's off-topic here, which means they're intentionally bountying a question they know is bad. Losing that rep would be a valuable deterrent to such bad behaviour.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 20:18
  • 2
    Is there anything to be said for just removing bounties from the site completely? Self-bounties are pretty "overpowered" since the rep-recalculation. And the general quality of bountied questions honestly isn't that great - it isn't universal but there's often a reason that nobody answered it originally.
    – DavidW
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 21:16
  • 3
    ... In those cases, what harm is there in providing the author of the question "what they need"? More generally, shouldn't we always be striving to provide users with "what they need", even when they themselves aren't necessarily posting the best-quality question? How does it harm us to help someone else? I would understand your proposal here better if you could explain what you meant by that statement, since it seems to me that it conflicts with the overriding philosophy of being helpful. Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 18:52
  • 4
    @PeterDuniho the same logic apply to SO. We have rules and we don't accept any kind of questions here but if we don't apply those rules as soon as possible, anyone will ask do this homework for me and he will get his homework done and later his question will be deleted. This is the wrost thing we can have here. The platform will be a temporary place to resolve issue and ask off topic questions that we delete later ... where is the good content we need to consider and the high quality questions answers? we will only have garbage because we aren't doing moderation early Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 20:10
  • 10
    @PeterDuniho SO isn't a place to help people, we aren't a helpdesk. We have strict rules to accept high quality questions and very specific questions. If we don't apply such rules then SO will be a simple Forum or a chat where anyone can ask what he want freely and he will do it because he know that at the end he will get the answer. After that, he doesn't matter what will happen to his question since he got what he wanted. Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 20:14
  • 4
    Why this is featured? Is it really an issue worth to prioritize or anything? I didn't know that bounties can't be closed, nor I care tbh. I don't know why bounties are special, why they can't be closed, but even then just wait until bounty is expired and cast your close vote. There are hundereds of questions what are not properly closed/stays without answers, etc. If they get bounty and can't be close - I don't really care. And I also believe there are dozens of worth to feature issues and not this one.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Jul 13, 2020 at 9:05
  • 3
    @Sinatr the issue is that if we start having clearly off topic question featured with a bounty then we are killing SO for real. As I explained in my question and many comments, closing the question after the bounty won't solve the core issue. Anyone can come to the site, feature his homework question, get his answer within 7 days (no one can close his question) and then he's happy because he got his answer. Go close his question now, he no more care. We need to apply the rule as soon as possible so if we see a bountied question we should be able to close it and not wait until the bounty end. Commented Jul 13, 2020 at 9:10
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    That's correct, @TylerH. There is absolutely no way for a mod to cancel a bounty without refunding it. I've looked, I've pressed every button I could find, and I've even asked for confirmation. Nothing.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 15, 2020 at 7:43

8 Answers 8

64

It should be now possible to close/vote to close bountied questions. We followed the proposal to make the bounties an orthogonal feature. A bountied question can be closed & reopened. The bounty will stay open until its scheduled end or until closed.

While the bounties are mostly orthogonal to flags, there are still some pre-existing limiting rules in place, i.e. it's not possible to start bounties on closed questions.

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    Thank you! One of the best changes Stack Overflow has seen implemented in a decade. Any chance you will consider Luuklag's suggestion as well (don't allow posting of bounties on questions with pending close votes)?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 26 at 15:41
  • 4
    Does that mean that the bounty will only be awarded, if the question was open, when it was scheduled to end? And I assume there is still no rep refunds?
    – gre_gor
    Commented Jun 26 at 16:24
  • 1
    @gre_gor I would assume an active bounty would still be awarded when it is expired even if the question is closed; that's what 'under the normal rules' means on Matthieu's proposal; the normal rules don't take into account whether the question is closed (because previously a bountied question couldn't be closed).
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 26 at 19:48
  • 1
    @TylerH The post says "The bounty will stay open until its scheduled end or until closed.". Does "closed" here refer to the question or the bounty?
    – gre_gor
    Commented Jun 26 at 19:57
  • 2
    @gre_gor Oh, I see... that's a good question then; bounties aren't 'closed' so it must refer to the question, which I guess means a question's bounty must end prematurely whenever that question is closed.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 26 at 19:59
  • 1
    @TylerH I don't think so. More likely wrong wording being used and it means the bounty will stay in place until awarded by the one who started it, or refunded by a moderator as used to be the case until today when the question had to be closed. Anyway, this answer is confusing. Commented Jun 26 at 21:03
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  • 1
    Was this change network wide? If so, was it announced on MSE? The problem with the "orthogonal" choice is that bounties aren't "refunded" unless a mod does it by cancelling the bounty. Closing a bountied question is fine but if the question stays closed and never reopened, why would the person ponying up the rep not get it back?
    – Catija
    Commented Oct 11 at 14:56
  • @Catija Slate had left this answer communicating it to MSE. But if we wanted to build on it to include refunding the rep after a certain period of time we would probably need a feature request for it. This work was originally done as a part of the June 2024 community asks sprint, so we could potentially revisit it as a part of a future community asks sprint.
    – SpencerG StaffMod
    Commented Oct 21 at 17:29
  • If they're orthogonal, then why can't I start a bounty on a closed question? Commented Nov 25 at 1:01
  • 1
    @KellyBundy Is that sth that we should allow? It's not a problem to change that behavior, but I don't think we have a consensus in the community that we should allow that.
    – marrados StaffMod
    Commented Nov 25 at 11:48
  • Well, the "Bounties should be orthogonal" answer got very much upvoted, and as far as I know, "orthogonality means that operations change just one thing without affecting others", so closing shouldn't affect whether I can start bounties. (And there's a closed question I might want to place a bounty on, so it's not just theoretical for me.) Commented Nov 25 at 12:24
  • Fair point! In this case I believe it's just an issue of documentation - would you care to improve my answer?
    – marrados StaffMod
    Commented Nov 25 at 12:30
  • I don't really feel qualified to do that, not sure what it should say. Commented Nov 25 at 13:47
77

Bounties should be orthogonal

I think that either immediately refunding or immediately awarding the bounty when a question is closed is too easily -- and too temptingly -- gameable:

  • Refund: offer bounty, get answers, ask friends to vote-to-close (or self-close), profit. (Doesn't matter if the question gets re-opened, you got the bounty back)
  • Award: wait for bounties, answer quickly, ask friends to vote-to-close, get the bounty! (Doesn't matter if the question gets re-opened, you got the bounty)

On the other hand, if the bounty is handled as a completely orthogonal feature, then all problems vanish:

  • Bountied questions can be closed, re-opened, re-closed at leisure.
  • Bountied questions can be answered as usual -- ie, when open.
  • When the bounty expires or is removed, it is awarded or refunded as per the normal rules.

The time-based nature of the bounty is what makes it hard to game -- any action that is undertaken in bad faith can be countered -- and therefore should be preserved.

It is naturally preserved by making the bounty orthogonal to the state (open/close) of the question.

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    But your 2nd bullet is just as easy to gamify if you make them orthogonal. I answer, then close. Unless someone reopens it, no one else will be able to answer during the bounty so might be an easy win unless someone notices the answer and close votes from the same person Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 16:59
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    @psubsee2003: If the question stays featured, even closed, and it is legitimate, chances are that it will be re-opened. Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 17:23
  • 6
    I agree that they should be orthogonal, but I don't think that "gameability" is relevant here. If you have "friends" to vote on your call, that's something that should be dealt with separately by a moderator.
    – Bergi
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 19:03
  • 2
    What about only getting half of the bounty (back or awarded) if the question got closed? Wouldn't that greatly reduce an incentive to cheat? Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 21:14
  • 1
    @Bergi I can foresee a day when someone will ask on Meta if "cheating with friends" could be dealt with by regular users.
    – Cœur
    Commented Jul 13, 2020 at 4:56
  • Originally I was thinking just cancel the bounty if a bountied question was closed and not reopened within 24 hours, but that would be too susceptible to abuse for people looking to rob users of reputation wholesale. This I think is the best solution (though I'd like to see Luuklag's suggestion incorporated as well).
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 14, 2020 at 17:29
  • "ask friends to vote-to-close" - do you really have so little faith in the basic honesty of users here? Is there evidence that people would act destructively just for this small personal benefit, or even to benefit a friend? Commented Jul 16, 2020 at 4:05
  • 1
    @SteveBennett: I would say it's a "mass" issues. I expect most users to be honest, but when you have millions of users even 0.01% being dishonest is still 100s. And if those users are dishonest to grab a couple upvotes, bounties are bound to attract them: they are juicy. It seems better to design a system that's harder to game from the onset. Commented Jul 16, 2020 at 9:33
  • 3
    Closed bounties should not be awarded. The question shouldn't have been answered. The only way to win the award is if it's all been done right. Reward positive behavior. Commented Sep 18, 2020 at 3:07
  • 2
    I also think if a user is answering bountied questions and then voting to close, that's a sign of abuse and should be mod flagged for moderators to intervene: either deleting the answer, reopening the question, suspending the user, or some combination of all three.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 26 at 15:40
  • "or refunded" Aren't bounties non-refundable? (except for mod actions)
    – gre_gor
    Commented Jun 26 at 16:24
  • @gre_gor: Closing a question with an active bounty has long required a mod action. Much of the discussion assumes that such a connection remains.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jul 10 at 20:46
55

Let me throw the unpopular opinion in here. If an off-topic question has a bounty, people aren't moderating (well) enough. You can't set a bounty as soon as you post a question, so there is time to close it before it becomes eligible for a bounty.

What would be a helpful addition in this case would be that questions with at least one pending close vote are not eligible for a bounty until the close vote expired.

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    there is also a lot of tricks to bypass the closure like using unpopular tags and later add the relevant one or ask the question when there is not a lot of activities, etc .. question reach the bounty even without any pending close vote Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 14:30
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    @TemaniAfif that is gaming the system, and would always require moderator involvement. As these posters would need a warning, or possibly a suspension for such behaviour.
    – Luuklag
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 14:31
  • 7
    I guess it'd be hard to prove or quite long to investigate however, wouldn't it? Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 15:02
  • 5
    @Luuklag - A question's tag doesn't have to be changed to have a bounty opened on it. The act of the bounty being offered will present it on the front page regardless of which tags the question has. The community also can't catch every question that is out of scope before a bounty can be offered. Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 15:21
  • 1
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier well changing tags on a question is public record, so not that hard. If it was the first time someone did that a mod could issue a warning and revoke the bounty. If it happens more often, by the same user, bans would be in order.
    – Luuklag
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 15:36
  • 13
    I don't know, I think "questions don't get closed quickly enough" is a pretty popular opinion on Meta.
    – BSMP
    Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 18:15
  • Honestly, the easiest way to bypass this is to post the question, delete it, and un-delete it 2 days later. Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 16:53
  • @TemaniAfif Tricks to bypass closure should be fixed. E.g. if a question has a bounty, only the OP can change the tags. If the OP does change the tags, then the bounty is immediately removed/forfeited. As for changing tags before adding the bounty, or the delete/undelete trick, the 2 day wait period should be starting from the last tag edit or undelete. Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 19:09
  • 3
    @user3386109 this won't be a good idea simply because you may use wrong tags (which happen all the time) so you can edit to correct (or someone else do it for you). You can also omit some relevant tag and decide to add them later to make your question more visible. A lot of cases where editing tags is a legit action so it's difficult to moderate. Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 22:58
  • 2
    @TemaniAfif Yes, but all of the tag editing should occur fairly soon after the question is posted, and nowhere near the two day wait period before offering a bounty. And the only downside to a legit tag edit is that it delays the bounty offer up to two more days. Making the question more visible with better tags may even be enough to get the question answered, avoiding the need for a bounty. Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 23:02
  • Maybe stop focusing on being newbie friendly and put more requirements on asking a question using a specific tag. Many questions are ignored by veterans, because they lack basic research and communication skills and you know the answer you provide is never going to be satisfactory and/or require multiple iterations of spoon feeding as they ask about complex (copied code) problem, but do not understand underlying fundamentals. So we don't even bother to close-vote them and then X days later they're bountied and the question is in no better shape and in many many many cases "asked and answered".
    – user1600649
    Commented Jul 13, 2020 at 22:47
  • 1
    @Melvyn the company wants to move in the direction of newbie friendly. They've shown they don't care much about the negative impact to site quality/experience if the end result is SO being more friendly to newbies.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 14, 2020 at 17:27
  • @TylerH Yeah, I've been seeing that. I wonder how long it takes before the downwards spiral has gone so far, that there no more answers to be obtained, because all experience has left the building.
    – user1600649
    Commented Jul 14, 2020 at 18:18
15

A question having an active bounty on it should not affect whether the question can be closed. A bounty being on a question doesn't necessarily mean that it is a good question or even an on-topic one. There are restrictions on when a bounty can be set, but those restrictions do not guarantee that the question is both on-topic and high quality and hence that it should not be deleted.

Especially on less popular tags, a question can easily get 2 days old to be eligible for a bounty without enough people seeing it to be able to close it.

Moreover, setting a bounty on a question raises its visibility - that means it just makes it more likely that enough people see it to be able to close it. Taking away user's ability to close a question with an active bounty on it makes it much easier for off-topic questions to live on, since after the bounty has expired, the question might again get out of sight for most users and hence gets harder to close.

I think the close vote privileges work well enough to justify giving users the ability to close vote on questions with an active bounty - I wouldn't restrict that to gold badge users with a dupe hammer, since that wouldn't really solve the problem for questions with less active tags, where only a handful of users (if any) have a gold badge.

1
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    Just for the record: High-frequency tags also frequently have bad questions get 2 days old without people successfully closing them. There is just so much policing people can do, and high-frequency all too often means more sand than pearls. Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 11:12
14

I recently had the situation of a bountied off-topic question appear in and I was surprised that I couldn't close it. Why would I think I should have been able to close it? I am a gold badge in that tag.

At a minimum, I think that anyone with a gold badge in a particular tag should be able to close a bountied question and have the reputation automatically refunded to the person who put the bounty on the question. I don't believe it should matter if there are answers to the question or not.

Gold badge users in a particular tag already have a number of tools that regular users don't have. I believe more power should be given to those that have shown an ability to understand a topic, and should have tools expanded to reduce the burdens on the moderators.

2

Based on our current roadmap, we don't have immediate plans to work on this request. However, we are planning to start some discovery work in late 2021 on the question close experience and will revisit this request when we start on that project.

1

I agree with this idea.

Some thoughts/proposals of others and mine bundled:

    1. Bountied questions should be allowed to be closed by 4 users and reopened by 4 users. These users must have reopen/close privilege.
    1. A vote of a user with gold badge in any of the assigned tags has the value of 2 usual votes. So 2 users with such gold badge can close the bountied question on their own.
    1. The bounty is not refund, if the question has been closed once, which gives an obstacle to set bounties on off-topic questions but the ability is there to use the same reputation points to reward the question for bounty again if it has been reopened.
    1. A question with at least one close vote or open moderator flag should not be eligible for bounty until the post has been reviewed by a moderator or at least 2 other users with close/reopen privilege or 1 user with gold badge in any of the assigned tags or the vote is expired.
    1. If the question already has answers or not or the OP already awarded a bounty to an answer doesn't affect the ability to close or reopen the question.
    1. If the OP already awarded an answer with the bounty until the question has been closed (the vote to close or the moderation flag has been cast after the question was bountied), doesn't retract the bounty awarding.
    1. A user which placed bounties for 3 as off-topic closed questions should be banned from awarding a bounty on a question for a specific time period (f.e. the next 3 months).

The points can be adjusted.

Feel free to comment and discuss.

-48

Maybe we can have a feature to let some users/mods check when a user is about to give a bounty to a question. For example, when I click giving bounty to a question, I will have to wait for 5 users/mods to approve if this question is legit and valid for a bounty. So, we don't have to worry about closing bountied questions anymore.

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  • 34
    we don't need to approve the bounty, we need to close off topic questions .. if you ask an off topic question it should be closed. If you happen to bypass the closure and you are able to set a bounty they we should also be able to close your question. It's about closing off topic question, not about the bounty. Commented Jul 10, 2020 at 11:19
  • 4
    I like this idea. It is not about "approving the bounty" - it is about approving the question as being OK as being open in the view of a quorum of site users before it enters a state where it can't (easily) be closed. Bounty questions may attract more time consuming answers and this gives some good assurance to prospective answerers that their time won't be wasted. Commented Jul 13, 2020 at 15:20
  • 6
    This answer suggests requiring more moderation which is a hefty cost. Temani's suggestion to allow bountied questions to be closed by regular uses allows moderation that otherwise would happen (if there wasn't a bounty applied) happen. There's little to no cost of that. Commented Jul 14, 2020 at 18:49
  • 2
    @ZachSaucier - the number of bountied questions is miniscule compared to other moderation tasks like reopen questions or posts from new users. Hardly "hefty". There are currently just 480 on the main site. Commented Jul 14, 2020 at 20:04

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