106

There have been a number of complaints on Meta recently about the suggested edit queue being at its cap. This is getting to the point where moderators are now fielding multiple flags a day from people asking us to make their edits for them because they can't be submitted.

This has been odd, because the suggested edit queue has rarely been a problem in the past. It always seemed to be cleared out relatively fast. Are we seeing a lot more edits being submitted? If I look at the site analytics for suggested edits, this is what I see:

Suggested edits over time

Suggested edits have fallen off dramatically since roughly the week of February 13. That's when the new top navigation bar went live. There is a slight lag, but that's possibly due to a buildup of reviews before the cap was reached.

This seems to indicate to me that the new navigation bar is the primary cause of the suggested edit queue hitting its cap on a regular basis. The reduction of suggested edits shown here would most likely be due to the cap preventing many edits from being suggested. If the number of reviewers had remained the same, but the number of edits increased, we should see a jump in the other direction.

The inability of reviewers to keep pace with the number of edits being suggested is becoming a problem, so what should be done to fix this? Should suggested edits be pulled out of the review dropdown and made a standalone link in the top bar? Should something else be done to direct reviewers back to this queue?

11
  • 15
    I can start the SOSER chat room?
    – rene
    Commented May 12, 2017 at 20:16
  • 3
    @rene: Maybe that room would be more appropriate on Seasoned Advice...
    – honk
    Commented May 12, 2017 at 20:29
  • 1
    @honk if you think I will be hated for it, I'm all in.
    – rene
    Commented May 12, 2017 at 20:31
  • @rene: Don't let me keep you. Just go ahead ;)
    – honk
    Commented May 12, 2017 at 20:33
  • 2
    I have opened an issue related to the edit queue on SOCVR next room meeting. Maybe some coordinated effort is needed to bring the number down. Commented May 12, 2017 at 20:45
  • 2
    Can you check if the slowdown also aligns with "wiki edits must follow rules" enforcement? (My guess it is... and could be other reason why - at least it was mine. Wiki edits piled up and I have to skip them to review q/a changes) Commented May 12, 2017 at 21:10
  • 2
    @AlexeiLevenkov - There hasn't really been a dramatic change there. Undo posted a call to action about this a year ago, and you don't see any significant impact of that in the stats, if I look back further than the above. Moderators aren't really searching out cases of this, we respond when people flag it, and I haven't seen a rush of tag wiki plagiarism reports in the last three months. At its worst, I think we had maybe 10 people banned at a time due to wiki edit approvals.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 12, 2017 at 21:33
  • 3
    @BradLarson thanks. Just feels like there was time recently when "why I'm banned for wiki edit approvals" threads on Meta were almost daily occurrence. Commented May 12, 2017 at 21:45
  • 2
    @AlexeiLevenkov - When multiple complaints are generated by the same review, it helps to make this seem more common than it is. Meta posts draw a lot of attention, and people are very quick to complain about review bans, so that can skew perception about how widespread this is.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 12, 2017 at 22:16
  • 1
    It is not the number of complaints that count, it is the number of people who read them. There were an awful lot of wiki edits in that queue last time I looked, couple of days ago. About half, seemed excessive. Commented May 12, 2017 at 23:21
  • 15
    -1 for the unmotivated non-zero started graph.
    – Alex
    Commented May 13, 2017 at 16:25

2 Answers 2

65

Short answer: yes. Well, probably.

Here are a couple of fun graphs:

Reviews per week

reviews per week since spring of '14 - they're falling off dramatically after a short spike at the introduction of the new top bar

...since February 24th of 2014, for no good reason.

Active reviewers per week

active reviewers per week, also falling

Same time period.

These are both across all review queues. The picture is actually somewhat worse for just suggested edits, since we're not driving folks under 10K directly to the suggested edit queue from the topbar anymore. I chose to chart all queues to illustrate the temporary bump in reviews and reviewers after the introduction of the top bar, and the (much smaller) bump after the removal of the count for the top-bar indicator.

Breakdown by queue

Here's an interactive chart of reviews per queue, in stacked area format:

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        r[cat] = cats[cat]||0;
        allCats[cat] += r[cat];
        subtotal += r[cat];
     }
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  .sort( (a,b) => b.date-a.date );

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     .range([0, width]);

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  var keys = d3.keys(allCats).sort( (a,b) => allCats[b] - allCats[a]);

  var color = d3.scaleOrdinal()
     .domain(keys)
     .range([...d3.schemeCategory20c, ...d3.schemeCategory20b]);
     
  var stack = d3.stack()
     .keys(keys)
     .order(d3.stackOrderReverse); // for aesthetic reasons, sort areas inverse of total
      
  var reasons = stack(catCountsByDate);

  var area = d3.area()
      .x(function(d) { return x(d.data.date); })
      .y0(function(d) { return y(results.logScale ? d[0]||1 : d[0]); })
      .y1(function(d) { return y(results.logScale ? d[1]||1 : d[1]); });

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      .attr("height", height + margin.top + margin.bottom)
    .append("g") 
      .attr("transform", "translate(" + margin.left + "," + margin.top + ")");
                
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        .attr("x", -margin.left + "px")
        .attr("dy", ".75em")
        .style("text-anchor", "start")
        .text(results.count);          

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  var countFormatter = d3.format(",.0f");
  var maxDigits = countFormatter(allCats[keys[0]]).length;
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      .data(keys)
      .enter()
      .append("li")
      .style('background-color', function(c) { return color(c);})
  .text(function(c) { return (new Array(maxDigits+1-countFormatter(allCats[c]).length)).join('\xA0') + countFormatter(allCats[c]) + ': ' + c; })
  ;

  
  // stolen from http://bl.ocks.org/WillTurman/4631136

  var tooltip = d3.select("#results")
     .append("div")
     .attr("class", "remove")
     .style("position", "absolute")
     .style("z-index", "20")
     .style("visibility", "hidden")
     .style("top", "5px")
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        var selectedMonth = catCountsByDate.sort( (a,b) => Math.abs(a.date-invertedx) - Math.abs(b.date-invertedx) )[0];

        d3.select(this)
           .classed("hover", true)
           .attr("stroke-width", "0.5px"), 
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Things that aren't problems

Wiki edits and the associated crack-down on robo-reviewing of wiki edits. The latter has dramatically reduced the number of edits (and reviews), but there were less than 200/wk for these to start with, so halving that hasn't had a big effect on... anything other than wiki edits. There are still well over 3 thousand active suggested edit reviewers per week, performing over 20 thousand suggested edit reviews... Apart from some minor meta drama, wiki edits are a non-issue here.

Solutions

I'm afraid there's no magic bullet; we need more reviews and more reviewers, a lot more reviews and reviewers. These were in decline before the top bar rollout, and that change has only accelerated the trend.

Things we can do to temporarily alleviate the problem that won't help long-term:

  • Increase the queue size. This'll solve the immediate problem of folks being blocked from editing... Until we hit the new limit and are back where we started.

  • Re-arrange the order of entries in the review drop-down to put suggested edits first. This might encourage more people to review suggested edits (instead of, say, Triage), but doesn't help with folks not reviewing at all.

  • Reduce the number of questions entering Triage - as the interactive chart above shows, Triage chews up a tremendous amount of time and effort on a daily basis... And most of the items entering Triage are sent there automatically based on various quality heuristics. We can make those heuristics more conservative & send fewer items into Triage, thus freeing up reviewers to review other things.

There's nothing wrong with any of these solutions; heck, if I was stuck on the sinking Titanic you better believe I'd be re-arranging deck-chairs like mad just to take my mind off of my impending death. They're just not gonna make much difference a week out, so we'll be right back here.

Longer-term solutions

  • Re-jigger the top bar to make it more obvious that highlight means "work to be done". I have no idea how to do this, so basically I'm just suggesting we sprinkle magic designer fairy dust on it. That's probably not a real solution.

  • Re-implement tag-specific review alerts. Remember when going to, say, the Java tag popped up an indicator highlighting the number of review tasks pending in the tag, with a link to the top filtered queue? That actually worked pretty well. Except for the bit where it broke the site. If we could do that without breaking the site, it would probably get a lot more people involved - and they'd be involved in areas where they could actually do some real good. The downside of this solution is that I've already tried to get it implemented at least 3 times; the first time broke the site, the latter two were denied because they'd probably break the site... So now I'm just suggesting we sprinkle magic developer fairy dust on the problem.

  • Run a big meta campaign to get more folks reviewing. Last time I did this (for closing), it actually worked pretty well; if I hadn't arbitrarily started the charts above in February of '14, you'd have seen this nice spike:

    Spike in early '14

    Lotta new folks on the sites since '14; there's no real downside to this, so we should probably do it. Worst-case, it does nothing.

The magic bullet solution I previously claimed didn't exist

Heh, so... I've been a bit of a jackass with all of the text and charts above. See, we have a big overarching problem with review involvement, but that's not not the critical problem at hand; the suggested edit queue filling up is the critical problem at hand. And... There's a really easy long-term solution to that, one we've been preparing for for a couple of years now:

Require fewer reviews to approve or reject edits.

Stack Overflow is unique in that it requires a consensus of 3 reviews to approve or reject an edit; every other site only requires two. Once upon a time, Stack Overflow only required two reviews, and the rest of the network one review - we increased both to combat a plague of bad edits being approved - the high number of reviews required on Stack Overflow was essentially intended to slow down the review process in order to give conscientious reviewers more time to review, uh, conscientiously...

...We've since implemented better solutions to that problem:

  1. In the fall of 2014, we started giving reviewers a period of exclusivity - you get a generous period of time to review a change now, rather than having to worry about a fast and careless reviewer sniping it out from under you. This immediately slowed the time to review edits by a considerable amount.

  2. In April of 2017, we started allowing authors and moderators to override reviewers' decisions on suggested edits, thus providing a way to handle carelessness and abuse even long after the fact!

In light of these two changes, there's no particular need for the number of reviews per edit to remain at 3 on Stack Overflow; reducing this should immediately speed up the process of reviewing edits, and thus alleviate the problem at hand. So I've done that - effective immediately, suggested edits require only 2 reviews to complete on Stack Overflow, just as they do elsewhere on the network.

That still leaves the bigger issue of fewer people reviewing fewer things... But that's a problem for next week.

26
  • 12
    "next week" in Valve time?
    – Braiam
    Commented May 13, 2017 at 0:51
  • 49
    Are there actually any measurable positive effects from the top bar redesign? Commented May 13, 2017 at 3:33
  • 19
    That'd make a great question, @m69...
    – Shog9
    Commented May 13, 2017 at 3:34
  • 6
    I think it would be more accurate to say the issue is reviewers attrition, Too many of them drop after bronze badge finding it hard to proceed to silver and gold ones. This is in turn most likely because you fail to educate them about use of filtering and skipping
    – gnat
    Commented May 13, 2017 at 6:13
  • 8
    From a quality point of view, I wonder whether it would make sense to require two reject votes for rejecting an edit and three accept votes for accepting an edit...
    – honk
    Commented May 13, 2017 at 6:32
  • 3
    So what happened in April 2015? Wasn't that the time that the profile pages where overhauled? It does seem that bigger changes to the UI have longer-lasting effects, the top-bar change was just too modest ;) Commented May 13, 2017 at 9:33
  • 22
    The top bar redesign is the primary reason I stopped doing reviews as well as visiting SO meta regularly. It's different from all the other sites (which I also use regularly) and I still get confused which icon to click, so I end up not clicking anything and do something else. Seems silly, I know, but for some reason it works like that. These stats suggest I'm not the only one. Commented May 13, 2017 at 11:58
  • 8
    @Carpetsmoker As a workaround, you can write this on a Post-it and stick it on your monitor: The review button is the speech bubble with a pencil in it. As another workaround in case the Post-it doesn't work, bookmark stackoverflow.com/review. Commented May 13, 2017 at 15:16
  • 10
    Am I the only one who thinks the little orange badge with numbers on suggested edits in the top bar might have had quite an effect? For example, when I have these red badges on the apps on my phone, they bug me to no end and I try to get rid of them (and I have heard many people say the same). I think that is significantly different from a simple color change like we have it now. Even more so if you actually never see any other color because, well, there is always work to be done...
    – Siguza
    Commented May 13, 2017 at 16:47
  • 7
    We just need a big flashing red arrow pointing to the review icon that goes away once you've completed your review quota in all queues you have access to for the day
    – user4639281
    Commented May 13, 2017 at 18:07
  • 2
    It's not that I'm not somehow not able to find solutions to this @dorukayhan, it's that I'm not that invested enough in doing reviews to actually care enough to implement them. Doing reviews is typically an an "in between task" for me: something I do in between other tasks; for example while waiting some process to complete, or just to spend a few minutes to clear my mind. Increasing the barrier of entry with an unfamiliar UI means I chose other things that have a lower barrier of entry (such as browsing questions or doing reviews on other sites). Commented May 13, 2017 at 18:53
  • 1
    @TinyGiant time to remove the arrow: ten seconds, of which five will be waiting for the "yes, install uBlock" modal to enable its OK button. Commented May 13, 2017 at 19:03
  • 5
    Yes @NicolBolas. The inconsistency is annoying and prevents me from really "getting used" to the new design. Commented May 14, 2017 at 16:18
  • 1
    @NicolBolas the spike is due the close vote queue (see interactive graph), maybe there was an event (from 11k went to 18k, then 15k). The LQRQ went from 8.4k to 13.3k, suggested edits 34.7k to 37, helper from 1k to 1.5k in the same week of the spike. Other's ain't as significant.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 14, 2017 at 16:33
  • 1
    When the number of items in the queue is > 150, the limit increases to 40/day, @BSMP. So, quite a lot of people have been doing more than 20 reviews per day for the past few months (a majority of reviewers who've maxed out their reviews per day during the past week have reviewed more than 20 in that day). The vast majority of reviewers don't review 20/day though, so this has little effect.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 15, 2017 at 22:04
12

So, one of the things I just noticed (a related topic, now deleted, just came up on MSE), not sure how related this is, but once you click on the review icon, its highlighting disappears until... some condition that I'm not sure about. But it stays the same dark color as the rest of the buttons for a pretty long amount of time after that, despite the presence of items in the queue. (The reason I "just noticed" is because I've been more active on sites with the old top bar recently.)

The old top bar behaves the same way, but has the word "review", which stands out merely because it's text, and looking at the bar always necessarily puts the word "review" in the user's head.

The new labelless buttons really don't look like anything interesting at all in comparison, and don't insert "review" into my brain in the same way.

Also it's pretty common these days for apps and sites and stuff to have large collections of unlabelled buttons in a nav bar, I hypothesize that this increases the tendency for the mind to disregard them as "noise" (especially when they all have a similar look), only to be clicked when a specific premeditated action is intended rather than suggesting that a user perform an action they otherwise wouldn't have considered. ("Review? Review what? Let's do this." vs. "Hey look, nav buttons, meh, and besides, hamburger menus raise my cholesterol.")

Why don't you try A/B testing changing it to the word "review" or constantly highlighting it? (Or even perhaps making each of the buttons a unique constant color, something to differentiate them from each other and make them look less like static noise?)

And, being serious, perhaps it's worth some input from the folks at UX?

4
  • 1
    "posts awaiting review" orange counter is way off
    – Braiam
    Commented May 30, 2017 at 18:32
  • 2
    The elephant in the room here is that none of the right-hand top-bar links are text now - so you have click them (or at least hover) to learn what they mean before they have any meaning to you. How much of a difference this makes I cannot say, but...
    – Shog9
    Commented May 30, 2017 at 20:53
  • 1
    @Shog9 Yeah. But that's the case with the old top bar, too, aside from "help". If just review were text in the new top bar, that's what could make it both stand out and put the task in your mind. The other ones don't seem to need much extra love, but the review tasks aren't just your normal user actions, they're essential for keeping the site operating smoothly. I'd venture to say it's even as important as "Questions", "Users", etc. (Probably more important than "Users"... or "Documentation" although, that's a touchy subject). It may even belong on the left.
    – Jason C
    Commented May 30, 2017 at 21:00
  • 4
    I would tend to assume this is a problem in the old top bar too, @JasonC - plenty of folks who (for example) don't check their inbox regularly. But review was a textual link (+ indicator), and now it's just an icon. So is help. So is the sites menu (plenty of questions about that already too). You'll note in Kurtis's answer that the change had essentially no effect on the links that were already icons, but hurt "help" (the link visible to the most people) pretty significantly.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 30, 2017 at 21:54

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