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I took my chances on this mutated huge topic, and put in some time to see what I can do. This topic is one of the worstest, even making it to the Reducing the number of examples... question by @Squidward, and it is wrong on several other counts too.

My draft I put some effort into, but is not anywhere complete

I have to emphasize: I don't like this draft. Actually, the more time I put into it, the more I hate it. I wanted it to be an elegant silver bullet to the situation, but it fails at that miserably.

It is probably better than the current status of the topic, but it is not yet anything I could imagine anyone would use efficiently. There are some parts that I both like and hate in it, that is why I put this up here.

What I hate about it:

  • lot of textbook content there (need larger cleanup than I am proficient with)
  • some parts should be in other topics - e.g. Stream related stuff should be a probably fit in the Streams topic (but that's two times full already...)
  • Fluff moved to "Remarks" - completely useless this way
  • "Cheatsheet" example on top - not a good single-responsibility example
  • Similar examples merged like "Adding and removing elements" - lost valid single examples

What I (at least marginally) like about it:

  • Fluff moved to "Remarks" - not cluttering examples
  • "Cheatsheet" example on top - I think this would be the most useful part of it (--> though not a good single-responsibility example)
  • Similar examples merged like "Adding and removing elements" - showing together what deals with similar aspects

During the time I put into this trying to get it somewhere, I got tired and I think I don't see the light at the end of a tunnel anymore...

Take it apart, and please suggest!

  • Is the direction generally OK or completely wrong?
  • Can you spot clearly good/bad individual parts of my edit in contrast of the current status?
  • Is it acceptable to reduce the amount of examples by merging them when they are of similar aspect (Adding elements, Removing elements -> Adding and removing elements)?
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  • Isn't "scratch that and do it from the ground up" an easier solution?
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 14:42
  • @Braiam I agree, there's a certain appeal to that, but I think it would turn out to be the same as it is now. This is why I went with trying to change it rather than go back to 0. (Plus, quite some people put work into that already, and that would just be like flipping the bird at them... Rep is just a game, but people don't like when they feel "robbed")
    – ppeterka
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 14:47
  • Ok, so it seems controversary to the audience of Meta too... 4 against 4 is from 59 views is exactly what my feelings are about this...
    – ppeterka
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:43
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    Ugh. I've had a draft for splitting the Java arrays topic already. Unfortunately, some idiot removed my improvement notice that explained about that. I hate it: I want the draft spot to be freed up, but I put too much work into making the draft to discard it.
    – Laurel
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:31
  • @Laurel thanks for chiming in, just checked the draft out (Travis linked the chat post) - and remember the flag story - I'm not surprised you are fed up with the situation...
    – ppeterka
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:33

1 Answer 1

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I don't see the Java Array's example being fixed unless one of two things happen:

  • authorship can be split
  • deletion

It needs to have its authorship split so that the content can be split. At present, this isn't possible so taking this example apart isn't exactly ideal as more than likely you will essentially steal ownership.

Really, this example should have its content broken out and spanned across several topics. However, retaining ownership of the content during that split cannot be done and as a result makes it virtually impossible to fix without simply deleting it and trying over (not copy pasting!) in other more applicable topics.

To get at the heart of the issue, having a topic named "Arrays" is entirely too broad to start with, so the entire thing was unfortunately doomed from the start and is now "Too Large To Fail".

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  • I've been thinking about splitting the topic - but how? What would be the new topics? Creating arrays, Using arrays - still too big chunks (seeing what the examples in the topic turned into), and to me, one is too tightly coupled to the other... (Also, the issue of the fluff and blabber textbook stuff would still need huge efforts...)
    – ppeterka
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:40
  • @ppeterka - Sure. The how is definitely an issue. It has also been discussed in several places including other meta posts and in the semi official docs beta chat room. You can see our discussion on it in chat starting here: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/32213053#32213053 and going for quite some time.
    – Travis J
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:50
  • @ppeterka I believe that a language like Java should have something so basic like arrays covered in the documentation. Think about it. What is actually novel about the topic that isn't already covered elsewhere?
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:51
  • @Braiam yes. covered, with the code parts separated with walls of text and unnecessary fluff. This is why I updated and copied one of the first revisions to the Creating and Initializing Arrays "example": that is truly an example of code for the various ways one can do that. If someone comes from Delphi (I mean the language, of course), and knows the concepts, all he needs is that part to implement his thing in Java. Also, going by your train of thoughts, just about everything is documented, so we don't even need Docs, right?
    – ppeterka
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:54
  • Travis, I just read the chat about it, and checked out Laurel's drafts too. That separation would be something I could agree with. (I even remember Laurel's flag that said don't touch it, but that probably went away with an edit) I wonder when we (or even the mighty mods) will have a tool to get this done right... (I agree, the troll inside me wants to delete the whole topic just to see the reaction, but I don't know the larger scale effect of this: how many people would turn away from contributing to Docs and give it a bad rep (pun intended), and what we'd lose this way in the long term)
    – ppeterka
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:19
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    "is now "Too Large To Fail"." It's not too large to fail at all. Just get rid of it. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:20
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    Yeah, this is beta, time to take radical steps along the way to finding out how the site should be used. Respecting legacy content seems very premature. I'd delete it and start over (as discussed with OP earlier chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/32563444#32563444 ), possibly after consulting meta.
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 20:11

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