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This question (image) recently came to the attention of users in the SOCVR chat room (an answer was posted in Spanish).

I saw two other answers that were link only: this accepted answer (image link) and this other answer (image link). I flagged both as not an answer. Both flags were declined as

flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention

The accepted answer was left as is, but the other was deleted.

Why were the two flags declined and why wasn't the accepted answer deleted?

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  • 22
    It's because different mods have different definitions of NAA - the other answer was deleted because it was flagged by someone else later and handled by another mod; the accepted answer 1) hasn't been flagged again since, and 2) is an accepted answer, so for all you know some mods might be more hesitant on deleting the accepted answer even if it was reflagged. How about they just add a dedicated "link-only answer" flag option to answers that contain links and be done with it? Sheesh.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:22
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    @BoltClock how about we stop pretending that this garbage is of any value. In 5 years question has gotten laughable 6 upvotes, and it couldn't get any more because "how does google do blah blah and what are best practices blah blah" is useless cr@p, and the answer with mere 11 upvotes is no better: "check out <URL>"
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:33
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    @gnat: How about people stop posting link-only answers to begin with? But that's only going to happen in a perfect world. In reality, people can't see eye-to-eye, people have different definitions of NAA, link-only answer, and indeed, even garbage. The best we can do is make things as clear for everyone as possible so that only those who lack any sort of reading comprehension skills will not understand.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:36
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    @BoltClock Just in case your Sheesh is in frustration, I/we get it. Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:37
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    @Sotirios Delimanolis: Heh. Glad I'm not the only one.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:37
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    @BoltClock the best thing moderator could do is instead of declining apparently correct flag is to delete the friggin' question and let asker and answerer keep their grandfathered rep before their score dropped under 3
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:41
  • I had to check to make sure the last sentence of my first comment (minus the Sheesh) wasn't specifically about the original question. It wasn't, AFAICT. Not that I feel like having a conversation about either topic anymore...
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 5:05
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    @PaulCrovella they have this guidance for over two years now (since March 2014) - "let me be clear: this sort of response is not an answer. If you see this, flag it. Moderators, if you see it flagged, delete it"
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 7:53
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    @PaulCrovella agree that currently it's rather worthless because some moderators openly ignore it
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 8:57
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    Can anyone add a pic of the question. For mere mortals.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 15:15
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    @Braiam Added a few images. Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 16:00
  • The question has been deleted now. Yay? Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 16:29
  • 2
    It does sometimes feel like if you have over x thousand rep, flags don't apply to you....Or at least they appear not to be enforced as often as they are for low rep users
    – Liam
    Commented Aug 19, 2016 at 8:14

3 Answers 3

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Without diving into discussion of whether decline was right or not I would like to point that moderator message on this flag looks very counterproductive... softly speaking.

General guidance for flaggers on answers like "Check out <URL>" is fairly straightforward:

If you see this, flag it

Guidance doesn't mention any limitations on age and score of the post nor on content of referred link.

In the light of this guidance, it is hard to imagine more confusing flag message than used in this case: "flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention".

Given explanation of the moderator who handled this flag I think that more appropriate message could look like this:

Age and score of the post along with link content indicate that this answer is valuable. Consider editing it to provide link summary instead of flagging for deletion

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    ...along with less confusing message it probably wouldn't hurt to mark flag helpful (while keeping the flagged post) to respect the simple fact that flagger acted in accordance with official guidance but oh well
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 10:53
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    The purpose of a flag is to bring a potentially problematic post to the attention of a moderator. That the moderator then applies his/her own judgment is not a bug, but rather a feature. I fail to see how the action was "counterproductive" here. Everything worked as intended, you just disagree with Brad's assessment.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 11:45
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    @CodyGray you got to be kidding. Did you intentionally misread my answer to add the senseless comment to make it look like downvote is justifed? I explicitly abstain of discussing mod action - it's right there, in the opening message: "Without diving into discussion of whether decline was right or not..." I am talking only about text of mod message. I guess you have nothing to say about my reasoning on message text that's why you preferred to add that irrelevant smokescreen about actions
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 13:12
  • ...and I don't feel a need to use a dedicated answer to just express my disagreement. 26 prior discussions of declined flags on link-only answers already have enough beating of moderators who try to keep these
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 13:13
  • If there is no good canned message for a common situation, perhaps the mod should root for one? They will get flogged by the crowd, but that's not a bug. Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 16:34
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    @JanDvorak I doubt that this is such a common situation. If you look at mod explanation, they spend quite a lot of effort prior to decline - checking the question and other answers, studying content of the link etc etc - this probably happens rarely. That said I think nothing stops a moderator from making and keeping a personal copy of such message if they find that it happens often enough to them
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 16:39
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I'm conflicted by this...

The asker obviously didn't ask for a NAA, so:

here's really only one valid exception to this rule, and that's when the question is:

Suggest me some tutorials where i can learn quick.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a bad answer - but when the question is kinda asking for bad answers this is to be expected.

Of course, the question wasn't stellar either, but someone with the right knowledge of web design may do a insightful answer explaining it... not just dropping a link. So, the question didn't fit the only one exception to be a total waste of the curator time. It flagged it accordingly to current guidance, declining the flag for some non-obvious reason that, well, nobody shares and frankly isn't according with what we are told that we should evaluate how the post fares "right now", not all years back, nor the potential future. The flagger did The Right Thing™.

Maybe this is a hint that we should stop flagging altogether, given that the supposedly "good content" was obliterated anyways, question and answers alike, we, as community, should go just VtC'ing and deleting stuff as we saw them... which is terribly inefficient compared to the shoot-and-forget tools that we have at our disposal, since it requires more friction of the system compared to simply deleting a good old NAA.

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I declined both of those at the same time.

I did so because I didn't think it was worth moderator time for us to go back and delete two upvoted answers (one upvoted 10 times) left five years ago whose links were still active. In particular, the accepted answer directly addresses the question asked, with the linked content having been written by the relevant team at Google. How does it make the site a better place to remove the true answer to the question?

I've never been particularly happy with the hunt to delete link-based answers where the links are still alive and have proven to be useful to others. You can quote to me what Shog9 has written about this, but I think hunting down older upvoted and accepted link-based answers misses the forest for the trees. Deleting these makes the site worse, not better.

I don't see how it's a particularly good use of moderator time to go back and delete upvoted answers that specifically address the question asked and are still viable. That's why I declined those flags with that reason.

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    There was no hunting down. The question came up in the chat room through some of the automated tools (iirc). While I was helping to deal with the other answer, I flagged these as well. Did you decline the flags in retaliation to send a message that I shouldn't flag this way? Presumably, it takes as many clicks to delete an answer as it does to decline a flag, so I don't accept the time argumemt. Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:48
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    @SotiriosDelimanolis - I'm not sure why you believe that I was retaliating for anything. Flag decline reasons are merely there to communicate if we believe certain flags had value, and if not why not. I didn't want to delete these answers for the reasons above, and I communicated this with the decline reason. Every flag we get takes time to evaluate, so it saves us time if we communicate what flags we don't want to see.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 4:54
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    That's what I meant. So, what is the threshold you recommend for these answers I consider NAAs? After how many votes is it considered useful? After how much time is it not worth the time to clean up? Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 5:02
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    @Sotirios Delimanolis: I would chip in with some numbers, but one of the answers had at most 1 upvote, so... I don't think I can do that :(
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 5:08
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    @SotiriosDelimanolis that's an interesting statement that using tools to hunt down old link only posts is not actually hunting down such posts... Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 5:47
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    I don't hunt down old link only answers, I come across them organically through search. Or I'll review something like an edit to the question, click through and see the answer.
    – davidism
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 7:22
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    If you're not happy spending time evaluating if the links are still good, stop evaluating like that and instead do what the flag says and evaluate only the content of the answer, which is link only. Time waste reduced!
    – davidism
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 7:24
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    I could understand why you keep these answers, fine. What I can't understand is why you decline flags when you have option to keep the post and mark flag helpful. Do you seriously expect that declines will scare off flaggers? When 18 other moderators do as Shog said and delete such answers, it is hardly possible don't you think? Do you expect that meta drama caused by your declines will help to somehow revert guidance about link-only answers or what?
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 8:11
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    You'd still have people posting on meta asking why we marked their flags as helpful yet took no action.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 8:33
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    @AlexeiLevenkov I think what happened here is a tool detected that this relatively new answer was written in a different language. While we were dealing with that, we tried to deal with the rest of the post. Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 15:38
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    "Deleting these makes the site worse, not better" Then why are link-only answers a valid NAA type? Following this logic, some links are good, some are bad and there's no criteria for splitting the two.
    – Mike Cluck
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 20:28
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    @MikeC - Yes, some link-based answers are good, and some are bad. Beyond the general guidelines: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/225370/… , if an answer is truly nothing but a link, I apply these criteria: have people found it useful (votes, acceptance, etc.), does it directly target the question asked, is the link still valid, and is the information in that link missing from any other answer or comment on the question? If the answer is no to any of these, delete. Otherwise, I believe you are removing useful information.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2016 at 22:06
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    @Magisch Declining a flag isn't really a hostile action. It may feel that way to folks with 95+% helpful flags (I know it did to me), but from my point of view it's not. When I see a bad flag (30+% of them, easily), I don't think "grrrrr, decline", more, "huh, decline". I don't see it as a way to get back at someone for flagging poorly, I see it as a way to send signal to the system. The system does whatever it will with flagging privileges, but 99% of the time I'm not even thinking about that when I decline flags.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 14:01
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    I didn't think it was worth moderator time .. some of us don't buy this argument. If its not worth your time then perhaps its time for another election.
    – trooper
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 16:30
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    You've expressed this opinion before; however, your actions in these cases only cause confusion, nothing more. Users are following the official guidance and being penalized for it, this makes no sense, let alone the cryptic decline message used.
    – user4639281
    Commented Aug 21, 2016 at 3:49

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