## What I like about idownvotedbecau.se * From the articles I've read so far, the advice seems helpful. People who take the time to read them will be in a much better place to ask productive questions. Very likely, comments with a idownvotedbecau.se link will be more useful in most cases than comments that don't include the link. In particular, it's a lot easier to answer "why the downvotes?" comments with a finely-honed article explaining the problem. * If articles _do_ need to be improved, anyone can make a pull request on GitHub. If there are any articles missing, there's a [well-considered contributor guide](https://github.com/WillSullivan/idownvotedbecause/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md) explaining the process. It's a great example of the community taking ownership of the site and how it operates. * It avoids the "enumerating badness" problem [I had](https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/134997/1438) with the "What Stack Overflow is Not" question from of old. * It encourages people to follow through on downvoting rather than just leaving a comment. * If people are consistent about picking appropriate downvote reasons, we could end up with a corpus of categorized posts for training a machine learning algorithm or creating heuristics for just-in-time warnings. * It's something regular users can use to help improve question quality without waiting for us to design, develop, test and deploy other systems. ## What I don't like Just one thing, so need for bullets: _it seems a long shot that these links will help many people ask better questions._ As I see it, the sequence for success is: 1. A new user ignorantly asks a question that deserves a downvote and could be fixed with an edit. 2. The user gets a downvote and a comment explaining the downvote. 3. The user is chastened enough to look for ways to do better _and_ is not discouraged. 4. The user follows the link and reads the advice. This is new information for them. 5. The user internalizes the advice and returns to edit their question. 6. (Optional) The user remembers the advice and asks a better question next time. Now for you and me, as experienced and invested Stack Overflow users, this doesn't seem farfetched. But remember a new user invariably has a broken mental model of how Q&A works. A common idea is that Stack Overflow resembles a forum where users discuss problems in a conversational manner. If we are to enlighten new users, we _must_ infuse them with a useful mental model of the site before they give up or get angry. So the critical step is #3. We need them to understand that editing their question is the only way forward. I tend to think [downvotes alone](http://jericson.github.io/2015/05/18/downvotes.html) do a good job of providing criticism without inciting arguments. However, explicitly tying a comment to a downvote tends to reinforce that it was a person and not the system that was critical of the post. Comments sidetrack people into unproductive conversations such as whether their code is really an MCVE or much effort they put in before asking. In other words, **commenting feeds the idea that Stack Overflow is a discussion forum** (with unfriendly rules). I know this is a data-free argument, but it is possible to analyse the actual results of these comments. For extant idownvotedbecau.se comments on Stack Overflow, see [this SEDE query](http://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/717578/idownvotedbecau-se-comments). (Note that the query is cached for the moment, but it will be very slow after the cache expires. A `like` query on millions of rows is [not recommended](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/relational-databases/search/full-text-search#like).) For a snapshot that includes deleted comments, see [this gist](https://gist.github.com/jericson/ea5ee11993c2ee935ccbb45a07e4808a). I've spot-checked some of these comments. I haven't found any that caused arguments in comments, but neither have I found any that prompted an edit. I'm happy to let the data change my mind if anyone wants to look in greater detail. ## A few suggestions In no particular order: * Bare links (http://idownvotedbecau.se/nomcve/) come off as cold and unhelpful. Very much reminds me of https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque. Taking a minute to fill out a personalized comment seems more productive. * If you can edit rather than commenting (or downvoting) that's much more effective. The most common case is when people add necessary details as comments. It's better to show than tell if your goal is teaching. * When someone asks "why all the downvotes?", a link to a full explanation seems reasonable. But it doesn't seem so reasonable to include the same sort of comment every time you downvote a question. I don't see people doing this, but it would be disappointing if we started to see downvotes accompanied by a reason as a matter of course. * We'd like to get at the problem earlier in the process. For instance, the [DAG team](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/351751/meet-team-dag-developer-affinity-growth) has considered changes to the [ask page](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/ask) that might help. The [mentoring experiment](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/353845/stack-overflow-mentorship-research-project) targets askers even earlier by letting a mentor help with their drafts in chat. I'm very excited to see the results of that project. I could see a use for a slightly different set of articles that explain "why I _might_ downvote". (Don't start working on those just yet, however!) In summary, there's a lot I like about idownvotedbecau.se and I don't see any reason to discourage it's use. But I also hope it will remain a niche tool for simplifying the process of explaining downvotes when the author asks in comments. (And, in case it's not obvious, other people on the Community team might have different opinions than mine.)