- The general atmosphere amongst the moderators is currently not the sweetest. A lot of them have resigned due to the issues on the site in the past year, and many others have significantly reduced their activity. COVID-19 has put pressure on our real lives, which is dragging the remaining ones down. The flag queue has been increasing, and has been higher than what it used to be in the past couple of years. In these testing times, what would you do to bring back happiness in the community, and motivate them to do more moderation tasks? Do you think you have the mettle to handle these gloomy situations, and help the Stack Overflow community bounce back on the moderation front?
First of all let me say, that the boundary of expectations is put very high in this question.
Unachievable by one person high really. It’s like Aragorn running forwards to the gates alone to battle the army pouring out. Unless a couple of hobbits will throw a ring into a volcano, victory cannot be achieved.
The last few years on Stack Overflow have been turbulent to say the least, which makes the role of moderator not exactly the shiny high price it used to be. Putting unrealistic expectations on people who are willing to take the step nonetheless isn’t really productive. I’ll settle for realistic goals, on a more achievable level, I wish to make a difference on the site, perhaps bring a bit comradery in the moderation sub community, serve as a tie breaker in conflicts and put in my best effort, spend half an hour, an hour a day working through the moderation queue’s, helping to break down the backlog.
I can’t promise I’ll be stellar, but maybe I’ll be average. Maybe that’s good enough. I’ll do my best to motivate others to keep going, to keep that towel out of the ring, but if it impairs their mental wellbeing, I will be the first to say, “maybe it’s time to call it quits for a few months. Take a holiday from moderation and consider if you wish to continue, and in which way you wish to continue”. It’s my opinion that some help breaking down the queues is better than no help. 25% effort is better than 0%. It’s not worth sacrificing mental wellbeing over.
- With all of the drama that has happened on the site in the last few months, why do you still want to run? What is it that drives you? What motivates you to still want to serve the community in good faith given your efforts will almost always go unnoticed, and that the folks you think have your back may at any point turn against you?
Well, if I needed question that summarizes how I’ve experienced Stack overflow the last few years, this is it.
What motivates me? I’ve been a member since 2012. Sometimes answering the nice questions, sometimes the junk questions when I got point fever where I wanted to reach a goal. Mostly I try to answer the interesting questions, or give a complete teaching answer to the questions that seem simple on the surface, with various returns on investments. Some answers take me 5 hours to type out, correct, revision, expand, etc... just to make it as accessible as possible.
What motivates me doing that? I wish to help people become better programmers.
What motivates me wish to become a moderator? I wish to keep this site free of spam, no effort questions, conflict and really, keep this site as the resource as it is.
Easily google able, making coding accessible for the next generation of programmers(although that is a double edged sword, as I just have a trainee who knows how to copy paste well…. But that’s another discussion).
In the end it’s a selfish choice to become a moderator, as I desperately do not wish to return to the days from before Stack Overflow.
For those who do not know, this was the everyday reality before Stack Overflow came along:
Author: XKXD License :CC BY-NC 2.5
If Stack Overflow were to go down to too much spam, low quality content, not getting enough ad revenue to justify keeping the servers up, etc… the internet would turn into a dark place for programmers, for me at least. For almost every issue I encounter I find a useful collection of answers on Stack Overflow. I wish to keep that alive for as long as possible.
- A high rep user of the site has started to link their own library in many of their answers. Tipped off by a flag, you see that they are overtly self promoting themselves, and handle it by deleting their answers and sending them a mod message asking them to update their answers and provide affiliation. The user is arguably furious after reading your message. They then post their own version of the story on meta without giving much information, and cite that you deleted all their answers. The meta crowd, who is half informed about the situation has brought out all pitchforks, as a high rep user has been contacted. What do you do here to de-escalate the increased tensions? Additionally, do you feel that high rep users must be given more leeway than low rep users, or should the law be the same for all?
Yes, uh, we start with the assumption that I would just blanket delete the questions. I would first try to approach the user in question and give them 1-2 days to remedy the situation before I would step in with a delete hammer. Unless the user has had previous warnings of the sort (can I see that as a moderator? No clue).
If someone has made a useful library of course that person is going to encounter a lot of questions that that library applies to in some form or another, but maybe that person doesn’t know about the disclosure rules or forgot, and it was a honest mistake.
I prefer in such a case that the person can correct himself before I do this public display of deleting the posts and then undeleting them etc… That costs a lot of energy, strive, frustration just become someone wishes to help. When possible I’ll try to mitigate that on beforehand.
But let’s assume I’ve not given it much thought because I was jaded at some point and just deleted the answers promoting the library, the meta scenario ensues and I arrive with my pizza’s to the room on fire.
I think I would make an answer to that question with an answer something along the lines of:
I understand you’re upset userXYZ that your answers have been deleted, It’s never fun to have your hard work removed from public view so abruptly and thoroughly. You’ve probably worked hard on the library you were promoting and just trying to help others with it.
I apologize for the inconvenience and perhaps the message I’ve sent you explaining my actions got lost between other interactions on the website and you missed it. In it I explained that your promotion of your library is perfectly fine, but you need to edit in a full disclosure that you are the author of this library as explained by Brad Larson How to offer personal open-source libraries?. Just mentioning it in your profile isn’t enough as many people won’t click through.
If you edit in the disclosures in your answers, I’ll be happy to undelete them as soon as possible.
Again, my apologies for the frustration caused, and I hope this clarifies why your questions were deleted.
After posting that answer I’ll leave it alone, and it will boil itself dry if there are people who still wish to rail against my decisions. They will find a new target to rail against soon enough. I did my job to the best of my abilities, I can’t do more.
- How aware are you of the controversial events on the network from Q3-4 last year? Assuming you are aware, what makes you still feel you wish to nominate now? Show us you know exactly what you are doing when you are running in this election. In particular, moderators are (should be) representatives of the community and its best interests, not the company. How can you find balance in representing what is the best for community and at the same time avoid conflicting the company to the point where the company may decide to remove your privileges?
The only reason I’m here is to keep Stack Overflow afloat so I have an easy repository of answers. If the company wishes to take my privileges away because my opinions, let them. It’s a US company, and from what I’ve seen from the internet, US companies are, to put it in nice terms, not nice. All that counts at the end is the bottom line. I don’t care, all I want is for them to keep hosting this repository of knowledge, and keeping it as clean as possible to increase the chances that they will keep hosting it.
The last 2-3 years have been an eventful time on Stack Overflow where I’ve even briefly considered stop using it a few times. It has hurt me to see this community in pain through the actions of the company multiple times, to see the community ignored, trampled on and then ignored again. Until too much of the community revolted and moderators started dropping like flies. Then the company took notice (as their SEO rating probably tanked due to increase in spam, duplicate content, making the site less valuable to Google, thus decreasing ad revenue, that’s just my pet conspiracy theory though, ignore it). It was an emotional time. I’m not massively active on meta, only voicing my opinions on pieces where I think it has added value, but mostly looking from the side lines and observing, and hoping the community will survive.
For the community I’ll go an extra mile and try to be there for them. Help them when possible by removing junk, handling flags and stepping in when needed. I will not shut my mouth when I don’t want to, and if the company disagrees they can remove my moderator privileges and find a new person to dig through the pile of flags. I’ll happily keep on answering questions and participating on the site as a normal user.
I expect them to remove my privileges. Every day I can help the community as a moderator by keeping the site clean is basically a win. I have 0 trust in Stack Overflow the company. I have a lot of faith in the community, even with all the bickering back and forth on Meta on various subjects.
- Stack Overflow is moving into a new era with the next generation of developers / engineers / enthusiasts emerging. As you have a high candidate score you have been here long enough to not remember what it was like when you started here as a user (things changed, okay?). Why do you think you are the right person to guide / understand / support the upcoming community that is so much different with different needs and a different attitude? Please elaborate.
Did the needs really change? Perhaps they have. I have a trainee currently who isn’t a champ at coding original code but can do wizardly things with copy pasted answers from Stack Overflow that suit his problem. Is that a typical member of the new community that I’m expected to nurture? Perhaps it is.
Or perhaps it is guiding them into not posting the same duplicate questions that have various good answers that together come to a workable solution. But you can’t copy paste it, you need to work for it, lay the links to a solution yourself.
I think my work ethos of the olden days on Stack Overflow still apply: Be kind, be helpful, be firm.
Help new users by posting a comment, explaining problems helps sometimes more than just plain deleting a post. I wish for people to become thriving members of the Stack Overflow ecosystem, and help them on the way to that path, how hard that may be as all the easy questions already have 20.000 duplicate questions.
Just blanket closing a question may not be productive for a new user with 1 rep who has a genuine problem but never knew how to google for the right answer, but allowing that question to live isn’t acceptable either. But closing as duplicate may also scare them. I would have to see situation by situation basis how to lessen the “blow” for new users, who still need to learn the ropes, that we are not a forum, that we like to keep things neutral and professional like a workplace. Sometimes a comment may be in place, sometimes a mod message, depending on the situation. But I would try my best to explain and to guide them to how to improve their question and to find their way on the site.
I’ve spent my time hanging around several questions, just to catch the original poster so I could explain what went wrong, why alternatives were better and how to look for it in the future to prevent he same outcome. Most of the time it was appreciated that I invested the time.
I doubt that I need to change that approach. Personal and kind. But when needed the scythe comes.
- A user has replied to an increasingly heated comment chain and used an ambiguous yet colloquial word that can be gender neutral to many people, but carries an implicit male context by itself ("dude", "guys", etc.). This comment draws a few red flags, including a custom moderator flag that accuses the person of violating the pronoun code of conduct. There's nothing else flag-worthy about the comment. How would you handle this?
I would look at the context of the discussion. If it drew multiple flags it means multiple people were triggered by this, which says something about the intent communicated by the message which makes people trip over this.
Then I will see what action is needed. Maybe a mod message to the offender to please refrain from using those term as per code of conduct as multiple people took offense to that use, and to please keep language to workplace appropriate levels. You wouldn’t normally call your colleagues dude either, unless you have a cool job, then totally do that. and delete the relevant comment chain, as the comments are intended to improve/clarify the question/answer and not a permanent fixture for all prosperity.
Depending on what was discussed I might send a ping to the author to include relevant details in their answer/question if that hasn’t been done yet, before I delete the comments. The world has come a long way in the last 120 years, abolishing slavery, capital punishment, child labor, gay rights, social healthcare, workers’ rights, etc…(not all the world though sadly) I just see this as a part of a trend where the world tries to become a little bit more peaceful and nicer to live in. Let’s just go with the flow and make the people happy for whom this is important. It doesn’t affect me, but it means a big deal to them.
- There have been several unpopular features lately, changes in moderation policy
forcedprompted by SE, and a promise by the company (I am not stating this promise has been kept.) to listen to feedback from the community. Given this I have a two-part question (with the second part being the more important part in my view):
- What do you think a moderator's role should be when an unpopular feature is rolled out by SE?
Voice my opinion as a member of the community. I am not paid by the company. The worst they can do is remove my moderator privileges and my account. Big deal, their loss.
- What would you, as a moderator, do when faced with a controversial decision announced by the company, one which you personally disagreed with, and felt was bad for the community at large?
Depending on my role and the proposed rule: A) Begrudgingly apply it, B) Resign
I will not make a fuss probably. I’ll just shake the dust of my feet and become a normal member again if it’s a big thing I’m totally against. I will not enforce things I don’t feel comfortable with. Unless I’m paid a nice sum of money of course. Everybody has his price, but I doubt Stack Overflow will do that.
- How would you deal with a user who produced a steady stream of valuable answers, but tends to generate a large number of arguments/flags from comments?
Probably with a mod message explaining the consequences of the persons behavior and the amount of work it causes.
Hello posterXYZ,
I value your contributions to the site highly, they are very detailed and popular. However, in the comments on some of your answers a lot of people take offence to the way you have phrased your comments. On answer xxxx you posted for example “blue is the new orange”, and this resulted in 7 people flagging your comment for xyz. The same for comments a, b, c.
A lot of your comment chains tend to devolve in a heated argument which doesn’t always end nicely. Please note that comments are intended to clarify/improve a question and answer, to be constructive to improve the content, not for debating subjects. We have chat rooms for that when needed.
Please try to refrain from debating and arguing in the comments, as it causes a lot of work for us moderators to review, and it doesn’t contribute to your answers in any way. Please try to take a constructive approach in the future and find an avenue to improve your answer and if that is not possible walk away from the argument, and flag the comment you find useless as not needed anymore.
- Do you see moderators as a cooperating team or as a collection of individuals with the "nuke" button? (Note: "nuke" is used as a general term here, referring to the fact that all actions by a moderator are binding and take effect immediately.)
How does a team with nuke buttons sound? We work together, but seperately. We stay in contact but als repect eachothers opinions on certain matters/descisions. You do it together, as a team, but the work on the ground is performed by the individuals, but with always the team in the back of the mind.
How would you handle a situation where another moderator closed/deleted/etc. a question that you feel shouldn't have been?
Not all moderators have the same knowledge. One may be more fluent in Java, another in C# another in COBOL. There are times where it is hard to ascertain the contents of a post and the finesses if it doesn’t fit within your comfort zone.
Sometimes you just take a best guess from a mod panel, and you worked away a load of flags. Mistakes can and will happen in such a situation. In such a case where I would encounter another mods closing/suspending etc… where I feel it was unjustified I would try to talk to the mod about the motivation, reasoning, and see if we can find a common opinion. It can be that the other mod convinces me, or I convince the other mod, or we agree to disagree. In only one case the question gets reopened. I will default to the initial judgement of the other mod.
Could you be convinced by fellow moderators to revert one of your moderating decisions (delete/close/undelete/reopen/suspend/unsuspend)?
Yes, with convincing arguments. As I explained above, making mistakes is human. Correcting them should be part of the process. The convincing argument to me can be:
Tschallacka, you were a bleeping moron. If you had opened the question you would have seen the glaring issue at hand.
- Given the trials and tribulations that Stack Overflow is facing—not just with some high profile departures from Stack Overflow moderation—what makes you believe that you'll be motivated and capable of handling the many responsibilities of moderation?
I’m just a moderator for fun. I don’t take it too seriously nor will I invest too much of my personal energy in it that I’ll be deeply affected by things that rock the boat, the events of the last year have scarred me, and I'm not willing to let Stack Overflow come "too" close yet. I do deeply care for the community. It's complicated to explain how I feel. When needed I’ll just step back and let someone else fill in the place. In the end the chances are likely that Stack Overflow will be gone and replaced by something else in 40 years. I will not waste years of my life worrying about things that will probably vanish within my lifetime. I have too much life to enjoy.
I think this slight edge of not caring that much if I'll keep the moderator job, is what will help me keep my sanity if events like in the last year would occur again(I really, really, really hope not)