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I'd recently cast a mod flag (The dedicated flag throws an error) in the Staging Ground for plagiarism. This got declined with the message:

This is what staging ground is for. If the user doesn't edit the bad question it won't get posted.

I don't disagree with the moderator decision since it does make sense since reviewers can handle this very easily by submitting a "Major changes" review. This does give rise to the question though as to how the community wants plagiarism to be handled on the staging ground since we've never had that discussion before and also lack anything in the guidelines for the same.

Given the above my question is: Should the community flag Staging Ground questions for plagiarism or should we handle them by using "Major changes" reviews?

If we decide to handle plagiarism using "Major changes" reviews, a few more points to discuss:

  • Should we get the plagiarism flag removed from the Staging Ground flag menu (currently broken anyway)? This should be possible since the SG already shows a filtered view of the flag menu.
  • Should the reviewer guidelines be updated to add this guidance there.
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    It seems rather unusual that a question is plagiarized, what would the asker gain by that?
    – Marijn
    Commented Dec 6 at 7:06
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    @Marijn The particular question I flagged had quite a lot of content from a course, the user wanted to ask about an error they got while following the course but instead of just asking about that they copied lots of content unnecessarily from it without proper attribution. Commented Dec 6 at 7:08
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    Interestingly, there was another discussion regarding a declined R/A flag on "gibberish" in Staging Ground where it seemed the consensus was that that was in error due to a "mis-click" and to flag posts over just marking them as "requires major changes". I argued similarly that "this is what SG is for..." and that flagging wasn't necessarily the best first action. This is exactly why flagging often feels like a crap-shoot. Even if we are successful in updating guideline I won't hold my breath hoping they are consistently applied.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Dec 6 at 17:15
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    I honestly don't think it occurs to most students that the content of their assignment handouts is subject to the same attribution requirements as the sources they use to do the work. Commented Dec 6 at 21:06
  • Relevant reference: What to do when plagiarism is discovered (not in the Staging Ground). One detail I would call out is that editing to fix the plagiarism (instead of flagging) is listed as an acceptable one-off solution in minor cases.
    – JaMiT
    Commented Dec 7 at 1:24
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    This... was an incorrectly declined flag. The question not being posted does not solve the plagiarism problem. In fact, the question was posted, that's how you were able to view it. It's just that it was posted in the Staging Ground, not on the main site. Plagiarized content doesn't belong in SG, either. This much should be obvious. I hope that the person who declined the flag will say more about it, but I can say that this decline does not represent the general position of the elected moderator team.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 7 at 13:29
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    I was the person who incorrectly declined this flag. This was due to my misunderstanding of how SG is meant to handle AGC. Apologies for the confusion folks, I will make sure not to make this mistake in the future.
    – Sal StaffMod
    Commented Dec 10 at 14:07
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    @Sal If you don't mind me asking, what was a staff member doing handling AIGC flags on SO? I'm not familiar with your role, so apologies for any confusion. Commented Dec 10 at 15:46
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    @NotTheDr01ds SO devs are allowed to participate in Mod actions. I was dealing with a bunch of flags that day, trying to be helpful 🙃, and I just happened to handle this flag. The fact that it was AIGC related was a coincidence.
    – Sal
    Commented Dec 10 at 17:15
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    Just wanted to mention I've hence split out my personal SO account from my work account. I'd like to participate in SG non-authoritatively going forward. I wasn't let go or anything 😅 And it was entirely my own idea to do this based on the standards I set for myself.
    – Sal-SE StaffMod
    Commented Dec 10 at 17:21
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    @Sal-SE I'm quite happy to see a dev partaking actively in moderation, perhaps the mods might see some useful stuff coming out from your activity. I don't particularly mind the flag decline, I'd already reviewed it major changes along with the flag anyway :P Commented Dec 10 at 17:26

2 Answers 2

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This is an area where I'm more interested in the spirit than the letter of the rules.

About homework and the SG

Why do we care about plagiarism? I can think of two reasons (or perhaps two categories of reasons, depending on how one counts):

  1. The site could get in trouble for violating someone else's copyright, DMCA rights etc.

  2. Someone could gain (actual reputation points, notoriety, praise from the OP...) for someone else's work while that other person goes unrecognized.

The first is generally dealt with by editing (although not everyone will be able to make the edit).

The second doesn't seem like it would apply in SG. We're only talking about questions, and people don't go to Q&A sites to get famous for asking questions (even if I like the sound of a world where that was feasible).

From the comments, it sounds like generally what gets plagiarized is assignment text. It's not clear to me exactly what might need to be cited, or how. Especially if the assignment text was sent to students directly or is only available on a login-protected courseware site (or, heaven forbid such luddites still exist: physically printed and distributed, and retyped by the student). Are we expecting something like: "I have an assignment which asks: {block quote of assignment text} [{surname of OP's instructor}, {year}. {Title of assignment}.]"?

But more importantly: almost certainly, such text is entirely superfluous for the question that's actually being asked. We already have general standards for focus and clarity, and we have specific guidelines for posting homework questions, that would mean a copy and paste of the assignment text has no place in the question. Students are expected to phrase the problem in their own words, and to be able to distinguish "fluff" (e.g., introducing a fictional character who wants the problem solved, or describing a physical situation being modeled by the input data) from the actual problem.

As such: such content needs to be edited out anyway, but it certainly will be before making it into a main space question (if that ever happens), and there is no potential for illicit gain in it.

As such, I can see no reason why moderators need to get involved.

About vandalism and "gibberish", vis-a-vis plagiarism

I agree that flags should be used when someone posts complete gibberish in an SG question - i.e., text that doesn't appear like it's even intended to convey a question about programming, even in a foreign language.

But I don't think plagiarised content in a question is analogous to that. When someone posts gibberish, the intent is to abuse the site. But when someone copies and pastes from homework, the intent is to abuse the assignment. I have to assume good faith when it comes to interacting with the site. People could easily legitimately believe (wrongly, of course) that the site is there to "help" them with homework; people like this want their assignment completed, and are simply not thinking in terms of whether their actions make Stack Overflow a worse place. Whereas it's impossible to post gibberish deliberately without the understanding that it's disruptive and unwanted.

Someone who walks into an auto shop demanding driving lessons may or may not be confused, and may or may not be trespassing. But such an individual is not a vandal.

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    While I agree with what you're saying, there are cases of people plagiarising the whole question to get internet points. It can happen and it can be flagged.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Dec 7 at 4:27
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    "The first [site ... in trouble for violating someone else's copyright] is generally dealt with by editing (although not everyone will be able to make the edit)." No. The way this is handled from a legal standpoint to prevent the site's liability is through a DMCA takedown notice filed by the copyright holder or their agent. That is the legal method for handling issues with regards to the site's potential liability. [Note: that doesn't mean that users couldn't comment suggesting that the post's author verify they have the right to copy.]
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Dec 7 at 17:06
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I meet you halfway. I agree the flag needs to go... it needs to be a review option instead.

Because "major changes" does not really cover the severity of the situation in my opinion, having a dedicated Contains plagiarized content review option (or any similar name) gives a much clearer signal to the author and others that the content under no circumstances is fit to go to the main site, and what's wrong with it.

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  • I see your perspective but I'm concerned whether adding a new review option is something that the company will be willing to undertake. Also won't the workflow of this proposed option basically be the same as major changes since some plagiarized questions can be fixed (The one I flagged can likely be fixed if OP focuses only on their problem) Commented Dec 6 at 9:59
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    @AbdulAzizBarkat If a lack of willingness to do something by the company would be a blocker for suggesting something, we might as well just let meta be and hang out in chat. The main point here is that this goes beyond identifying that the post represents a "bad" question in the context of Stack Overflow. It is actually a step worse where if posted to the main site it would get flagged and that flag goes on your record. It can use more urgency behind it.
    – Gimby
    Commented Dec 6 at 10:10
  • To be honest, I don't think adding another review option for something that isn't very common causes more issues than it helps (I'd also want the "Conditionally approve pending minor edits" option to go away) as it is just more to think about for reviewers. Also, using "Requires Major Changes" can give a clear signal to the author if the reviewer writes a good comment.
    – dan1st
    Commented Dec 6 at 10:24
  • @dan1st did you perhaps not mean to have the "don't" in the "I don't think adding". I think you're trying to say that adding an extra option would be confusing / more work for reviewers but the negation causes it to mean the opposite. Commented Dec 6 at 11:02
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    Yeah, I changed what I wrote while writing it and messed up in that, I don't think adding another option would do much good / I think it causes more issues than it helps.
    – dan1st
    Commented Dec 6 at 11:09
  • "I'm concerned whether adding a new review option is something that the company will be willing to undertake" The company has, at least, been more receptive to changes/improvements to the SG, unlike a certain ̶D̶i̶s̶c̶u̶s̶s̶i̶o̶n̶s adult content advertisement section of the site, @AbdulAzizBarkat
    – Thom A
    Commented Dec 6 at 11:22
  • "gives a much clearer signal to the author and others that [...]" -- Isn't this clarity the purpose of the comment that is required to select "major changes"?
    – JaMiT
    Commented Dec 6 at 20:40
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    @JaMiT no, because fixing the problem generally doesn't involve fundamentally changing what is being asked. The "off-topic" section of options in the SG is for problems that can't be fixed without asking a different question. That's why e.g. "caused by a typo" is in there - fixing the typo means there is no more question at all, and realizing that there's another problem behind the typo means a new question about that other problem. Commented Dec 6 at 21:10
  • @JaMiT because the plagiarism is fixed by removing it from the question, but removing the plagiarized content from the question does not change what question is being asked. Commented Dec 6 at 21:33
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    For future readers of the comments: I've deleted the comments of mine to which @KarlKnechtel was responding, because I now believe them to be based on a mis-reading of this answer. The earlier comment that remains is not what the responses are to. (If I notice those responses disappear, I'll delete this comment as well.)
    – JaMiT
    Commented Dec 7 at 0:45
  • "the [plagiarized] content under no circumstances is fit to go to the main site" -- But this is never true. If we're talking about just plagiarism (leaving other issues like copyright violations and appropriateness aside), there is a very simple circumstance under which the plagiarized content becomes fit to go to the main site. Just credit the original author. That resolves the plagiarism aspect. there might be / probably are other issues to address, but those would not be clearly identified by your proposed "Contains plagiarized content".
    – JaMiT
    Commented Dec 7 at 0:51

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