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It seems unlikely to me that most users who initially come here because they have a question, will be motivated by reputation or privileges. Is there anything else we can offer them to encourage engaging with the site constructively (i.e. joining a community that builds a high-quality Q&A library, rather than seeking a help desk or discussion forum)?

I recently wrote this comment in the Staging Ground:

Please keep in mind that Stack Overflow is not a discussion forum nor a help desk; we have high standards for questions because they need to serve everyone's needs, not just your own. The goal here is not to make your code work, but to help build up a useful, searchable resource.

I wanted to edit this to tack on: "By using the site as intended, you can" - but I drew a blank on offering any reward that might be actually enticing. I would prefer not to invoke threats like "... avoid an automated rate limit or question ban".

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    "Is there anything else we can offer them to encourage engaging with the site constructively" - onboarding and systematic support from the company to make sure the Q&A actually helps users engage with the site as intended, and for the company to define the intent to be the same as the community currently defines it. Commented Aug 25 at 19:05
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    The title and body seem to ask slightly different things. The title is what it is, but the body seems to be rather about what we can offer to new users after they are already here and used it wrong. Which one are you actually asking about? For the former, the tour seems clear on what we offer. For latter - frame challenge - should we offer them anything? Commented Aug 25 at 20:01
  • @MisterMiyagi it hadn't occurred to me that it would make a difference.... Commented Aug 25 at 21:06
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    The more quality they will put in their Question, the more quality they will get in the Answer(s) they will receive, "quality in = quality out", deriving from the same principle as "garbage in = garbage out".... // Nice English idiom btw, this "to draw a blank", I didn't know it, I thought it came from "to shoot blanks", ... but nope...
    – chivracq
    Commented Aug 25 at 21:22
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    One thought that popped into my head is that new users lack comment privilege. We could modify comment privilege to something line 100 rep (which ii is now if I recall) to being awarded after reaching 100 rep or posting five well-formatted questions or answers that receive no downvotes. Which if all or upvoted would work out about the same, but by adding the receive no downvotes would provide comment at half the current requirement. Just an idea, not a particularly creative one, but an idea. Commented Aug 26 at 22:55
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    @DavidC.Rankin in general, there is no software support for awarding privileges based on anything other than reputation. I agree with you that these are good ideas, but they would have to be designed and implemented first. (Or you could try Codidact, which at least offers something vaguely along those lines.) Commented Aug 27 at 0:26
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    "What is the incentive specifically for new users to use the site as intended?" Getting an answer.
    – philipxy
    Commented Aug 27 at 0:43
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    "For latter - frame challenge - should we offer them anything?" - We offer them a choice: shape up or ship out :-)
    – Stephen C
    Commented Aug 27 at 6:46

4 Answers 4

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You said it yourself - many users initially come here because they have a question! For those users, the most important incentive will likely be an actionable, high-quality solution to their problem. So something like this might be convincing:

Please keep in mind that Stack Overflow is not a discussion forum nor a help desk; we have high standards for questions because they need to serve everyone's needs, not just your own. The goal here is not to make your code work, but to help build up a useful, searchable resource. Using the site as intended will attract high-quality answers to your question. Conversely, posts that do not benefit the community as a whole are likely to be closed, which prevents you from getting an answer until you [edit] and improve your question.

(Character count: 578)

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    Eh, if they come here asking a discussion or help desk "question", no amount of question quality is going to get them "an actionable, high-quality solution to their problem". Commented Aug 26 at 5:24
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    @MisterMiyagi it depends, at least some helpdesk-questions can be improved to proper questions. E.g. while "XYZ does not work!?" is a terrible question, it could be improved into something like "How can I fix XYZ throwing [error code]?"
    – A-Tech
    Commented Aug 26 at 13:12
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    @A-Tech Fixing titles isn’t the challenge. Cutting down the case to be about just the minimal problem is, and then applying the cut down solution to their initial problem. Yes, some Q&A can be created for many of these questions, but they won’t actually be about the problem they want fixed. Commented Aug 26 at 13:28
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    What benefits the community as a whole is not always immediately apparent. I've gone ahead and tried to answer any number of questions that have been closed for various reasons, but seemed perfectly reasonable questions to anyone who had a good understanding of the application the question applied to. Commented Aug 27 at 2:38
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  • Well I see two entries into the site. 1) you use Google, Bing, etc. because you are looking for an answer, and you found one. That's the whole point of Stack Overflow after all, to be in the top search results. This should be the intended use of the site. and 2) you want to ask/dump/outsource a question, thus you go to stackoverflow.com directly. What is definitely a safe assumption is that people who just navigate to the site are looking to hit that very visible ask question button. Maybe because Google/Bing/Etc. came up bupkis but that is less likely to be part of the equation.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 28 at 12:12
  • @KarlKnechtel Have done, and understood. But there are people, very knowledgeable, very capable, who review/answer questions on a wide variety of topics here. By and large, their replies are utterly trustworthy, and if they close a question, it's for good reason. I happen to be expert at one particular program, so I can often fill in the blanks that the OP might have left out or simply can understand a question that someone less familiar with the program might not grok. The question's often perfectly reasonable in context of the specific app, so I'll answer it, closed or not. Commented Aug 28 at 13:48
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For people already expecting to use SO* as a discussion forum or a help desk?

None.

Seriously, let’s not fake pretend that questions asked with that mindset just need editing and polishing. They are not suitable for this site. No amount of care is going to create a significant intersection between "good fit for SO*" and "discussion or help desk topic".

Implying otherwise is just going to get everyone frustrated.

If they have a discussion or help desk topic, they should not ask about it on SO*. Let them know that with their current topics, they should look for a more suitable site. Dangling a carrot in front of them does not help get that message across.


* Excluding SO discussions.

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New user here.

I sympathize with the “garbage in, garbage out” problem, but if SO requires beginners to ask questions expertly, engagement will decline and sincere questions will go unanswered.

When I’m a beginner, I often don’t even know what question I should be asking to solve my problem, let alone which parts are part of the problem and which aren’t! But if I ask it that way, I risk being shut down for asking too vague a question, or for asking SO to “do my homework for me”.

But am I conflating new SO users with novices? It has not been easy to gain enough reputation on SO to actually engage on the site. I had to spend hours trolling for a question easy enough to answer and good enough to not be immediately closed. But when all the easy questions have been asked and all the easy answers have been given, is there another way?

Perhaps questions and answers have outlived their gatekeeping usefulness. Maybe comments or votes could become the initial way to “get in”. I don’t have a way in mind to stop people from gaming it, but the rising entry barrier has no mechanism for lowering, so it will eventually be impractically high.

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    Thanks for your input! "When I'm a beginner, I often don't even know what question I should be asking" this is very true! I watch C++ and most people don't even know the right terminology to correctly ask their question (I mean this as no flame on them, I just mean you can't ask about "most vexing parse" because if you knew what it was your question would already be answered)
    – Tas
    Commented Aug 26 at 21:50
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    In dozens of cases I see daily, it's not so much that the beginner hasn't asked expertly, it's that they've failed to provide even a bare minimum of information to reproduce the problem. In most of these cases, it's literally impossible to help without more information. They're just fishing for an answer in the off-chance someone can mind-read or has encountered the exact same problem, and are only willing to put in 30 seconds of work to dump the request off. I don't think every question needs to be a beautifully-written artwork, but it needs to be actionable and have context and an attempt.
    – ggorlen
    Commented Aug 26 at 21:52
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    @ggorlen another perspective on this is that they're used to a different model, where one starts off with a general description of the problem they're having, and people ask follow-up questions. That's a pretty common model in chat spaces and likely discussion forums as well, but it's not how Stack Overflow works. Evidence for this includes phrases like "I can provide code if people would find it helpful" in questions. It is, in my opinion, an issue of the platform not sufficiently conveying expectations when onboarding new users.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 26 at 21:58
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    For years I've been working on perfecting my non-snarky version of "You're asking a question about code, yes? Of course you should provide the code." It's harder than it looks. I think I have it down to about 10-12% snark at this point. Commented Aug 26 at 22:05
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    @RyanM I promptly respond to almost every one of the questions I can't answer in tags for which I'm a SME, asking for a [mcve] and context. I'd say 94% of the time there's no response. When there is a response, it's usually "sorry, I can't do that, can you help anyway?" or there's a language barrier/miscommunication. I mostly comment so that if I visit the post in the future, I'll be able to re-up my stale close vote quickly and avoid spending time looking at it unless there've been edits. It takes work to ask a good question.
    – ggorlen
    Commented Aug 26 at 22:05
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    And David, yes, it was a lot easier, both asking and answering, years ago when there were still a few "Beginner-level" questions that hadn't been asked. Commented Aug 26 at 22:07
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    I hate to cherry pick, but this is a pretty typical/daily example. And then people accuse SO of toxicity for not answering this. It's literally impossible to help with this and assuming OP spent 30 seconds on this is extremely generous--more like 5. This one showed more effort, but still zero follow-up and impossible to assist, and they didn't bother to read the guidelines about asking for packages. The list is endless.
    – ggorlen
    Commented Aug 26 at 22:08
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    TL;DR, I see more "drop a bad question and leave the website forever when it isn't satisfactorily answered within 2 minutes" than "I'm ready to collaborate with commenters and help provide information they're asking for chat-style".
    – ggorlen
    Commented Aug 26 at 22:13
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    @ggorlen I suspect that 2nd one that seemed to show more effort is actually AI-written (example for comparison)...which makes responding difficult if they don't understand what you're asking them for. And yeah, I'm not sure what people like that first example are thinking. They never saw your comment (other than maybe via email), because they left ~an hour after asking & never came back. Those sorts are probably hopeless, but many aren't; we want to help the ones willing to put in effort, but who just aren't used to the SO model.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 26 at 22:29
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    @RyanM "another perspective on this is that they're used to a different model..." I wish I could award bounties to comments on Meta. You absolutely nailed it. Commented Aug 27 at 0:25
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    @RyanM And just as an aside - one of the things I like best about the Staging Ground is that it helps close this gap. It's our version of that iterative question/answer model, except instead of teaching them how to solve a problem, we get to teach them how to ask a question!
    – Anerdw
    Commented Aug 27 at 2:45
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    "actually engage on the site. ... what other way is there?" Helpful engagement that doesn't happen enough: Voting up or down. Improving valuable posts with edits. Finding good duplicate targets. These won't earn you beaucoup internet points, but they might spark the idea for a less-beginner question. And armed with your duplicate-finding skills, you can determine whether your question really is new. Commented Aug 27 at 16:41
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    @Michaelcomelately For quite a while after learning enough to productively contribute, I didn’t have enough reputation to even vote (by far the most accessible way to engage). Several times in particular I thought I could add useful clarification with a comment (in fact I’m adding that to my answer).
    – David
    Commented Aug 27 at 19:34
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    Technology's not static, either. If there's a program or a language where you follow the release notes, you might be able to find questions where past Askers wanted to do a thing that is newly possible or newly changed. If you understand the change, you can add new answers if they haven't already been added. Make sure you're really answering the posted question, though. Commented Aug 27 at 20:39
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    @David You don’t need to comment to add clarification to posts. Propose an edit instead. (Yes, the edit queue is frequently full. Now imagine what a workload it would be if we had to review comments as well if they were an entry level privilege.) Commented Aug 28 at 13:57
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I think there's a disconnect between the community's intent for the site and the company's.

The community still tries to make this a knowledge base where something simple like changing the entry point from "Ask question" to "Contribute" may help to make it clear that their question has a larger purpose.

Stack Exchange, Inc. is more in its "cash cow" phase where it already has the data to sell but restrictive licensing and processes such as archiving are nibbling at their bottom line.

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    I don't think there actually is a disconnect... it's more that we're all nostalgia hounds and keep pretending. You only have to look at meta to one day see a person living in 2008 and writing up a stellar feature request with all the hopes in the world that it'll be implemented and the next day being painfully aware of "the company" that does nothing of the sorts. I'm probably guilty myself, it just happens.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 28 at 13:51
  • @Gimby - The difference is that when we used to get asked for feedback on something, there would always be a follow up response (or multiple) until something had been refined in a way to suit everyone. Nowadays unless the feedback supports the initial proposal, its common to be overlooked and something new replaces it to repeat the cycle. I don't even care that they're in a cash cow phase, money good, just don't screw over your existing clientele while doing it for no reason
    – Sayse
    Commented Aug 29 at 8:04

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