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I just failed a review task for this question, which has ~20 upvotes and no downvotes at the time of this writing:

All of my Selenium scripts are raising errors after Chrome updated to version 127 because I always have to select a default search engine when the browser is being launched.

I use ChromeDriver 127.0.6533.72.

How to fix it?

To me, this seems like it needs debugging details - I would like to see a more precise error message at the very least, and preferably some code to see how OP is using their script.

Is my conception of "needs debugging details" too stringent?

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    I'm not sure what debugging details are needed. Seems fairly clear - Chrome 127 forces users to choose a search engine on startup. If you run Selenium that launches Chrome 127 the unexpected choice gets in the way of executing the code. The precise error message doesn't really matter, since it's just whatever garbage Selenium would spew when it can't interact with the things it knows about. NoSuchElement error or whatever. I can't see how the precise error would help in any way.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 5 at 5:14
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    What code they use is irrelevant, since any code would raise this error. It's highly voted because it's a sudden change that's affecting a lot of people, who are searching for the same thing ("selenium error default search engine" or similar), and finding the solution they need here..
    – yivi
    Commented Aug 5 at 5:19
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    The error raised would be helpful. Commented Aug 5 at 6:20
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    I use Selenium and I can confidently say that the precise error message obtained by the OP in particular is not relevant. Should they try to navigate to another page and expect a button to be present, it will fail because that button will never appear. Should they just try to gain focus of a text input element and type in something, that would not work either because the default search engine thingamajig is on the way. Each use case scenario could yield different error messages for the exact same cause, which is described in the question.
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 5 at 8:36
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    This is one of the most common gotchas when reviewing: an update for software X comes out that breaks some common task for programmers, everyone suddenly gets errors without needing to do anything specific to get those errors, someone asks on SO and gets massively upvoted even though the question contains very little detail on how to reproduce the error except task + version of program. Lesson: if you see someone complaining about something that used to work but no longer does after an update, don't slap a "needs debugging details" on it except if you know that update didn't break anything.
    – Erik A
    Commented Aug 5 at 13:30
  • I find that an unusually low upvote count actually, I'd expect the problem hits a lot of people. One day your stuff works, the next it doesn't due to a browser update. And worse still, the fact that the tests don't work blocks release pipelines from completing. That is going to be a very bad working week for a lot of people.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 6 at 8:36

1 Answer 1

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Yes, I think your view is too stringent and perhaps could be tweaked slightly. I think the question is clear enough and does not need a MCVE, so I don't think the question needs to be closed. So I disagree with your choice to vote to close. But I don't think it warrants you being banned from reviewing.

Review audits are notorious for sometimes being erroneous. Sometimes you get suboptimally chosen audits. This is an unfortunate aspect of the current system, and no fix is likely to appear any time soon.


Diving into details:

  • There is no requirement that every question have code. The lack of any code is not a flaw with the question.

  • I'm not sure whether the question would be improved by including a specific error message. If there is a distinctive error message that is specific to this misconfiguration, including it would help others with the same problem find the question via web search, but I don't think that is required or sufficient reason to close the question. If the error message varies based on unrelated circumstances, then there is no error message to include.

  • "Needs debugging details" only applies to debugging questions. I don't see this as a debugging question.

Should the question be closed? I'd say no. In borderline cases, I suggest we go back to the purpose of closure. As I see it, the purpose of closure is to make sure that questions are clear enough that they can be answered, it's clear enough what criteria to use in voting on answers, and that the question will be useful to others. I think this question meets those purposes: it is clear enough to answer, it is clear enough that anyone who is encountering the same problem can vote, and it is an issue that multiple people are encountering. One of the purposes of closure is to avoid a situation where someone asks an ambiguous question, eager people jump in and answer the question based on some assumptions, and then we later discover that the assumptions weren't correct, and now we have a mess. I don't think that's likely to be a problem here. So I would not vote to close this.

I don't think voting to close would accomplish much useful at this point. I think a better response would be to edit in the missing information, if there is a way to do so and improve the question, or to move on.

Regardless, I don't think cases like this (where we can imagine reasonable people making a case for voting either way) should be used as audits. Unfortunately, the current system uses automated rules to select questions to use as audits, and as such, it can sometimes make a poor choice.

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    "I'm not sure whether the question would be improved by including a specific error message." Probably might be slightly better. However, even without that the question has 5.5k views and 20 upvotes. So, people seem to have found it without the error message. Overall - nice to have, not really required.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 5 at 7:21
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    "I think the question is clear enough, so I don't think the question needs to be closed." Correction: OP said they thought the question needed an MCVE, not that it was unclear.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 5 at 15:32
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    @TylerH, Thank you. I've revised that sentence to state my position more clearly. See also the following remark: `"Needs debugging details" only applies to debugging questions. I don't see this as a debugging question.' Or, to put it another way, I think it's worth asking why we have a MCVE requirement for debugging questions, and then asking whether those reasons apply to this question. I don't think they do. Feedback on that reasoning is welcome.
    – D.W.
    Commented Aug 5 at 17:20
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    @D.W. Any question asking about author-written code resulting in an error message requires an MCVE/MRE by site rules, so by the letter of the rule, yes, OP's code and the error message are technically required. By the spirit of the rule, and speaking practically, this is a case that is caused by a vendor change rather than OP's code, so while the error message may be useful, the asker's code is almost certainly not useful (given, as others have stated in comments on the Meta question above, that any code in this version with these settings would result in this error).
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 5 at 17:42
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    So, I believe you're both right; this is a poor audit item because OP is right: it does miss an MCVE, but it's a rare example of a case where an MCVE is not particularly helpful despite being technically required.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 5 at 17:43
  • @TylerH, Thanks. Your conclusion makes sense. Do you have a link to the particular site rules you are thinking of? I'd like to review the precise wording. "Asking about author-written code" sounds like it leaves a lot to interpretation.
    – D.W.
    Commented Aug 5 at 21:18
  • For example: stackoverflow.com/help/minimal-reproducible-example refers to "debugging question" not to "question asking about author-written code". meta.stackoverflow.com/q/286757/781723 says "there are problems that don't benefit from code at all" and describes when to ask for code and when to refrain from requesting code.
    – D.W.
    Commented Aug 5 at 21:18
  • meta.stackoverflow.com/a/291485/781723 discusses some reasons for including code, but doesn't say that a MCVE is always required; it merely says that if you include code and ask us to identify the problems in it, then it should be minimal and reproducible -- but if you don't include code, presumably that is moot.
    – D.W.
    Commented Aug 5 at 21:18
  • @D.W. The "author-written code" in my first comment was not official verbiage, just my way of referring to the fact that there is code here that OP has control over. When troubleshooting code you have control over (e.g. can change) and that code is throwing an error, you have found yourself in a debugging situation, regardless of whether you personally wrote the code producing an error. That first link is thus the official word on the matter, along with the banner that is presented at the top of questions closed for lacking an MCVE/MRE.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 5 at 21:22
  • That text, for everyone's benefit, is: "Edit the question to include desired behavior, a specific problem or error, and the shortest code necessary to reproduce the problem. This will help others answer the question" (bold emphasis mine) The text itself links directly to the help article you linked a few comments above.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 5 at 21:23
  • @TylerH, I think we have a disagreement about whether this question is a debugging question. I think that is a judgement call. I don't think there is any site rule that clearly implies that this question is a debugging question, or isn't a debugging question. So I disagree that the letter of the rule definitely implies that the question violates the rule; I think it's a judgement call whether that rule applies here or not. The text you quote only applies to debugging questions. I think we agree on the bottom line, that this is a poor choice for an audit.
    – D.W.
    Commented Aug 5 at 21:29
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 5 at 21:49

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