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I posted this question "Why does std::expected overload all reference type qualifiers for many of its member functions?", and it was confusingly closed for needing details or clarity.

On its face, the title alone should hypothetically be all the information needed, in my opinion. What is confusing is that the first three comments also seemed to have no trouble understanding what I was talking about, and I got the answer I was looking for.

But today, it was closed for needing "details and clarity". I mean, I guess I could have spelled out value() const &&..., but my question was not about specific member functions, and that would be for novices to understand what I'm talking about, not domain experts.

Maybe that would be nice to have, but me listing out (&, const &, && and const &&) should have been enough, and regardless, it's certainly not enough to warrant a closure right? Especially when virtually all information needed to answer the question is in the title, since those encompass "all" the reference type qualifiers.

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    "all information needed to answer the question is in the title" but needs to be in the body. Also there is a second question in the post body. Also "why" a language was designed a certain way is typically only known by the designers & it isn't a "practical programming" question, it's a history question. Not to say this has affected post reactions.
    – philipxy
    Commented Aug 3 at 18:06
  • @philipxy I don't think I understand what "second question" you're referring to - presumably I've edited it out now anyway, but I didn't notice. If you meant "why is this necessary" vs. "why wouldn't it work with just these options", I think that's really just restating the same question. The question also isn't about the language design AFAICT; it's about requirements for libraries in order to satisfy the design. Commented Aug 3 at 18:24
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    @KarlKnechtel The sentence that ended with the question mark. I consider it different. But now you have added a third question. It is different still. Don't write, "in other words", write the words that clearly say what you mean. Saying different things isn't saying the same 1 thing. What indeed is the 1 question the post is asking? (It is possible to say some 1 thing in other words if one is being precise enough, but usually one is not precise but also one is teaching a non-precise concept & doing it is bad for trying to ask about something.)
    – philipxy
    Commented Aug 3 at 18:30
  • I'm afraid I simply don't understand why you consider them different. Commented Aug 3 at 18:36
  • @KarlKnechtel The comment edit time ended before I could change language to language/library. Anyway it's clear enough that here language would include library.
    – philipxy
    Commented Aug 3 at 18:36
  • @KarlKnechtel OK take 2 out if they're all the same.
    – philipxy
    Commented Aug 3 at 18:37
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    You got plenty of feedback comments under your question and you have ignored all of them. If you don't want your posts to be closed, you should address at least come of the comments. Even if you think that some things are obvious, they might not be that obvious to others. Also SO is meant to be repository of knowledge, that means that not only experts will read your question, but also other people that might have similar problems and sometimes clearly stating even obvious things can help those users to recognize that their issue is the same as yours.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 3 at 18:50
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    Question has now been closed as a duplicate. If you think the duplicate does not address your question, then please edit the question and explain the difference.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 3 at 18:52
  • @DalijaPrasnikar I did not get "plenty of feedback" got a single rude person on a tirade under my comments who didn't understand what reference qualifiers were, the only feed back I got was that first comment before I replied to them (which straight up didn't apply), and I was met with a retalitory down vote from them, which they self admitted. That being said the duplicate does cover my question, though the comments should still be preserved on mine, since they contain information not in the dupe target, but that doesn't justify the weird bluff.
    – Krupip
    Commented Aug 3 at 19:26
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    @DalijaPrasnikar I don't think I'd agree that the comment feedback was sufficient to actually understand a fixable problem with the question (e.g. some of it was simply suggesting that the question is trivial, which is not a strike against questions here). But the duplicate you've turned up looks pretty good to me. Commented Aug 3 at 19:59
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    @KarlKnechtel your explanation here is much clearer that those comments, that is for sure. However, instead of engaging with those commenters in a constructive manner, OP made rather inappropriate response which was subsequently deleted.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 3 at 20:25
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    @Krupip People will often provide feedback without downvoting the post immediately. If the post is not improved and the user does not show any intents to do so, then it is not unexpected that post will be downvoted. That does not make such voting retaliatory. I can understand that asking questions on SO can be frustrating experience at times, but trying to fight with very people you are asking for help is not the most productive thing you can do.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 3 at 20:35
  • @DalijaPrasnikar Did you no see what he posted? He said " I think you should make your question more specific by asking about any one particular overload at a time instead of asking about all four at once" That's a complete nonsequitr, it points out completely not understanding the domain. The guy had nothing constructive to contribute. Imagine you posted a question in python about "How to use magic methods" and somebody replied "Well, you have to specify what kind of magic you're using, black magic, white magic, etc...?" That's exactly what this dude did.
    – Krupip
    Commented Aug 3 at 20:51
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    @SecurityHound There weren't any rude comments from other users on that question.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 4 at 6:31
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    @Krupip I have read their comment and I have also read your question. I don't see anything wrong in that comment. I am not saying that question shouldn't be about all four overloads, but from the question I gathered that you don't understand the particular overload(s). So in that line focusing only about the ones you don't understand makes sense.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 4 at 6:45

1 Answer 1

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Your title here asks "What details does my question need?", but then you express confusion over the fact that the question was closed with the standard close reason "needs details or clarity".

The issue here is that the question needs clarity.

For example:

Why wouldn't regular const/non const overloads work, instead of having 4 different ones?

I think that "regular const/non const overloads" means 4 versions in total - because there are two separate things that each require a const and non-const variety.

If you meant, for example, "why do there need to be separate versions for ordinary references and move-references?", then you should say that, in about as many words. That way, it doesn't come across like a plain rant ("4 versions is too many to keep track of!") and points at the specific point of confusion. I guess this is what you were really getting at.

If you meant "what does the && mean?", then you should actually ask that - but I'm sure it's a duplicate. (I don't think you meant this, given the context. But it's important for completeness.)

If you meant "Why are there 4 overloads in total, considering these qualities?", then I don't know how there is a meaningful question underlying that. The best I could tell you is "because 2 × 2 = 4".

If you meant something else, I can't fathom it.

I mean, I guess I could have spelled out value() const &&..., but my question was not about specific member functions

You should do it anyway, because it's standard policy that information necessary to understand the question should be in the question itself. It takes barely any additional space to do this, and makes things easier for everyone else. Please remember at all times that questions (and answers) exist for everyone's reference. Hence, for example, my inclusion of the "what does the && mean?" possibility above.

It doesn't matter that the question isn't specific to std::expected.value - if you're making an example of something, then we should immediately see the example. It's the same principle as how, for a question about something that goes wrong with code, we expect an MRE in the question. The fact that the MRE isn't your actual code, is irrelevant, and is absolutely not a reason to hide that MRE behind a link. (If you want to use someone else's MRE for some reason, then copy it, with attribution.)

but my question was not about specific member functions, and that would be for novices to understand what I'm talking about, not domain experts.

Are novices not entitled to understand the question, and possibly learn something from seeing it answered by experts?

Are experts somehow hindered by explicitly spelling out the example?

Clear communication benefits everyone. Questions and answers are for everyone.

Please seek to be as clear as possible in writing questions.

(Note that being plainly redundant does not generally improve clarity, but being explicit does.)

it's certainly not enough to warrant a closure right?

I think I actually agree with you. Nevertheless, please make sure you understand how closure works why it's used. Changes like these are important, and closure is in part a tool for advertising where they're needed. Unfortunately, we don't have a bounty system for question edits. And really, it would be better to make these changes yourself when possible, rather than taking up time and space on Meta.

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  • I have edited the question in accordance with my understanding, and voted to reopen (and queued it for consideration). If I got the main thrust of the question wrong, please feel free to fix that over top of my edit. Commented Aug 3 at 18:19
  • It's deleted. Sigh.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 7 at 15:00

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