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The Staging Ground's environment is a bit different. Typically, two users can together vote a question as being off-topic or as a duplicate. This means that reviewers can expediently handle questions that aren't fit for SO or have been asked before. I thought that the choice to move from the site-wide 3 close vote threshold to 2 was a good one in the SG because:

  1. These questions are asked predominately by new users and are more likely to be unfit for the main site or have been asked before. It's nothing personal or newbie-hating, it's just that we get a lot of questions like this.
  2. The SG is not nearly as discoverable of a place as main-site Q&A (unless you're accessing SG questions from the home page listings). This means less power users will see these questions and willfully review.
  3. The question author can edit their question and place it in "Re-evaluate" status, allowing it to be reviewed again, during which time a reviewer can publish it to the main site instantly (or determine that "Requires Major changes" is a more fitting status), effectively "reopening" it. This is extremely different from main-site Q&A where it requires 3 users to vote to reopen (under normal circumstances).

So color me shocked when I noticed that my off-topic vote here didn't "close" the question as off-topic.

"Close" is in quotes here because the SG tries to avoid the "closed" terminology as much as possible. Why that's the case is... Odd... But not central to this question.

It seems that the off-topic vote threshold has been raised to 3 in the SG. I do not see any correspondence about this change here on Meta, and am asking for this to either be fixed if it was unintentional or changed back if it was intentional.

Let me be clear: While I personally took issue with the usage of certain closure reasons in the Staging Ground (the use of "Seeking recommendations for off-site resources/libraries" for questions asking for help with using/implementing a specific library or tool, to name one), that's a problem that's far more prolific outside of the SG anyway.

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  • 5
    If there are 2 votes for off-topic then also a user should not be able to single handedly promote the question... It should be at least 2 as well. 2 user (effectively) VTCs should not be countered by a single "remain open" vote.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:01
  • "The question author can single-handedly reopen their question by submitting an edit" This bug is still here?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:47
  • 4
    @TylerH I thought that was intended? Editing + submitting for re-evaluation effectively reopens the question for re-review. Technically no "reopened" event occurs in the timeline, and the question can be returned to its prior status using "Decline Re-evaluation", but functionally the question can be approved from its re-eval status and posted publicly.
    – Spevacus
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:48
  • 2
    @Spevacus When a question is closed it should remain so until voted to be reopened, not until it is edited. It may be "intended" but it's misguided if so because it's basically a bug in how a logical workflow for question status should work (and obviously conflicts with how it works for normal questions on main, too). Can you imagine how bad question quality on main would be if closed questions were reopened any time OP edited the question?!
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:51
  • 2
    @TylerH Of course! But the SG was intended to be completely different in that regard. It's easier for reviewers to mark stuff as off-topic/duplicates (well... less so now, I guess...), easier for a question author to edit + dispute that, and similarly easy for a single reviewer to say "No, that question really is off-topic/a dupe" and decline re-eval. These questions are held in the SG and not posted publicly and aren't able to be answered until someone says "This is fine for the main site" anyway. We shouldn't have to vote to reopen things in the SG.
    – Spevacus
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:54
  • @Spevacus I disagree; SG reviewers can be wrong. But it's far less likely that they are wrong and a new user is right about whether a question should be closed. I also recall a declined re-eval can be overridden by another reviewer--posts in SG are never truly "closed" from further review AFAIK unless they are deleted or published, aren't they?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:57
  • 4
    The point of closure is to prevent answers and signal to others about the topicality. You can't answer Staging Ground questions until they are published. Allowing users to request reevaluation about closure makes quite a lot of sense. It still requires a secondary review. It's no different than the main site where users edit and push into reopen queue. The only difference is that in SG it requires one reviewer to handle instead of 3... @TylerH
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:57
  • @HenryEcker OK, so the description in the question is inaccurate then? SG askers can't unilaterally reopen a closed question just by editing it? (I fully agree w/ the idea of allowing users to request re-evaluation. That's not my concern.)
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 18 at 15:58
  • 2
    Askers can edit and request re-evaluation. I think terms are getting confused because there is nothing called "closure" in staging ground. There's also nothing called "reopen". It looks like Spevacus' reasoning for the term is in the comment here @TylerH
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Jul 18 at 16:00
  • "Closed" as in "marked as off-topic", @TylerH ; which in the SG means that the question will not be promoted to the main site, and would be deleted after a period of time. But a user with a question in the SG marked as off-topic can still submit that question for re-evaluation. "Closed" and "Opened" are not quite the correct terms here, but they are the terms most users are familiar with.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jul 18 at 16:01
  • 3
    What is true, however, is that any reviewer can unilaterally overrule 2 (now 3) off-topic reviews by publishing it to the main site. Which gives all reviewers unilateral "reopen" privileges by publishing out from under the close banner.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Jul 18 at 16:03
  • 1
    SG statuses are actually: New (shouldn't need explanation), Minor Edits (marked as needed small changes and will be approved automatically after an edit), Major Edits (requires significant changes and after an edit will be marked as), Re-evaluate (The Author has made edits they feel meet to changes requested, is effectively in a similar state to New), Off-topic (the post has been deemed off-topic and will not be promoted to the site), Duplicate (question appears to be answered elsewhere) and Posted Publically (post is on the main site). In SG terms "Closed" would be Off-topic and Duplicate.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jul 18 at 16:05
  • 1
    If closing would only happen for questions that can never be on-topic, I would agree with stopping reviewers from single-handedly reopening posts but that's just not the case.
    – dan1st
    Commented Jul 18 at 18:37
  • 6
    This is what happens when off topic has ambiguous meaning. When questions that are asked on wrong site and programming questions that don't meet other quality guidelines are all called off-topic, it is perfectly understandable that people will use off-topic instead of "Major changes" in SG. It is rather confusing now.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jul 18 at 20:30
  • 2
    @DalijaPrasnikar The more salient distinction is "could (not) plausibly be fixed without fundamentally changing the question". Commented Jul 19 at 20:22

2 Answers 2

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Thanks for the report. In the process of refactoring some code, I eliminated this particular variable as I mistakenly believed that it was the same as the site-wide value. I've shipped a fix and it should be live in the next day or so. Apologies and thanks again for bringing it to our attention!

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    Ah, curse of the rogue refactor... A pain known by many. Thanks for handling!
    – Spevacus
    Commented Aug 7 at 15:26
  • 5
    The nice thing about working for a site that a ton of developers use is that they feel my pain when I have to fix a bug I caused! :)
    – kristinalustig StaffMod
    Commented Aug 8 at 14:15
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This change was made accidentally, as an unintentional result of some other work being done behind the scenes. We are working on fixing it, and will follow up when that is complete.

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  • This might be related to some bugs we noticed. Basically since the design assumes only two votes are needed for marking the question as duplicate / off-topic the auto-publish clock isn't reset on the 2nd vote and if the question is auto-published only the 1st vote is copied over without the 2nd vote. Don't know whether it would be worth it to update these as well to work consistently according to the current number of required votes. Commented Aug 6 at 18:02

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