-13

Here are two different questions:

  1. What is the best and fastest way to generate data way with std and ranges?
  2. C++: compile-time "dominoe update" using fold expressions

Both have a lot in common in terms of the reason the first question was closed: "Update the question so it focuses on one problem only.":

  1. Both questions have only one question which splits into three sub-questions; I would even say that in the second case these sub-questions are more standalone and self-sufficient than in the first question.
  2. Both questions started with the code which somehow disappointed the user JaMiT for the first question.

Not considering the specific content of the questions (it is quite subjective), I have a question, based on the close reasoning for the first question: what makes these questions so different in these terms(!) that the first one got a downvote and three votes to close, while the second one got an upvote and was answered?

Just curious what lessons could be learn here?

Again, please, don't focus on technical specifics of the first question, it wasn't the official reason to close it and I am quite sure that the person, qualified with std and ranges can answer this question at a glance. And, really, I don't think it is a good idea to create 3 questions instead of this one.

28
  • 1
    I mean, both are less than a week old. Voting in the the short-term is more about hitting the question list with a topic at a time when people interested in that topic are active.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 19 at 16:50
  • 21
    "What is the best and fastest" is also a huge red flag. I'd not be surprised if someone clicked in and downvoted for that specifically.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 19 at 16:51
  • @KevinB, I would understand if I named it "Best and fastest" like for advert, but what is wrong with "What is the best and fastest"? Commented Feb 19 at 16:59
  • 14
    Because "what is best and fastest" is often shorthand for "I don't know how to determine what is best and fastest for my scenario." If you can't determine what solution is the best for your scenario, why would you expect people who don't have access to your environment to be able to accurately determine that? Most of the time which one is fastest is irrelevant anyway, and which one is "best" is just personal opinion.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 19 at 17:02
  • @KevinB, this really sounds strange for me. When I ask such a specific question on the library functions I assume there are lots of people who uses it daily basis and can just answer "it should be used this way - short text and best generated code, so best and fastest". Every library has its basic default approach to handle such things. It was just developed for this. That's why I asked, because I know for sure that any library expert could answer this at a glance. Commented Feb 19 at 17:09
  • 3
    Right, but that can be implied. You don't need "What is the best", you simply need to ask "How do i do X" and people will provide the "best" answer. Don't add useless qualifications to your questions that can't be directly objectively measured. "Best", "most straightforward", "fastest", etc
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 19 at 17:09
  • @KevinB, thank you, let's give a try and see if it would work. But my question above is different, the closure reason is "Update the question so it focuses on one problem only". Why the second question wasn't closed the same way if this is the reason? Commented Feb 19 at 17:11
  • 3
    Because close voters hadn't found it yet.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 19 at 17:12
  • @KevinB, not sure. Anyway, do you really think that if I just rename the question if would succeed? Commented Feb 19 at 17:12
  • No, that's not the only problem the question has, it's just one that will quickly attract people ready to close it for that reason. Titles, and the first paragraph of your question, are just very important to whether or not someone clicks on your post.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 19 at 17:13
  • 1
    In case of your question I'd say your best course would be to change it into a "how to" question where you describe what you want to do and forego adding those attempts and asking people to suggest the best option etc. Commented Feb 19 at 17:26
  • 1
    @DamirTenishev not really I had difficulty understanding the other question as well but after a bit of research I was able to figure out what it was asking. The difference is that it was quite simple to remove those extra questions due to the way they were stated. In the case of your question I don't feel the focus is really the problem rather it's the fact that you ask for "best way" which is often opinion based. Fixing that would require subject matter expertise which I don't feel equipped with. Also given it would be changing your question quite a bit it is best done by you. Commented Feb 19 at 17:39
  • 2
    In general, Meta questions that ask "why is poorly-received question X different from well-received question Y?" - with the implication that one suspects an uneven application of policy, and with the undisclosed information that the meta OP is also the author of question X - are a big red flag for me. Commented Feb 20 at 6:17
  • 3
    Truth be told I am not overly fond of the second question either, it is not going to be very useful to other people the way it is asked. It is more like a code review rather than stating a good understandable and repeatable problem definition. But the author is very clever posing it as a challenge. As one of the answers states... challenge accepted. Pretty effective tactic, really.
    – Gimby
    Commented Feb 20 at 9:25
  • 1
    A good blog post on why "which is faster?" questions are problematic. There aren't many things in programming that are "best and fastest" across the broad in every category. Programming is about choosing tradeoffs to suit a particular use case, not silver bullet, one-size-fits-all solutions. But since we don't know your use case, there's no way to say which is "best" for you, which is why "best" questions are generally off-topic.
    – ggorlen
    Commented Feb 20 at 17:06

1 Answer 1

12

The first question you link to asks for unspecified things, solicits opinions, and asks for multiple separate things. Each of these reasons is individually cause to close the question.

The second question you link to (at the time of me reading it) asks a very specific, objectively-answerable question: "can I do X, shown below, except without using/relying on Y or Z implementation details". Before the edit a couple of hours ago by Abdul, the question asked multiple separate things, at least one of which was opinion-based. If the question were still in that state when I saw it, it would be worthy of a downvote and a close vote, just like the first question.


Questions on Stack Overflow need to:

  • be about programming or tools used primarily by/for programmers
  • ask one question, not multiple
  • clearly specify the criterion that qualifies as a solution to the problem/question
  • be objectively answerable

Running afoul of any of these is cause for closure. A question that runs afoul of any of these things and is not closed is almost certainly open only because 3 users with the ability to cast close votes and enough knowledge to weigh in have not yet come across said question.

14
  • Well, let me ask from another side, then. In comments to my question @JaMiT says: Please consider How to Ask ("Introduce the problem before you post any code") and try relying less on your code to communicate what you are trying to do.. In case this is a violation, why the second question (still have the same formatting after many reviews from moderators after discussion here) is not down voted or closed? Why I am the target for moderation and that question is not? Why so different attitude that one question is edited and another one shot from the dark without any help to improve? Commented Feb 19 at 19:43
  • 4
    @DamirTenishev It's generally the author's responsibility to edit their posts to comply with the site rules. In this case, the second question had an objective, on-topic question included in the original revision, so it is easy for another user to edit out extraneous/off-topic questions. The first question you linked, however, did not; it requires an edit by the author to salvage.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 19 at 20:21
  • Sorry, you missed my point, that question still violates the aforementioned rule ("Introduce the problem before you post any code") and yet it still open and upvoted. I am not interested in any harm to this specific question, I took it just for a sake of example from tons of similar open and answered questions on SO. My question is, why when tons of questions violate rules here and there, this is missed by moderators and mine was taken as a victim? I have no issues to create new ones, I am just interested how this works. Commented Feb 19 at 20:44
  • You can't just take two samples and compare them 1:1, Clearly two different set of users with different sets of opinions visited one vs the other.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 19 at 20:46
  • 3
    @DamirTenishev I'm not sure what rule you're talking about. There's no site rule which states that you have to post text before code in a question; many questions do the opposite. You may be conflating a random user's advice with site rules here. The "How to ask" page suggests advice on making a good question, not on making a question on-topic. The two are related, but separate, matters; there are good off-topic and poor on-topic questions (generally, you indicate a question is good/bad by up/down voting. You indicate it's off-topic by close-voting.)
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 19 at 20:58
  • Please see the How do I ask a good question?, section "Introduce the problem before you post any code" with Don't just skip straight to the code! in bold. Commented Feb 19 at 21:01
  • 3
    @DamirTenishev Like my comment above said, that's advice for asking a good, well-received question. Not an on-topic one. Ideally questions are both "good" and "on-topic", but only "on-topic" is a requirement. The order of code vs prose is largely a matter of taste; it would be impractical to create a rule dictating the exact order of contents in posts here.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 19 at 21:03
  • I got the point, thank you. Can you please share a link to the rules which states that I mustn't ask more than one question in the question? Not a recommendation, but a rule? Commented Feb 19 at 21:05
  • 3
    @DamirTenishev Well, the 'needs focus' closure banner on questions already explains that rule, but sure: stackoverflow.com/help/closed-questions
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 19 at 21:07
  • @DamirTenishev If you're asking why two questions were treated differently, the most likely answer is that the questions were seen by different people. Not everyone has the same moderation opinions. Don't take it personally, you're not being singled out for different treatment. Commented Feb 19 at 21:09
  • Thank you for the link. Here is the key: "This question currently includes multiple questions in one. It should focus on one problem only.". It seems people who wrote this doesn't feel the difference between "problem" and "question"; or they do, but those who applied this rule, don't. My question has exactly one problem to solve supported by research and many questions which wouldn't lead to many answers. They are just constraints to show that I already considered this, they are not separate questions, they pave the way to the answer to the problem how to write this. Commented Feb 19 at 21:14
  • 4
    @DamirTenishev If all three of the interrogative statements ask the same thing, why bother writing it three times and create such confusion? Sounds like it would be simple for you to delete the other interrogative statements from the question, and make sure the one that remains does not run afoul of the other bullet points in my answer (currently all interrogative statements in your question run afoul of the objectivity requirement). At least, a lot simpler than coming to Meta and asking for a whole discussion on the merits of one question vs another.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 19 at 21:17
  • 3
    "This "give us details" and "be concise" from both sides drive me crazy here." - What you seem to miss is that asking a question on Stack Overflow is not primarily about getting a problem solved that motivated the question. (You can ask even if you don't need an answer.) It is about contributing to the library that we are building here, as described in the tour. So we are looking for enough details to clearly describe a problem that others may need to solve, and no more - a clear specification for how-to problems, and a MRE for understanding errors. Commented Feb 20 at 6:27
  • @KarlKnechtel, having different goals we move in the same direction, this is community is what about. SO has its own goals, users have their own. It is nice that it works "synergetically". BTW, what is "MRE"? Commented Feb 21 at 12:47

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .