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As we all know, since January 2024, Stack Overflow shows a banner warning against generative AI (which I perfectly support). The banner links to this page, which contains the AI policy text, explaining why the usage of generative AI tools to draft answers is forbidden (a policy I fully agree with).

However, when the policy text explains what is meant by "generative AI", it first says

a tool that writes a response automatically based on a prompt it is provided

but then it only mentions contemporary LLMs as an example. It leaves open if full-text translation services or grammar checkers are also meant. These are tools which I suspect many non-native English-speaking community members use on a regular basis. I think of services like DeepL or Google Translate, which — though they count as AI tools, making use of artificial neural networks — AFAIK work differently than LLMs like ChatCPT, Bard etc., and which are optimized for preserving the original meaning of the input they get. Still, those full-text translators "write a response automatically based on a prompt"; hence the current wording gives the impression such tools also fall into the category of "generative AI".

In April 2023, there was already this MSO question thread about the topic:

Are answers written using machine translation or grammar correction tools considered 'AI-generated' for purposes of the ban on AI-generated content?

The accepted answer claims that usage of such tools does not violate SO's AI policy (under some pretty obvious restrictions, of course, the most important one that the input given to the translator was written by the OP or some other human expert). Still, this is no way an official statement of Stack Exchange, just a community poll.

I think it is quite unfortunate that the formerly mentioned AI policy text now does not give any clue if such translation services are falling under the AI ban or not. I think the AI policy text should be more explicit on this, clearly saying whether meaning-preserving translators are also banned, or if they are allowed (under some common-sense restrictions, of course). I think the AI policy text does not have to become much longer for this; it could also link to the formerly mentioned MSO post from April 2023, if Stack Exchange agrees to the accepted answer (written by RyanM, one of the SO moderators), or maybe to an FAQ page with a different explanation.

From the reactions I got from a few commenters in between, I think we have a broad community consensus that pure translation services and grammar checkers should not be subject to the SO AI policy, as long as they don't start to "invent" new content which a user did not provide. Even those commenters here who write they dislike the usage of translation services say they don't want to forbid their usage completely.

Hence, I think have to rewrite my proposal a bit:

  • Please make the AI policy page (not to be confused with the banner) a little bit more explicit about what GenAI doesn't mean

  • There is currently only a section in the policy text which states some examples of systems which clearly count as banned GenAI. Please add another section with a title like "Which kind of AI usage am I allowed to make use of?", giving some examples of things which clearly do not count as GenAI in context of the policy (for example pure translation services, as long as they are used under the restrictions explained here).

  • Please add a link to an FAQ page which states the official position of Stack Exchange on this topic (for example, this page, thanks to @KevinB for mentioning it).

Don't get me wrong: I don't expect a 100% foolproof definition of what does and doesn't count as GenAI; that's not my intent. I am not proposing to make the text much longer — and if something really needs a long-winded explanation, it could be moved to another FAQ page. My intent is to make the text less single-edged, not only stating what's forbidden but also giving some examples of what is allowed.

Maybe it is possible to improve the AI policy further by a wording which does not focus so much on the specific tools themselves, but on the content, where it has to come from, what it has to look like, and how posters have to make sure it is correct and expresses their intent. If someone has an idea for this, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it.

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    I have yet to see an example where this is actually an issue that needs to be solved. The only other place where I can find similar "confusion" for lack of a better word, is on the announcement, from you...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 24 at 8:13
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    I don't see a need to be explicit about translation tools in the AI policy. I do see how one might consider "a tool that writes a response automatically based on a prompt it is provided" to include translation tools though. If you have better wording which would be more clear you should propose that. Commented Jan 24 at 8:16
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    @Cerbrus I know that but given there is a need to translate I'm keeping some leeway for people not that familiar with English. Commented Jan 24 at 8:20
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    I doubt people that unfamiliar with English would even try to read the rules...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 24 at 8:21
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    I have yet to find a single contribution, improved by a grammatical tool, to be even remotely close to anything ChatGPT will generate.In fact, after authoring hundreds of answers myself with those tools, as a user who only writes and speaks English seen these tools suggest improvements that would come close to anything even remotely close to what ChatGPT generates. Suspect this worry these tools might generate something that might be close the trash that these LLM like ChatGPT will generate isn’t based in reality. I have used these grammatical tools for a decade, to author hundred's of answer Commented Jan 24 at 10:49
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    @Gimby - Which is exactly might point. I have literally processed millions of words through those tools. The revisions they have suggested, have never once, been misidentified as a ChatGPT response. My comment contained a typo "would" instead of "wouldn't". I use these grammatical tools in every section of life, including, just the comments I submit (not including the comment that contained a typo). Commented Jan 24 at 14:22
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    @DocBrown - I think the AI policy is clear. Language Learning Models that can generate a response, based on set of parameters, is nowhere close to the input of grammatical tools or translation services. Translation services often will generate complete nonsense and not actually be grammatical correct in the other language. It's up to the creator of the contribution to make sure their contribution makes sense. Commented Jan 24 at 14:43
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    Yet I've never heard anybody refer to Google or Grammarly as "AI tool". I'd have expected that common sense reading of the term "AI tool" would not include a calculator. Since you insist that is also an "AI tool" based on the cherry-picked single sentence. How should it be defined, then? Additive and subtractive examples are still not clear. If we say "A and B but not C" then somebody would ask about D. And at some point trying to enumerate all possibilities becomes burdensome.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 24 at 16:09
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    @DocBrown - If you don't think it is ambiguous, then you think it is unambiguous, which means there are NOT multiple interpretations which I would agree with. Which then of course would confuse me since your question seems to suggest you think the policy is somewhat open to interpretation and should be clarified. Of course it might just be your question that is ambiguous Commented Jan 24 at 16:56
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    @DocBrown What could be done to make the policy more explicit? My reading of that is expressly what i've stated before; wording that states translations and grammar checking tools are fine. which is a blanket statement that isn't actually correct without more clarification that misses the point of the policy.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 24 at 17:32
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    This whole question reeks of the same problem as the definition of obscenity: corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/… Commented Jan 24 at 19:45
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    Your question asks to update the text to be more explicit about what's generative AI and what is not. The similarity to the request to clarify what is obscene and what is not should be obvious. Commented Jan 24 at 20:45
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    If you understand the comparison I was making, I think it is futile to debate the AI policy text. It will never be adequate no matter what changes you make to it. Instead we must trust in the wisdom of whoever is interpreting the rules - they'll know AI when they see it. Commented Jan 24 at 21:15
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    There is nothing that is "clearly allowed" that is guaranteed to not cross the line to not allowed tomorrow... other than not using tools at all, of course, given even Grammarly now has the ability to generate content for you.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 25 at 3:56

4 Answers 4

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Let's not make that policy too specific.

The more details you're adding, the more loopholes you're adding.

Besides, the policy clearly states: "Answers generated by artificial intelligence tools".
Translations aren't generated answers. They're translations.

Tools like Google Translate do not fall under "Generative AI"

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    We probably need a new word to talk about "AI" because lots of people seem to be confused over the policy that targets ChatGPT and similar LLM chatbots. A translation service, while probably using similar technologies in part, is not at all comparable to the chatbots the policy targets. Translations use even less "AI" than those chatbots. Trying to label DeepL or Google Translate or others as "generative AI" doesn't fit in many ways. IMO, the policy is clear. Yet what is needed is better term of art because users seem to be trying to apply the description of a tech to incompatible tech.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 24 at 10:36
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    Problem happens because more and more translation tools are literally using AI for translating which also rewrites the content and leaves distinct AI signature on the post. And then it can be harder to detect which post is genuinely written by user and "merely" translated and which are not. Not to mention that plenty of users whose posts are clearly generated by AI are using translation tools as excuse.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jan 24 at 15:38
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    @SecurityHound grammarly.com "Work with an AI writing partner that helps you find the words you need⁠—⁠to write that tricky email, to get your point across, to keep your work moving."
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jan 24 at 18:58
  • @Cerbrus: well, I thought I clearly distinguished between the banner text and the AI policy page in my question. But fwiw, I added a short statement to make it more clearer.
    – Doc Brown
    Commented Jan 25 at 8:27
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    Frankly, I find it absurd that someone can not tell the difference between generating text out of thin air, and a spell-checker / grammar checker / translator. You have yet to provide an example where that's actually been an issue, @DocBrown.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 25 at 8:29
  • You can perform translations using generative models, it actually depends if each tool (Google Translate, DeepL, etc) is actually implemented using a generative model or not. It is incorrect to claim that in general, translation is not a generative task. It can be performed with conditional generative models.
    – Dr. Snoopy
    Commented Jan 25 at 11:31
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Ideally... we don't want machine translations. Instead, we want users to post content that they themselves understand and can respond to. That's not to say machine translations are or should be banned, or that people aren't allowed to use grammar correcting tools, only that users are responsible for the results and are expected to be able to respond to further inquiries on the content they post.

I don't think it'd be particularly useful to dive into machine translations and grammar corrections within a policy that is instead focused on generating content... something the tool shouldn't be doing when you are translating or grammar checking your own content.

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    I think the policy could benefit from a better definition of what counts as "generated content", and what not.
    – Doc Brown
    Commented Jan 24 at 11:13
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    @DocBrown if the content was generated, it was generated.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 24 at 16:04
  • Explaining a term by itself is - not an explanation, which initially left me puzzled what you meant by the former statement. But in a comment under my question, you gave some examples, you wrote: "Translating content is translating content... not generating. Searching for content is searching for content... not generating. Spell-checking content is spell-checking content... not generating. " - which made it more clear to me what your POV is. ...
    – Doc Brown
    Commented Jan 25 at 9:57
  • ... I however, always believed the common usage of the term "Generative AI" also includes modern full text translators. Hence I asked a question on AI.Stackexchange on it. Maybe their community can clarify the terminology.
    – Doc Brown
    Commented Jan 25 at 9:57
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I don't think any sufficiently short distinction is practically useful.

The issue behind the AI policy is not with the purpose of the AI used but the results. Any sufficiently powerful translation tool can twist, extend or remove meaning; any sufficiently powerful generative tool can be used for translation as well. So any "translation services are okay" addendum is just asking for trouble. Any "these services are okay" example list is just asking for future trouble.
There is just no technical dividing line going between "translation" and "generation" that can be as succinctly defined as the current policy.

Really, people using a specific tool must know whether the output is "theirs" or "its". If someone cannot gauge whether the output of a "translation AI" is generated by the AI or true to their own words, that's a problem that won't be fixed by more words in the AI policy.

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    This. Full text translations have always been problematic, I mean Google Translate has existed long before people started to pretend that "AI" suddenly exists. There is English and there is English to describe a programming problem; before you know it the nuances of the programming problem are translated out of the text. If you need such a service because you don't know English very well, you can't know if what the tool produced is a good quality question or answer unless someone else can proof read and correct it.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jan 30 at 16:51
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I think it's not that necessary to get hung up on minute details or choice of words or what the secondary or tertiary meaning of a word could mean in some particular context

At the end of the day we should be judging the post rather than what anyone thinks the poster used to generate his content. Someone used a translation software that happens to use AI in its backend? Most people wouldn't know what any such software uses to produce its results anyway (and needing to know that isn't a requirement for posting here in the first place). The poster should be held liable for whatever he ends up posting, so that it makes sense and is appropriate for SO, but it shouldn't be our business to dictate him on what tools or software he needs to use. So changing the words in that policy just to exclude certain services from being banned may not be that helpful.

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    "but it shouldn't be our business to dictate him on what tools or software he needs to use" - well, that sounds quite contradictory to what the policy says today - it pretty much forbids certain tools.
    – Doc Brown
    Commented Jan 24 at 11:10
  • @DocBrown - Have specifics, one tool for years as existed, but only recently started claiming it was powered by AI. I have used that tool to generate likely millions of sentences over a decade, to improve my grammar, I can instantly identify a sentence generated by a real LLM. Commented Jan 24 at 11:47
  • @DocBrown exactly why the policy is flawed. Unless the tool itself actively harms SE (like something that would ddos the SE site for example), a tool that only generates or helps generate content should not be our concern. What is actually posted on the site should be the higher priority, and the poster should be held responsible for whatever is posted, good or bad
    – user13267
    Commented Jan 24 at 12:39
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    @user13267: that may lead us to a debate about the main direction of the policy itself, - which is something I wanted to avoid. I don't disagree with the policy in general, I only think it could be more clearer of what counts as "generative AI" in its context, and what not.
    – Doc Brown
    Commented Jan 24 at 14:36
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    "but it shouldn't be our business to dictate him on what tools or software he needs to use" If the tools are actively causing harm, then yes we can dictate which tools are allowed and which ones are forbidden. I am not going to rehash why GenAI is not allowed. When it comes to translation tools, nobody will be too strict if you used them to ask questions, even if the result sounds like AI and has been altered. If something is lost in the translation, you are doing it at your own peril.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jan 25 at 7:45
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    But when answering then if you are unable to write the answer on your own without help of any translation tool, then you probably shouldn't be answering in the first place. We can fix poor English and grammar if we have original text, but if you run that through translation tool, especially AI one, meaning can be lost. We want accurate answers. If your English is so poor that you need a tool, how can you verify the translation tool output. We don't want answers that will say "Translation service is not available".
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jan 25 at 7:48
  • What is "our" in this answer? Let's not make the mistake of pretending that we as power users of the site are involved in the process of setting standards and rules. We are not and today even less than 10 years ago. They do that. And they have done it. That's why were here, constantly obsessing over the policies around "AI" and tooling.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jan 30 at 16:54
  • @Gimby "our" is users of the site, which I assumed is what this post is about. One set of users should not have to make it their business what tools other set of users work with. I don't know what your "they" is though, you could clarify it if you want. "we as power users ... standards and rules." I've never assumed that and not the point of this answer anyway. The site isn't owned/hosted by some random people on the internet banding together
    – user13267
    Commented Jan 31 at 1:27

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