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TL;DR: 75% of what newcomers see when they follow a link to an SO question has nothing to do with the answer they came looking for. And I don't think that's right.


This morning I was looking, as most everybody in this site, for a solution to a programming problem I had — as I've been doing for years.

The only difference today was that, for some reason, I was logged out.

And I saw what newcomers see when they come to Stack Overflow for help:

Two left sidebar items, banner ad, sign up bottom banner, two right sidebar items

Seriously?

I'm counting:

  • three ads (the "SO for Teams" panel on the left counts as an ad, sorry).
  • A couple of sections which are kind of irrelevant for newcomers just looking for an answer, but still take a lot of space on the sides (way more than necessary — so much margin...)
  • A "sign-up options" banner on the bottom which seems completely redundant, as there are already "Log in" & "Sign up" buttons up there where users could see all the available options if they actually wanted to sign up.
  • ... and finally, the actual question, cramped into the barely ~25% of screen real state that remains. 35% if we include the title, which sits above the ad because why would we keep the title closest to the question, right?

I was honestly horrified by this. Maybe I'm just too used to the veteran user experience (where I have fewer / no ads when logged in, and Meta and side menu are genuinely relevant to me), but I'm really worried about the impression newcomers are getting from SO — a supposedly clean, no BS, just Questions & Answers site that nowadays looks like any other ad-ridden forum.

It hurts in a special way if we take into account the years of blaming the SO community for being unwelcoming of new users... Well, how is this landing page welcoming at all? I came here looking for answers and 50% of the page is just ads and another 20% is things that look completely irrelevant to me!

Is this the kind of experience that Stack Overflow wants for new users?


Just so this post doesn't look like the rant it is, here's some suggestions:

  • Remove bottom sign-up banner
  • Remove ads
  • Yeah, I knew that one wouldn't work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but at least...
  • Reposition ads so they take less screen real state
  • Reduce margin on the sides
  • ... and/or collapse side menu to the left, or move it into a drop-down in top bar
  • ... and/or remove Featured on Meta for unlogged users landing directly on a question page (keep it for logged-in users, otherwise show it only on Home page), or at least make it thinner or something.

EDIT: To all the comment(er)s telling me to use an ad blocker with custom rules: you're missing the point. I'm not the one seeing these ads, I have the privilege to disable them 🤷🏻‍♂️ But what about those coming to the site for the first time (usually from a Google search)? How can we expect them to see Stack Overflow as a good place to obtain answers to their questions, if the first page they see is so full of non-answer-related elements?

Surely there are ways to make the experience better? I made some honest suggestions (ok, except for the "remove ads" one -- that one was obviously a joke, Cerbrus, glad it made you laugh ;), but I'm sure SO designers can come up with better ways of displaying questions and answers more prominently while still displaying some ads here and there in an unobtrusive way. I'd say that's more important than changing some colors, tbh.

Also, I'm kind of baffled that almost all comments, along with the (currently) only answer, can be boiled down to:

"other sites look the same or worse".

First of all: wow. That's it? That's the goal now: to be the "less bad" option? And second, it's not even true! Who cares about YouTube or Quora? Coderanch of all places, with its ancient phpBB interface, devotes almost 50% screen space to the actual content:

Coderanch site

And I'm not even screenshooting Codidact, because they are not on the monetize phase (yet), but of course the questions get more space there as well.

So I don't really know what y'all mean by "that's how sites with ads look today". That's no excuse. Stack Overflow was created precisely because Q&A sites back then were centered more on ads than on actual content (among other reasons); it was never meant to look like the "average" ad-supported site :(

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    Honestly, I think the ad to content ratio is better than the average for modern ad-supported sites. Yes, it's still a lot of ads, but I'd rather have lots of ads for new users than another round of firings. And there are no autoplaying videos, popover ads or other deeply annoying kind of ads. Stack Exchange will have to make money somehow.
    – Erik A
    Nov 9 at 11:27
  • The fixed-width Q&A stripe is kind of by design. Sans the sign-up banner, this is actually how I am using SO and I really don't see a problem with it - I'm not paying SE inc to keep the lights on, so someone else has to and they may as well use the intentional non-Q&A space for that. Nov 9 at 11:33
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    That you label "Featured on Meta", which includes what probably is the most prominent link we have to the ChatGPT policy as "Irrelevant" is kinda sad
    – blackgreen Mod
    Nov 9 at 11:33
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    Given the number of questions posted in another language than English, the link to the localized versions of SO doesn't look very harmful. About the adds: At least they only advertise SO services. I always thought that there would be adds from other companies too.
    – BDL
    Nov 9 at 11:40
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    It's just the usual annoyance tactics to get you to do something which is optional. Compare it to Youtube which will unendingly harass you with double ads which you frequently can't skip and requests to try their premium option "for free". You can say no all you want, the next time you get that request is already scheduled. The more annoyance that can be thrown at you, the more enticing the alternative will start to sound. That is the internet world we live in now, Stack Overflow is a pretty mild example really.
    – Gimby
    Nov 9 at 12:14
  • Best thing you can do is to use an ad blocker and maybe add a few custom rules to also block internal ads like SO Teams. If you want to use the free space for actual content, then you could use a browser plugin like Stylus to overwrite the CSS to set your own "max-width" for the "content" container.
    – Tom
    Nov 9 at 13:47
  • @KevinB I ignored them because the search bar itself is useful, and a couple links in there don't really take away any usable space (my brain is already used to skipping that half-an-inch of vertical space, it seems).
    – walen
    Nov 9 at 16:52
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    @blackgreen The fact that the FoM panel is the only place where SO allows mods to feature important info, doesn't mean the panel itself is good. Especially now that it's used mainly for promoted articles (so, more ads). If SO wanted to, they could feature the ChatGPT ban warning as an announcement below the top bar, just like they do for surveys and other things. In any case, remember that I'm talking about the landing page when unlogged users come looking for an answer; both logged and unlogged users writing answers go through other pages where that warning would make more sense IMHO.
    – walen
    Nov 9 at 17:15
  • "To all the comment(er)s telling me to use an ad blocker with custom rules: you're missing the point." ... do we? It's 2023 and when there are still people without an ad-blocker, then it is their own fault. Web-designers have showed us that you can't rely on them when it comes to sensible ad placement (yes I exaggerate a little bit).
    – Tom
    Nov 9 at 17:36
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    IMO if you remove all of those freehand circles that you've put in the image it is much less noisy. Yes it has quite a lot of content but the look of the page makes it obvious what the main content is. Yes the left sidebar is kind of redundant but it contains some important links to navigate the site (Don't tell me they should go to the top bar, its quite filled already). The right side seems most suitable for ads, I don't think they are going to go away, filling it up with just ads won't look good so the featured, HMP, etc. actually are useful content there. Nov 9 at 17:46
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    Yes, they are piling more and more onto the page. For instance, the "Asked today. Modified today. Viewed 117 times" line, placed very prominently near the title, wasn't there until very late (more than 10 years after the launch). But it will probably never be removed. Nov 9 at 22:42

1 Answer 1

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Just so this post doesn't look like the rant it is, here's some suggestions:

Very well, let's have a look:

  • Remove bottom sign-up banner

That's a call to action that I would wager is responsible for a significant portion of users actually signing up. Removing it would probably be a detriment to the site.

  • Remove ads

Hahahahahahaha how do you think SO makes money? Sure, Teams, but removing ads would just be cutting a revenue stream for very little gain.

Users that are annoyed by ads, especially (generally more tech-savy) SO visitors, can install adblockers.

  • Reposition ads so they take less screen real state

Do you mean moving them below the fold? Because I see no other position to place them... That would significantly cut ad revenue.

  • Reduce margin on the sides
  • ... and/or collapse side menu to the left, or move it into a drop-down in top bar

Again, this would just remove the teams call to action. I'm guessing SO wouldn't be too keen on that. But that's easily fixed by just signing up/in, as that hides the left sidebar.

  • ... and/or remove Featured on Meta for unlogged users landing directly on a question page (keep it for logged-in users, otherwise show it only on Home page), or at least make it thinner or something.

No, "featured" has low enough visibility as it is, already. I don't see how you can make that narrower.

And I'm not even screenshooting Codidact, because they are not on the monetize phase (yet), but of course the questions get more space there as well.

Eh, no. On SO, questions get more real estate than on Codidact. Their "Featured" section is absolutely massive compared to that of SO.

Notice how you can barely see the first few lines of the question on CDD, due to that huge "welcome" banner.

enter image description here


I'm personally no fan of ads, which is why I've installed a blocker. Plenty of advertisers are actually turning around to be in favour of adblockers, as that removes impressions (that they pay for) from users that aren't gonna click the ads, anyway.
On top of that, SE is clearly labeling their ads in the page source, and doesn't try to work around adblockers.

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    At minimum... they could at least take teams/collectives/labs and turn it into a far more compact unit rather than having 3 "things" that only need a single link each taking up more space than links that serve the actual purpose that side menu is for. If your dropdown needs a scrollbar it is either housing too much content or poorly designed.
    – Kevin B
    Nov 9 at 15:27
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    With all due respect (which is a lot of respect, in your case): 1. "Install adblockers" Jeez, ofc I have adblockers installed. But SO's self-ads are not recognized as ads by default, you have to add custom rules for that. Now tell me... How the heck is a newcomer supposed to know of these self-ads in advance? 2. "Just log in" Once again, I'm talking about newcomers. People without an account. They cannot log in.
    – walen
    Nov 9 at 17:38
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    3. "'Featured' has to stay" 'Featured on Meta' content these days is either promoted articles (more ads), policy announcements that should be shown below the top bar anyways (a la Survey announcement), or community-related news completely irrelevant for someone who is not part of the community yet -- because they are newcomers. 4. "WDYM by reposition?" Either move them closer together, or fuse them as @KevinB suggested, or make them a different shape that fits better in some other part, or just make them smaller... Whatever is needed to have the actual Q&A be at least 50% of the view.
    – walen
    Nov 9 at 17:42
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    @walen Except for the Teams part on the left sidebar, I pretty much see no ads when using an adblocker, you might want to change the one you use. Nov 9 at 17:51
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    I'm getting the impression that you and the rest of people reading this think I'm complaining about ads. That's the only reason I can find for your solution being "install an adblocker, or log in". But you're completely missing the point: what I'm trying to get at, is that 75% of what newcomers see when they follow a link to an SO question has NOTHING to do with the answer they came looking for. And I don't think that's right. (PS: I just saw there's a new comment, which will appear above this one, but which I haven't read yet -- this is just a continuation of my other comments above.)
    – walen
    Nov 9 at 17:57
  • @AbdulAzizBarkat I use uBlock. It seems like at some point I decided to whitelist stackoverflow.com because I thought "yeah, I'm using their site every single day, they deserve some ad revenue from me and the ads here are actually interesting anyways" -- those times are long forgotten (the ones when I thought the ads were relevant, I mean.) In any case, that's still not the point.
    – walen
    Nov 9 at 18:00
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    @walen for newcomers, SO is hardly the first, and certainly not the most egregious website using ads... If someone is really annoyed with ads, chances are they'll already have a blocker installed.
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 9 at 18:49

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