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This week, we are expanding the Discussions experiment to the R Language, CI/CD, and PHP Collectives. Moving beyond the initial launch in the NLP Collective allows for more participation across the different areas of practice. With a link to a Discussions home page (featuring Discussions in all collectives) soon being added to the left navigation, and through other discovery paths we’ll be exploring, we expect to see more participation in Discussions as time goes on.

More activity and content will bring added focus to the curation processes for this new type of content. The purpose of this post is to open up conversation about the norms and needs around curation, flagging, and content organization.

A fresh start with Discussions flags

Discussions is a new content type. When building out the initial experiment, we didn’t want to assume that the same flagging reasons and systems from Q&A should be applied. From both a social and technical perspective, there were strong reasons to take a fresh approach with flags and be guided by what we see.

The Q&A moderation dashboard and systems are complex; flags and their resolutions become part of user history, and can affect things down the road for those users. While utilizing the same conventions and tooling might have had advantages, we did not want to make users reluctant (or overzealous) to flag things in Discussions due to uncertainty about how those Q&A flag types apply to this new space. Making changes to the current systems (and the code that powers them) for Discussions might also have unintended effects on Q&A processes, and we did not want to disrupt those moderation flows or make life harder for the Stack Overflow moderation team.

Help us determine the right flag types

The “green field” approach and current bare-bones tooling have caused some concern, which is understandable. So let’s dive into some of the open questions and see what parameters and options we can define together. This ongoing conversation is concurrent with what we’ll observe as Discussions usage increases, and we’ll apply those learnings and the conversations here toward a solution that can meet community needs and help maintain content quality. The Discussions guidelines can also evolve accordingly.

Let’s imagine the modal that might appear when someone decides to flag a Discussions post. What flag reasons should be displayed as options for the flagging user to choose from? For each item below, I’ll pose some open questions (in bold) which are the things I hope we can discuss further in answers and comments.

Some options are clear-cut. We should have the following flags:

  • Spam

  • Rude/abusive behavior (largely inclusive of most Code of Conduct violations)

  • A free-form text field, to provide insight when there’s not a clear predefined reason. This can also provide a path for the clear-cut but possibly more rare scenarios like “no longer necessary, the parent reply is deleted” and help us determine if those are common needs. Proposed label: “Something else” (as seen on the comment flag modal)

Some other possible options for flag reasons may not be as clear-cut. Let’s talk about other scenarios that we’ve seen mentioned in user feedback already. As we look at these, let’s also remember that feedback about a Discussions post can also be provided in replies. Discussions is a conversation space, and it’s okay to let the author know how the post might be improved. That visible interaction may help others, in addition to the author, understand more about what makes a post high-quality.

  • This does not belong here – This could apply to both blatantly off-topic content as well as relevant posts that might be better suited for another location (like Meta, or another Stack Exchange site).

    • What are some potential labels or “reasons” that would cover these scenarios? Or would this scenario be better handled with the free-form text field? This is also an area where we can explore automated solutions or migrations in the future.
  • Duplicates – It’s interesting to consider how this scenario might differ from Q&A. Some Discussions posts may feel similar to older, existing ones, but the ensuing conversation on each post can be very different depending on the wording of the post, recent changes in the area of practice, and the specific users that end up participating. Both the older and newer posts can have standalone value even if they are similar in some ways. Applying the same guidelines and processes that govern duplicates for Q&A may not be the best approach. This may be an area where conventions coalesce organically over time, or perhaps different collectives might take varying approaches to the issue based on the specific subject matter. Future additions such as sorting/filtering and search can also be helpful as the number of posts grows over time.

    • Should “duplicate content” be a pre-set flag reason, or does it make more sense for a potential flagging user to bring that up in a reply instead?

    • Does the free-form text field option cover things well enough here, allowing the flagging user to specify what is being duplicated?

What other reason options would you like to see appear on a flag modal for Discussions? As I said before, this will be an ongoing conversation and open for productive contributions for a long while.

Mockup of a potential Discussions flag modal, showing radio button options for "spam", "rude or abusive", and "something else" Mockup of a potential Discussions flag modal

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    What is the point in curating this?
    – Dharman Mod
    Sep 12 at 16:30
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    I kept flagging one of the discussions in the NLP collective, as it was off-topic, and even explained so in multiple comments, one of which were to your reply, @Berthold. Yet my flags just kept getting declined, it seems like. Sep 12 at 16:57
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    @AndreasismovingtoCodidact Yes, that post was itself an experiment in what is and isn't off topic for Discussions, kind of in a gray area. Your flags (and reply) were definitely registered as feedback. This does bring up a sub-topic of this post, as well -- feedback for the flagging user. The Q&A flag system provides for this to some degree. Aside from some kind of confirmation that the flag was seen/processed, would you have felt better knowing more about why it was declined? Would you have re-flagged it regardless?
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Sep 12 at 17:04
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    Great, so this new shiny feature that supports selling a paid product gets promptly called out in the UI, ignoring chat yet again, despite one being a proven long-term useful feature and the other being... not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    – Kevin B
    Sep 12 at 17:04
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    @Berthold I was mostly just baffled you didn't just reuse the Q/A system, with proper flags, with a new entry in the flags list on the profile. But then again, the already existing flag system has some drawbacks that I'm sure you can find feedback for on Meta already. It's not so much about what I feel, but the consequences of that flag. I have seen some of the arguments made for declining such a flag, and I don't think they hold up. But seeing my flags get declined for reasons I disagree with? Well, that's obviously not motivational. Regardless, I'm not going to participate in these Sep 12 at 17:14
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    discussions. My participation was as much an experiment, as the Discussions feature was, well except that my experiment had an expiry date. So, as I don't actually care for this feature; no, I wouldn't continue flagging. I did it as an experiment, not because I am invested in the feature, and because I genuinely care about it. I have given up this platform, but was curious to see what this was. Again, not because I believe in the purpose, but because it was fun to play with. That fun has ceased. Sep 12 at 17:20
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    This does not belong here. You should seriously consider that option. If you are really invested in this, it makes sense to add at least 3 options: (1) Belongs to Meta (2) Belongs to the main Q&A site (3) Off-topic for SO altogether - Meta, Main Q&A, or Discussions. I would not talk about other sites, since it is not fair to drop something from the experimental features of SO on their lap. Duplicate? I don't think there's much harm in including that, but how useful it'll be? Gotta wait and see if Discussions expand enough so we run into dupes. Not necessary for now I guess. Cont'd ...
    – M--
    Sep 12 at 18:19
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    ... But all of this comes to down to the questions asked by multiple users: Who's going to curate this? And What's the expected outcome of said curation? p.s. That said, I appreciate you bringing this up for "discussion".
    – M--
    Sep 12 at 18:30
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    The flagging UX for discussions is... pretty bad. Confirmation upon clicking but no follow-up choices to choose why we want to flag something? No ability to retract? The flag doesn't even show up in my profile flag page of pending/cast flags.
    – TylerH
    Sep 12 at 19:23
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    When you mention duplicates, do you only mean duplicates within discussions or also duplicates with existing Q&A? Anyway, I too feel that curation should be rather on the light side. Let it flow. Just make sure people are nice to each other. Discussions are basically just a bit more focused chats. I would not expect to find reliable information in a discussion (although it may be in there). Sep 12 at 19:37
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution what is higher quality in the realm of discussions? Certainly it's not being focused and specific. I don't wanna discuss whether that's good or bad, but one needs to define higher quality (not a term I'd use, but just quoting you) to get the desired results. A lot of people mow their lawns, some just want it short, some want stripes, waves, etc.
    – M--
    Sep 12 at 19:51
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution Sand is the new pearl. More sand = more engagement = more activity. Doesn't have to be shiny. Sep 12 at 19:56
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution I am after specifics. General phrases like "insightfulness" or "quality" do not translate into any measurable curation guidelines.
    – M--
    Sep 12 at 21:34
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    Imo this question is way too broad. What should we moderate (what's allowed and disallowed, e.g. the duplicate content example), who will moderate what, and how will we design the flag dialogs are 3 broad discussions. Answering the last without having consensus/a decision on the first two doesn't make sense.
    – Erik A
    Sep 13 at 8:58
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    I would personally like to see "spam" renamed to "spam or hidden advertising" though, or a variation thereof. The Stack Overflow interpretation is just so much more intricate than what most of the internet thinks is spam.
    – Gimby
    Sep 13 at 14:22

3 Answers 3

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Moderating this is a paradox.

We have been trained and disciplined for over a decade to regard conversational content as unceremoniously off-topic, and this helps keep our heads on straight and keeps the cats well-herded.

By its very nature, moderating discussions will require several orders of magnitude more context and investigation into what a discussion was really getting at, and will require even more investment from the volunteers to be able to identify what's OK and what's not OK.

I don't think you can set your veteran curators on content like this which should immediately evoke Gorilla vs Shark-level visceral reactions.

...but what if it's OK? How do we know it's OK? We haven't spent any time in that collective to know intuitively, and if we had something automated keeping an eye out for things like this (a-la Charcoal), all of those heuristics built up on the rock-solid foundation that chit-chat was not what we optimized means we have to rebuild those heuristics. From scratch.

I think the right way to declare how these are meant to be moderated is to reinforce what purpose they serve, and the kinds of content that they're expected to have. Without that guardrail, we're nowhere near close to even getting started on doing this right.

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    I mean, this is only true, if there is any real definition of "value" that these discussions must abide by. By it's very nature, discussions provides no real "value" outside giving users a place to ask for free volunteer research that produces answers that begin to lose their usefulness the moment they're posted. What value is there in moderating discussions for "value", if there is no long-term value to be had there?
    – Kevin B
    Sep 12 at 16:32
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    @KevinB: You don't need to have "value" if someone's posting links to spam or CSAM, you need to take action. That's what moderation is about. Curation on the other hand determines the overall value of the thing that's posted, and that's what the arrows should do.
    – Makoto
    Sep 12 at 17:26
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    With that in mind, maybe the only flags that belong on discussions are the most obvious, i.e. the Spam, R/A, and Mod flags. That way, "on-topicness"/ scope isn't even on the table, but CoC violations can still be handled.
    – zcoop98
    Sep 12 at 17:28
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    @zcoop98: Fair, but now we get into the second half of the point I was making earlier - who's gonna do all of this? Right now the volunteer curators are so geared up in one context that asking them to shift to this new context is going to go about as quickly as molasses in July in Antarctica. To complicate things, the community is pretty good at automating stuff like this, and it feels like there's this...expectation...that the same thing is done here for this kind of content. I don't think it'll translate well.
    – Makoto
    Sep 12 at 17:32
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    The question 'who's gonna do all of this?' is great. But the main point is not that volunteers have enough work with curating Q&A or that they are accustomed to different curation criteria. It's why should they care about discussions being curated? Do they need them, do they bring any value to them? Sep 13 at 7:39
  • @TadeuszKopecforUkraine given the community has no ability to curate it, it won't be.
    – Kevin B
    Sep 15 at 14:56
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Blatantly off topic could be useful for... say, someone asking a question about jQuery in the R discussion, but given the nature of discussions... anything loosely related to R would be on topic there, even if it would be better posted as a typical Q&A or otherwise would be way off topic, such as what to study to become an R developer.

Discussions by its very nature produces content that is unlikely to be useful long-term... that's why these topics aren't allowed in the general Q&A area to begin with. I don't see much reason to be concerned with curating it at all outside of dealing with CoC violations given it's not a tool for producing long-term useful content. Why even have votes? They certainly don't indicate usefulness in this case.

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    "They certainly don't indicate usefulness in this case." And they don't influence the sort order. Higher scored discussion contributions aren't shown on top but strictly within the timeline. The votes really seem useless. Discussions look a bit like Reddit, but not as good. Sep 12 at 19:33
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    If anything, id' prefer to see the votes removed and replaced with stars and/or reactions. There's enough confusion about what voting is for without discussions using them as a popularity contest while mislabeling them as useful/not useful.
    – Kevin B
    Sep 12 at 19:34
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You already wrote guidelines... Why not just make flags for those guidelines?

  • Programming-specific questions that belong in Stack Overflow Q&A
  • Discussions about the Stack Overflow experience broadly
  • Sharing or requesting information about specific courses/bootcamps/certifications without substantive discussion
  • Career advice or posts about open roles
  • Posts focused solely on networking or professionally connecting with others
  • Event announcements
  • Reviews of what it's like to work at relevant companies or for specific people in the field

Either make a flag reason for each, or group some related ones together, or just make a single flag reason that points toward those guidelines.


On the point of closing duplicates, ... I'm glad you brought it up, but the only reaction that thinking about this brings up in my mind is a milder form of despair. By all means, try it. If duplicates are left untouched, then you'll get something like reddit, where things get re-hashed endlessly (info will end up more scattered and harder to find), and they even go as far as enabling auto-archiving things after a period of time (forcing re-hashing). To be clear, I'm not a great fan of what I think will be likely outcome if duplicates are closed either. Stack Overflow was at least partially created to solve the problem of having to slog long threads of discussion / pages of documentation, and having to piece things together, and forget irrelevant info to finally get something of value (not that duplication closure would cause that, but it- as another evil- might help make it worse).

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