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Three high-rep ('trusted') users decided to close and delete this question within about 20 minutes of it being asked. For those users without the required 10k reputation to see it, here are some screen-shots showing it:

enter image description here

And here are the comments:

enter image description here

Now, I can understand why it was closed (i.e., lacking a reproducible sample), though I don't necessarily agree with that closure – but that's not my main concern, here.

Why did anyone – let alone three established and trusted users – feel the need to delete it so quickly? In my experience/opinion, such rapid deletions should be reserved for posts that are utterly unsalvageable, dangerous, or otherwise 'offensive' (though not necessarily sufficiently so for a red flag).

Deleting this question makes it, effectively, impossible for the OP to edit it to address the reason(s) for closure, and thus submit it for review to be reopened; it also makes it invisible to other users with > 3k but < 10k rep, who might otherwise want to vote to reopen it; if the latter is/was the actual intent of the deletion, then it is a case of blatant abuse of the delete privilege.

On the question itself: It may not be a stunningly good one but, in my opinion, it has the potential to be answerable and even useful. The asker has explained that they cannot reproduce the issue (caused when using a recognized, third-party library) with their 'mimic' version of the class in question, so one would expect anyone who wanted to investigate the problem to have access to that 3rd-party library.

Would any of the three delete-voters care to explain why they felt their action was necessary, or even justified? I also welcome comments and opinions about this issue from other users. Maybe I've missed something significant, here, or is this a case of high-rep users getting 'carried away' with their powerful, vote-to-delete privilege?


Note: The question, originally, even included the relevant tag () for that library – but that was removed by one of the close/delete voters. I don't know why.


This question was closed as a duplicate of Question deleted in 15 minutes, was it appropriate? However, I disagree with this closure, for several reasons:

  1. Although the "specific-question" aspects of this post have been addressed (the referred-to question has been undeleted and reopened), the more general concerns about such rapid deletions are still pertinent; further, I believe that this question is better suited as a place for discussing these issues than the suggested duplicate is.
  2. That Meta question has no link to the actual (main site) question, so it is is difficult to follow the progress thereof (presumably, it has been 'eaten' by the Roomba).
  3. In that case, the OP appears to have completely abandoned the question, and no effort appears to have been made to improve it. This is very different from the question referred to here, where the OP has fully engaged with the curators and has edited their question accordingly.
  4. Because of the points made in (1) and (3), I think this post more eloquently 'challenges' such rapid deletions. Thus, if anything, this question should be kept open and the other (maybe) closed against it.

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  • 31
    Also worth noting that the question would have been automatically deleted anyway if it wasn't fixed and reopened. Thus there is even less of a reason to delete it now as opposed to giving it a few days and having the Roomba take care of it.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 6:47
  • 11
    This is how the C++ tag normally works, I believe. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 7:40
  • 8
    @HolyBlackCat Not in my experience. This behaviour is not (acceptably) normal, nor does it work. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 7:44
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    @HolyBlackCat To the extent that this is true, it would probably be good if it did not work like that, though
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 7:45
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    I think there are a few users (in C++ and other tags) who deliberately use their delete vote(s) to prevent closed questions being reopened. In fact, there was a stage when the "Reopen Votes" queue was known informally as the "Delete Vote" queue. This is not how things are supposed to work. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 7:53
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    If a question is closed as "Needs debugging details," then it must be left undeleted sufficiently long for the OP to address that issue. If they fail to do so, then further action may be taken ... Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 7:56
  • 13
    Meanwhile, I see several high reputation users polluting the C++ tag with answers to questions that should be closed for various reasons. If deletion is a means of combating that behaviour, it’s better to monitor questions for it, and take other kinds of actions against this. Anyway. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 8:37
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    Well, even experienced curators make mistakes sometimes. Sorry. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 9:19
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    The questionee has confirmed that they're unable to add a minimal reproducible example, to the question. As such, this question is unanswerable and, indeed, should be closed and deleted. It is unlikely to be of any use, or value. That's the harsh reality. The C++ tag is very sensitive to question quality. I can't speak for the experienced users that originally closed this question, but I'm pretty sure they accurately assessed that this question cannot be fixed, and voted accordingly. I agree. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 11:21
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    @SamVarshavchik the difference is abuse of moderator privileges, yes
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 11:26
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    @SamVarshavchik No, that's just the requirement. I want the guidance that says that should be done 20 minutes after posting a question and the question is not so bad it has to be removed immediately and that the usual chance for reopening should be skipped. Everybody can leave an answer, that's part of the system, but we have guidelines when are answers not an answers. That is the sort of thing I'm after.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 12:02
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    There is (and never was) anything about this question that would warrant a moderator flag, so why they rush to delete it? Also, note that I parenthesised the "downvote" part of my opening paragraph, because, like @dan1st said, I can't know that the downvoters and close/delete voters overlapped. However, I strongly suspect that the delete voters cast downvotes to get the post to the -3 score required for quick deletion. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 12:09
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    In summary, @gnat, delete votes on questions such as this should not be used to somehow hinder/prevent other users (with reopen rights) from disagreeing with the close reason(s). Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 13:20
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    @Sam I have huge respect for your contributions (answers, comments and curation) in the C++ tag and, further, I think your "UB" diagnosis (comment on the main-site question itself) may well prove to be accurate. However, I will respectfully disagree with you here: It may be that some other user of the VTS library has encountered a similar problem, and has found a fix or workaround. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 14:42
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    What the "rules" allow and what is acceptable use of curation tools aren't necessarily on the same hymn sheet. Those "rules" allow three users to close a question with the reason, "Because chickens only have 5 legs." Doesn't mean it's acceptable for anyone to do so, though. Commented Aug 27, 2023 at 16:07

1 Answer 1

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If that is not an MRE I don't know what is. The presence of an external SDK is not grounds for invalidating an MRE. Are you going to force users to include all relevant sections of the Android SDK when they post Android code? Not likely.

I also give it points for investigating some actual bizarre behavior, rather than just a "gimme teh code" question. This should never have been closed.

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    Also, interesting to note the (probable) Meta-effect, here, working in a net positive way. The Q has accrued 16 upvotes since I raised this issue, here (along with a few extra downvotes, though). Meta.SO isn't necessarily as "toxic" as some would have us believe. (Harsh - maybe - but that's kinda its raison d'être.) Commented Aug 28, 2023 at 16:57
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    Oh cripes. I just read the comments under the question more closely. Seems like the error the OP is likely running into directly has to do with how the SDK was built/linked. And OP has not included how they built that library. Well, this is why its worth really reading carefully. I'll leave this up, but I think I was wrong here.
    – code11
    Commented Aug 28, 2023 at 17:21
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    I think the OP has given info on what version of the SDK is being used and (to an extent) how it was built. They certainly addressed the comment from Hans (or, at least, tried to). As for the 32/64 bit mix-up: That would almost certainly cause a linker error with the MSVC build tools. Commented Aug 28, 2023 at 17:35
  • @AdrianMole It's a C++ question. Meta effect is always positive for C, C++, Haskell, Rust, etc. questions.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 28, 2023 at 22:17
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    This, plus - even if a question is missing an MRE, but is part-way there, or seems otherwise-legit and has just been asked by a newbie - I prefer to comment about how to improve the question, saying that if they don't do that, it might get closed and/or downvoted.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 22:13
  • @einpoklum i agree, but typically don't include a warning... as that can result in the user feeling like their question is being held hostage. with or without the warning, the consequences are the same.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 22:16
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    @KevinB: It's true that the advice may sound like "I'll make you an offer you can't refuse", but - (1.) they know the commenter is not the person deciding the fate of their question and (2.) better to be held hostage than to just be shot...
    – einpoklum
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 22:19
  • @einpoklum Re "I prefer to comment about how to improve the question", well said! I see that an obnoxious comment ("...Why do you think we will be able to?...") in the OP's screen shot of comments has thankfully been removed, but posting condescending, rhetorical questions in comments remains a problem on SO. High rep users doing that, who have absolutely no interest in helping the user or answering the question, should be ashamed. And they drive new SO users away - whatever happened to "be nice"?
    – skomisa
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 0:12
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    @AdrianMole Upvoting can still happen for all the wrong reasons. The meta effect is often described as an acceleration of normal voting activity due to the spotlight, but normal voting activity does not have a meta post acting as a guiding force and a funnel to get a pretty smallish and unchanging group of people to descend upon it so that is not a wholly honest description.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 7:53
  • @skomisa: TBH, I would much rather get a snide comment, but which actually indicates what I can do to get an answer, than a silent downvote, which is "polite" and CoC-compliant but doesn't help me do better. Although I suppose that might not be the universal preference.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 8:40
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    @einpoklum It's good that you have a thick skin, but new posters may not. I don't know how much harm is done by rude and condescending comments (that's impossible to quantify), but it surely deters some users from posting on SO to some extent. And apart from that, it's ugly, unproductive and unprofessional.
    – skomisa
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 6:00
  • @skomisa: Well, I want to challenge that claim, or rather - challenge the claim that it's "ugly, unproductive and unprofessional" relative to a silent downvote. Let me start with ugliness: Being downvoted is somewhat hurtful, especially to new users, for whom it is an effort to manage to form, phrase and publish a question; being criticized in a condescending way is also somewhat hurtful. But I find that the effect of just hurting via a downvote without giving cause is much uglier than than the condescension. The condescending critic cares enough to take the time to engage with you /...
    – einpoklum
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 10:14
  • ... rather than perform a hit-and-run. Regarding productiveness - here I believe it is obvious that the condescending comment about what's wrong with one's question is more productive than just the downvote. Finally, regarding professionalism - I claim that downvotes without comments are about as unprofessional as condescending/abusive comments. So in the overall balance, the hurtful but also actionable comment is better, IMO, than the silent downvote.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 10:20
  • @einpoklum I'm afraid that is just the problem of people taking downvotes too damn personally. Rejection is a standard occurrence in many areas of society, yet downvotes are somehow different? It also doesn't make a great argument for why the voters should expose themselves to abuse by commenting every time they downvote. Anyways, this is a digression. Let's take it elsewhere.
    – E_net4
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 12:04

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