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Today, two new collectives are launching on Stack Overflow. As with the previous two that were launched in March these will be community-led and community-driven. 

Check out the new collectives here, focused on:

  • PHP, the open source scripting language

  • NLP (natural language processing)

To find out more about how you can be involved and to participate in some initial conversations about the new collectives, please visit the dedicated Meta post for each here:

The remainder of this post describes the general approach we are taking to the launch of these two new collectives. Portions of the post below may be duplicated in the collectives-specific posts, to ensure consistent understanding.

Our vision for community-driven collectives

A collective is a space to help a subcommunity form, grow, and thrive in the ways that make the most sense for the community members. The collective is a platform, a toolbox; users who are well-versed in the area of practice are best suited to determine how to leverage these for the benefit of the community and to identify the areas that most need further development. Members can define how various elements and features of the collective can be best used to meet current and future needs of the community on Stack Overflow and the broader network.

The Recognized Member role

Recognized Member (or “RM”) is a user role specific to Collectives that has additional abilities, most notably to designate specific answers as “recommended” by the collective and to oversee the review and publication of articles. The collective’s Admins and Recognized Members can communicate via a private Discussions feature within the collective. The RM role is intended for those who would be considered subject matter experts in the collective’s topic, or perhaps in some specific area within the topic. We generally see the RM group as community leaders within their collective, but it’s up to each community to decide how the role operates in that regard.

Rather than select an initial set of Recognized Members before the launch, like we did for the first collectives, we’ll take a more open approach and let organic interest lead the way this time around. For now, the Recognized Member role in these new collectives will be open to any user with a gold or silver badge in one of the collective’s tags, and who has not been suspended in the past 12 months. Anyone who qualifies can express their interest on the dedicated Meta post for the new collective (linked above). However, the Recognized Member role is not required to be part of helping define how the collective operates.

We will still reach out to individual users who seem like ideal collaborators, but will direct them to the corresponding collective’s Meta post for details and public questions. Anyone is welcome to inquire about the RM role or ask questions privately via the contact form if they feel more comfortable that way.

Collectives continues to evolve

The coming months will see some new features added to Collectives. One that we’ll talk more about soon is Collections, which will allow members to collaborate by grouping existing content (questions, answers, and articles) together around a specific theme or purpose. We’ll share more details about that soon.

We remain committed to the concept of exploring subcommunities on Stack Overflow in the form of Collectives, and the product itself is still evolving. Collectives will continue to be an area used to experiment with new forms of interaction and contribution. We recognize that there are still rough edges and aspects that need refinement. The visual labels displayed on Recognized Members’ answers is one example of an area where we’ve received feedback which is being evaluated.

We are also very open to ideas about what topic areas might benefit from this additional structure. If you have suggestions for collectives that could be launched in the future, feel free to provide details.

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    community lead, community driven, from a private teams instance of appointed high quantity answerers?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 19:30
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    @Berthold Did you read the internal feedback (mod-only link) advising against the NLP collective? Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 19:53
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    @Zoeisonstrike Absolutely, and I both gave a response there and brought up the core of it in the NLP-specific post, namely the risk of the collective's existence doing more to encourage off-topic questions. We'd like that to be part of the conversation as we observe what happens in practice.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 19:58
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    @Berthold *self-appointed? what am i missing?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 20:56
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    @KevinB What we're hoping to make clear is that community-led and community-driven means that the collective is here to help facilitate the good collaborative work that people are already doing, and trying to do, and define what subcommunity means for Stack Overflow. The Teams instance was largely for pre-launch work and conversation for CI/CD and R. It's not ideal for many reasons and not part of the picture with these two launching now. And as it says above, the Recognized Member role is not required to be part of helping define how the collective operates.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 22:25
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    voting on these announcements seems to be quite heavily influenced by reciprocity, "Stack Exchange team shrinks efforts on serving the needs of site core group (who are, not coincidentally, also most active at meta). And you can't realistically expect this to go unnoticed. Maybe people just feel the negligence and behave accordingly..." Consider telling your boss to tell their boss that they may experience difficulties communicating their initiatives via meta until more pressing current issue is resolved
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 23:31
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    @gnat-onstrike- i'm not so sure on that, collective announcements in general have been negative long before current issues.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 1:58
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    What's the grand strategy here? "Some random programming languages and subjects have collectives now" doesn't seem very productive, what's the purpose behind this and should we expect all major programming languages to become collectives and have these redundant tag things?
    – Erik A
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 10:41
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    @BenReiniger Collectives as a whole doesn't make any changes to the asker experience. We still work to improve that on a sitewide level with projects like Staging Ground. Collectives, in establishing a more defined subcommunity space for a group of related tags, can help explore the question of how might we improve the asker experience for these tags?, since some pitfalls of asking and formatting can vary by subject area. Projects like tag wiki improvement or perhaps tag warnings are options, but other ideas can be explored.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 14:46
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    Collectives are associated with blatant plagiarism (wholesale copying of entire articles/blog posts). Has this been resolved? Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 16:05
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    @PeterMortensen Kevin's response to your comment is correct, per the guidelines; reposting your own content is permitted with a (self-)attribution link encouraged.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 15:40
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    A reminder that substantive responses are much easier to keep track of when posted as answers rather than comments. Conversations in comments are hard to follow, so keeping the discussions separated is useful. It's an announcement; the answers just need to be responsive, not actually answering a question.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 1:09
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    It's time to accept it: collectives are a failure and need to go away.
    – Alejandro
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 14:49
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    Agreed. Collectives were new and shiny... and then... meh. I still don't really understand their existence alongside Stackoverflow. @KevinB nails it with his comment in his answer "Collectives is a solution looking for a problem to solve.".
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Jul 19, 2023 at 19:47
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    I do think there's some value in some of the features that exist within collectives itself. For example, improving the tag page with new features that support some community-based curation efforts, possibly locked behind how active the tag is. Links from there to review queues pre-filtered to that tag, a curated list of question filters from the community related to that tag, etc
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 19, 2023 at 20:06

1 Answer 1

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What tools, features, what platform, does collectives provide that will assist in the management of these communities?

The private teams instances has been replaced with "Private Discussions", at least there's no requirement to work with Stack Overflow for Teams there so maybe members will be more willing to use it?

Articles thus far, outside of a handful of edge cases, have gone mostly unread.

Bulletins I haven't really paid much attention to so no comment?

The collective page itself is fairly full of information, designed around gamifying user interaction. I don't see anything here that directly promotes community driven collaborative work, rather, it gamifies enthusiastic users around one tag area... potentially at the detriment of others.

Where is the collaboration? Where would the community-led, community-driven, work that this is supposed to promote be discussed/planned/executed? How is MSO not the best place for that? How does the collective existing help facilitate that?


Why do features the community can benefit from need to be locked behind collectives?

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    Meta, as a venue for talking about Stack Overflow, is probably the right place for a lot of that. But Meta is also not a place where every active Stack Overflow user goes. Reasons for that vary widely, but one reason is the same issue that the Team suffered from — it’s just not on the active radar. People go to Stack Overflow every day, so that’s where we need to meet them if we want to engage them.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 0:12
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    The collective can be a venue to help people see that there’s a community around the tags in the first place, beyond just the names that sorta-kinda seem familiar from Q&A. Yes, portions of that community are active on Meta and talk about those tags and that content, but again there’s the broader awareness/visibility issue.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 0:12
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    Bulletins can direct people to Meta posts to discuss specific content efforts and projects, or if those things are straightforward enough, just inform about those projects so people can get going; maybe Meta isn’t a necessary step for every project. We don’t want to be too prescriptive about process here. And I see that’s part of your frustration. You are asking how it's all supposed to work. And we’re saying: here are some tools, let’s figure out how to make it work. The answers are likely different for each subcommunity. Which is another reason not to overthink product and process.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 0:14
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    The private discussion space can be used to propose and refine discussions that the RMs want to put on Meta. And also discuss things that are too mundane for Meta, or not relevant (like "what do you think of that draft article submission that only we can see?”). More or less how chat has been used historically for some subcommunities and subgroups.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 0:14
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    As for gamification, that is what it is. People who are turned off by that don’t like it. People who are motivated by it are motivated by it, and so we lean into that. Does it make people ignore other tag areas? That’s an interesting concern. I think people work in the tags that they want to work in. If you’re saying that collectives is making contribution in certain tags more appealing, I’d say be careful there, you might be undermining your own point.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 0:16
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    My concern, on the gamification side of things, is, again, this promotes only one piece of the puzzle. there's a lot more to SO than just maximizing the number of answers that get posted per month. Often answers even get in the way of the reason this network is even the valuable resource that it is due to lack of tools to deal with what remains. Yes, certainly adding gamification here and there will produce measurable results... if that's what we were looking for... that could be done far more efficiently than one tag group at a time. Collectives is a solution looking for a problem to solve.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 0:58
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    It sounds more like you're saying that Collectives doesn't solve every problem, which is a pretty tall order. See my response to BenReiniger's comment above; the idea is to approach this one tag group at a time, to see what's possible with that approach. Problems can vary by subject area. There's no claim here that Collectives is "nailing it" and it's absolutely understood that there's a wide range of opinions on the value of having these spaces. We are still learning what works best, and having the spaces exist is how we learn.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 15:12
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    It's been 2 years. We've seen a facelift of the collective landing page and bulletins added. Articles still can't be edited by the community, articles still serve no purpose outside of existing within a collective, nothing learned from collectives has been applied outside of collectives, where are the positives?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 15:18
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    The criticisms and frustrations are not unfair, Kevin. Regarding the "2 years" - while the functionality is largely the same, the nature and implementation of the newer community-run collectives is different and much newer (just since March). I'm not saying you should reset the clock, but I do think it's fair to ask for a second one.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 2:14
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    @Berthold People are not on Meta, because they are not sufficiently involved and invested in the platform. They will come to Meta when they want to engage more with the site and its development. If somebody isn't found on Meta, that's a sign they're not that interested in this. You're better off working with the actually engaged and dedicated users, with the persistence to provide substantial value, than to dismiss them as only a minor part of your users. Users may be very active on the main site, without the interest in any further engagement with the development of the site. Commented Jul 23, 2023 at 16:18
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    If you want more voices and more feedback in this, consider inviting these users to Meta, which actually works, and is the established platform for discussion, planning, feedback and criticism. Instead of collectives on the main page, you could enhance Meta with more structure, a better overview, public issue trackers, and other tools the community and company alike can use to direct the discussion and development of the site. Commented Jul 23, 2023 at 16:22
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    But I don't see this. I don't see the SE company improve this situation. What I have seen with the years, is an attempt at neglecting Meta (and a certain staff member trying to completely shut down Meta at one point in the past). Right now, there's an ongoing strike, in which the company is not sufficiently invested in resolving. I don't see an improvement for the community here. Instead I'm left speculating about why these collectives are pushed forward. I don't think it's for the community. Collectives should be abandoned in favour of enhancing Meta, and then using that to improve SO. Commented Jul 23, 2023 at 16:27
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    "As for gamification, that is what it is." Have you considered trying to gamify meta sites a little bit more instead? Not the destructive kind of gamification, please; that would be horrible, but actually improving meta sites with more overview of a site's development, the current issues needing resolvement, etc, and provide "fame and acknowledgement" to the users investing in this? Commented Jul 23, 2023 at 16:31
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    @AndreasdetestsAIhype yea, but that couldn't be packaged up and sold to large businesses as a community building tool
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 25, 2023 at 14:30

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