-43

Backstory (NOT ENTIRELY RELEVANT TO THE REAL QUESTION)

I believe my question isn't a duplicate, but a moderator does (note: I do not care whether you believe it was a duplicate or not). I created edits explaining why my question might not be a duplicate, and the moderator continues to rollback my hard work and edits, saying that meta discussion should not be on my post. Replying, I quoted the duplicate notice passage, saying that I should "edit [my] question to highlight the difference between the associated question and [mine]. If edited, [my] question will be reviewed and might be reopened." However, this moderator stayed adamant, refusing to listen.

Important bit:

The moderator deleted my apologies to the answer writers about their reputation loss (someone was downvoting for no reason). Next, he proceeded to lock my question and delete all our discussion.

The question: (I'm not asking about whether my question is a duplicate or not)

Regardless of whether my question was a duplicate or not, is this abuse of moderator privileges? I should be able to voice my own opinions.

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  • 14
    Be careful to make sure you know the difference between a moderator and a curator. Wiktor is a curatior, dharman is a moderator. You can tell by the diamond next to dharman's name, and the lack of one next to wiktor's.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 23 at 16:33
  • 31
    No, it's not abuse. Repeatedly rolling back noisy edits, on the other hand, is abuse.
    – Cerbrus
    Jun 23 at 16:33
  • 5
    "I should be able to voice my own opinion and this moderator simply shut it all down" what are you doing here if not voicing your opinion..?
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 16:36
  • 20
    Because a question on Stack Overflow isn't a place for opinions and discussion. The system worked! 👍
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 16:39
  • 16
    You didn't explain the dupe closure, you added meta commentary, and then kept editting it back after a moderator removed it. That was your hint that the edit you did was wrong. A different and correct edit would have not been rolled back. Rolling back a moderator's action is only asking for a post to be locked.
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 16:42
  • 6
    After reading your edits in the edit history, I would also add: the banner specifically says " This question has answers here"(Not this question is a exact duplicate of that question) and "A community member has associated this post with a similar question.". Regarding "your question adding value", it still adds value. It won't be deleted as long as it has a answer with +1. Nothing changed except there's a banner on top of your question linking it to another question and no more answers can be posted to your question.
    – TheMaster
    Jun 23 at 16:50
  • 2
    I'm pretty sure this question will be closed as duplicate also. But for the record, I don't agree with this closure..
    – TheMaster
    Jun 23 at 16:57
  • 15
    If you understand downvotes as "toxic" and upvotes as "welcoming" then I'm afraid you misunderstand them. Up/down votes are a content rating system to denoting if the post was useful and/or helpful. There's nothing about "welcoming" attached to them. I'd go as far as to say that using a vote to (un)welcome a user to the community is misuse of the votes; the vote is targeting the user not the content.
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 16:59
  • 16
    No one has "hated" on you. The community has attempted to explain why what you did was received poorly, by a moderator, and why the post was locked as a result; we've tried to help by explaining that. If you don't like those reasons is your decision, but that doesn't change the way the community treats bad edits.
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 17:02
  • 12
    Comments calling you dumb would be a violation of the code of conduct, so please feel free to flag such incidences when they happen.
    – E_net4
    Jun 23 at 17:06
  • 2
    @ThomA Off topic note and probably related to OP's question: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/402422/…
    – TheMaster
    Jun 23 at 17:13
  • 12
    Disagreeing with you is not "hate". You requested community input, and you have received it. Please flag any actual hate for moderator attention, though do note that moderation capacity on the main site is severely reduced at the moment, so flags there may take a while to handle. Do not continue to levy baseless accusations of conspiracy (accusing users of summoning backup, etc.) and hate in the comments. If there are actual Code of Conduct violations, you may flag them, but remember that disagreement is not a Code of Conduct violation.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Jun 24 at 1:17
  • 7
    posts on meta generally receive more attention than posts, on main site. On main most users browse only tags they are interested in, here, due to lower volume of questions, most users see every question. Plus, I have to agree with all other commenters: I don't see anything even remotely resembling hate. Comments explaining how you made a mistake are not hate. I'd even say they are love, because they (intended to) help you avoid such mistakes in future.
    – markalex
    Jun 24 at 6:17
  • 2
    And from What should we do when one person tries to delete every duplicate?: "I admit that I (a fairly high rep user) am afraid to post questions in the regex tag. My first question in that tag got attacked (and I deleted it). I was a ~30K rep user at the time. Since then I have felt that you needed to be really really sure you had an extra extra good and worthy question before posting one in the regex tag. (Basically, if a tag could be considered "unfriendly", then that tag is." Jun 24 at 14:07
  • 2
    I would say that posts with tone like this question has are received poorly on this site. Mere presence of said word doesn't result in said receivement.
    – markalex
    Jun 24 at 19:22

3 Answers 3

-10

Two things:

  1. The dupe-voter was not a moderator, but a gold tag badge holder who can unilaterally close questions as duplicate for questions tagged with said tag.
  2. A moderator rolled back your unnecessary explanation of what a duplicate is, because that's not explaining why your question isn't a duplicate. Slight difference in words, big in implications.

Now the dupe-voter is a user who causes unnecessary friction because they're trying to bend the site rules their way. See What's up with the [regex] tag? It seems many on-topic [regex] tag were removed? for another evaluation of their behavior by me.

They have posted over 20K answers in the tag. Answering that many questions causes people to get bored of seeing the same question over and over again. You aren't gonna convince me that there are no duplicate answers in those 20K, but they still don't like certain (simple?) questions repeated. That's their problem, not yours.

The answer to your question comes down to something along the lines of:

If you want to match a string (foo) in a regular expression, you must escape the parentheses in the expression: \(foo\).

Pretty simple, and I'm sure that with a little searching you can find a Q&A that explain this. If you know that that's the issue. If you don't, and you get linked to What special characters must be escaped in regular expressions? instead, you'll have to do the mental jump from "Why isn't my regex working" to "I must have not escaped what I should have or vice versa".

Again, that's fine if you know, but if you don't, it isn't.

They appear to be trying to create a kind of "RTFM" culture, treating the linked question as the chapter about escaping. I mean: look at the 286 other questions linked to it. That's cute, but not how this site works.

So:

  1. You've been unlucky to need regex help.
  2. You should not have gone and complained about what you think a duplicate is, but instead explained what part of the duplicate you didn't understand.
  3. If the mods weren't on strike, I'd beg them to have a hearty heart-to-heart talk with the given user. You can still try by custom mod flagging your question. Make sure to be specific.
19
  • Wow, 286, that's insane. I guess I'm not the only one. Something interesting is that some posts are positive in voting while others are negative.
    – anon
    Jun 23 at 17:36
  • 1
    Some of that won't be unique to [regex]. Unfortunately some tags do also garner a lot of low quality posts, and some of those end up deleted quite quickly (so you won't be able to see them). With the strike on at the moment, however, many of these posts may not actually be getting the downvotes they normally would. It's a known "phenomenon" that the quality of posts feels like it's declining. (This comment is not discussing the quality of your posts and it should not be read that way.)
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 17:45
  • 7
    (re: deleted comment asking why this was downvoted) I haven't downvoted it, but I'm considering downvoting it mainly because asking for code is how Stack Overflow works; an attempt is not required and generally makes questions less useful. The first paragraph teaches people the wrong thing about Stack Overflow.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Jun 23 at 18:10
  • 4
    It also does seem to be mostly a duplicate. The primary issue in your question is that you failed to escape some parentheses (also the period, but that didn't cause it). That has nothing to do with "adding additional text around pattern and text"; it has to do with the fact that what you added missed an escape. There's also the fact that you didn't write the quantifier after the \d; that's arguably a typo, although arguably "it doesn't match the whole string" is a generally useful explanation to other people with similar issues, but that seems secondary to the parentheses issue here.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Jun 23 at 18:10
  • 3
    The regex tag does have some problems with misuse of RTFM-style dupe closures, although I don't think this is a particularly bad example of it. (Mods have tried to discourage it before the strike, though we have limited time generally, especially with the influx of AI-generated crap.)
    – Ryan M Mod
    Jun 23 at 18:12
  • 1
    The hasty deletion of regex questions has been brought up (although without a clear decision on how to handle them) meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/405460/…, but any potential situation of regex questions being inappropriately closed as too broad a duplicate is something that would merit its own question, without calling out the one person who is seemingly one of the very few curators of that tag. You are doing us no favours with this individual shaming.
    – E_net4
    Jun 23 at 18:20
  • 5
    It is true that it's virtually impossible to answer questions in the regex tag without this particular user strong-arming the thread one way or the other in a way that feels less like curation, and more like wiring things up so they have total control over the tag. I gave up answering in the regex tag years ago, and a disproportionate volume of my deleted answers are in the tag. Almost all of those deletions are from this lone wolf. That said, they're sometimes on target with their curation actions and this may be one such case.
    – ggorlen
    Jun 23 at 18:29
  • 1
    @Ryan alright, I've edited that part out to not let it distract from my main point. I still believe in regex it is more important than elsewhere to show your work. Because regular expressions have like five basic components and maybe as many modifiers, the product thereof would therefore fit in 25 "how-to" questions. Regex questions are either debugging questions, or it is a tag where we do accept "I have this string, give me the expression to match $part". That is not equal to "how to do $concept". Each input string is different; many, many patterns match.
    – CodeCaster
    Jun 23 at 19:30
  • 2
    @CodeCaster yeah, it's a real problem & I'm not sure there's a great solution. The old "too localized" close reason did have some real applicability in regex, but...probably wasn't worth the problems it caused. Certainly most "here is a list of requirements" regex Qs aren't useful to anyone other than the asker (and they're often homework or interview-type Qs explicitly designed to be hard to look up), and an attempt rarely makes them better. For instance, here there were 2 unrelated errors; the chances of someone having that exact combination of errors and finding that question seems low.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Jun 23 at 21:01
  • @E_net4isonstrike Sorry, but I think you misunderstand. I never said Dharman's name out loud. I only referred to him as "a moderator". I'm not taking his actions personally.
    – anon
    Jun 24 at 18:00
  • 1
    "If you don't, and you get linked to What special characters must be escaped in regular expressions? instead, you'll have to do the mental jump from "Why isn't my regex working" to "I must have not escaped what I should have or vice versa"." - ew, no. Questions like "why doesn't X regex work?" "why doesn't Y regex work?" "why doesn't Z regex work?", when the reason all of them don't work is because something needs to be escaped and isn't, are not viable. There are arbitrarily many such regexes, and exactly one cause. The canonical could possibly be modified to smooth over that mental jump. Jun 25 at 6:51
  • 1
    "I want to call out this user because of their behavior." - generally speaking, I am sympathetic to the concerns raised in meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/425287. But in this case, Wiktor has clearly done nothing wrong (aside from not being on strike ;) ). When I was closing duplicates, I would make equivalent closures in the Python tag all the time, with (as far as I can tell, from e.g. talking about it in the Python chat room) broad community support. Jun 25 at 6:53
  • 1
    However, duplicate closures like this one are the exact human intervention that solves that problem, and one of the primary services Stack Overflow can provide. Compare to if the same question were asked on a traditional discussion forum; experts responding could a) get frustrated at yet another noob; b) write an explanation from scratch of the same concept for the Nth time; c) copy and paste from a sticky/reference thread; d) link to said thread. Stack Overflow's design is intended to normalize the d) approach to avoid both frustration and clutter. (2/3) Jun 25 at 6:57
  • 1
    Of course, that only addresses the "missing escapes for parentheses" issue. The "missing quantifier" - well, there might be a separate duplicate for that, but it's either a typo or else a separate problem that should be in a separate question. Yes, there's an issue with regex in that a simple string can have multiple unrelated things wrong with it. That doesn't obviate OPs of the expectation to research the problem by analyzing what goes wrong, breaking the problem down into parts and locating a single point of failure - in other words, attempting basic debugging. (3/3) Jun 25 at 7:02
  • 4
    It seems to me like the main issue here is that the canonical is written as a "reference-level" Q&A, but a "tutorial-level" Q&A would be much more practical. As inspiration for motivated, non-striking users: the title might be something like "How do I make a regex to match a literal string? Why can't I directly match certain characters?" Jun 25 at 7:07
28

I was the moderator who handled the dispute on your question.

I removed the edit and explained to you in the comment section what you should do instead. You didn't listen and rolled it back. I had no other option but to lock the post. I was hoping you would come to meta with your concerns as you just did.

You should not be allowed to voice your opinions on the main site. The main site isn't the place for that. If you want to discuss your post, do it on the meta site.

In regards to votes and your comments that followed: I didn't vote on any answer or the question. Don't assume you know who voted. The comments you added were absolutely inappropriate as you were apologizing for something that should not require any apologies. Downvotes are not dislikes and they are not bad. In fact that is the only way you can express your opinion on the main site. Don't take votes personally as they only reflect our opinion of the post.

16
  • Ok, that makes sense. But why did you delete the discussion and what about the first paragraph of the explanation?
    – anon
    Jun 23 at 17:18
  • 13
    I deleted the discussion because it was a discussion. You read my messages and I read yours. It was over and the comments were no longer needed.
    – Dharman Mod
    Jun 23 at 17:22
  • And what did you think about my first paragraph?
    – anon
    Jun 23 at 17:24
  • 8
    Do you mean "Hi, so I see that this question has been marked as a duplicate of"? This has nothing to do with your question.
    – Dharman Mod
    Jun 23 at 17:30
  • 9
    The other sentences were unnecessary. If you want to say the answer(s) to the duplicate, do not answer your question, and explain the reason those answers did not resolve your problem that would have been fine. What you did instead was add 6 paragraphs of commentary on the reason it wasn't a duplicate. You complained instead of providing a simple explanation of the reason the answers were not a duplicate. A question is a duplicate, when an answer already exists, and can reasonably be determine also answers the new question. Jun 23 at 17:33
  • 4
    Sorry but I wasn't trying to be rude. When I said nothing I meant that it doesn't explain why the suggestion from the duplicate target doesn't apply to your regex question. The question should never contain any greetings or descriptions of the question asking process itself.
    – Dharman Mod
    Jun 23 at 17:37
  • 17
    "Also, please try not to be rude when you say the word "nothing"." -- what the... And then people wonder why so many of us hesitate making any comments when curating the site. | Why apologise, Dharman, you've done nothing even remotely wrong.
    – Dan Mašek
    Jun 23 at 18:11
  • 10
    And you don't need to assume bad faith from an innocuous sentence, but here we are...
    – Clive
    Jun 23 at 19:29
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    You asked people for their opinion, by posting this question on Meta, and now you're complaining that they're giving it to you? No one is calling your ideas dumb and incomprehensive... They're saying the edits to your question did not add information, and that they disagree with your claim that the question is not a duplicate. No, it's not normal or natural to perceive any of this as rude. Downvotes are never rude. Of course, no one is saying you made any mistakes on purpose. However, you rolled in with claims of "abuse of privileges", so that puts people on the defensive. Jun 23 at 23:16
  • @CodyGray-onstrike Please, stop prolonging useless discussion. I'm not a troll. Stop. I don't like to argue with people online. I would like to quote this however: "The question: (I'm not asking about whether my question is a duplicate or not)". I don't disagree that my question may have been a duplicate. That is very subjective, and I don't care whether you believe it is or not.
    – anon
    Jun 23 at 23:25
  • 10
    I think there's some confusion on your part. Stack Overflow is not a social network; we are a technical Q&A platform. Both posts and comments should be objective in nature, and anything that does not contribute to the analysis of the raised problem should be considered noise and therefore avoided. The feedback you perceive as personal is actually a cold, emotionless analysis based on the site's rules. Of course, there are some trolls on the site, as there are everywhere in life, but that's not the case here—it's just objectivity. Jun 24 at 3:02
  • 2
    If you haven't figured it out already. The answer to your question is No, there was no abuse from a moderator and all actions were completely appropriate for the situation. And that does not include closing the question as duplicate, because this was not done by a moderator and you also don't seem to be interested in that part. Jun 24 at 13:55
  • @DalijaPrasnikar Yes, I have taken the loss, from the surprisingly high 322 viewers and four moderators, all telling me the same thing (I guess words like "Abuse" and "privileges" really made this post blow up?). "ok, I guess I'll take that then 😔 If it adds value I'm fine, but it could be better" - Me.
    – anon
    Jun 24 at 17:44
  • 2
    You put text in your question that does not belong there, then you rolled back edits several time and then mod interfered and locked the post. This is standard procedure, don't take it personally. When your question gets closed as duplicate (regardless whether it was valid closure or not), you should edit it in a way that clarifies the question itself, not by adding text that says this is not duplicate and similar. Jun 24 at 18:31
  • 3
    In your case duplicate mentioned escaping characters that you didn't escaped. The proper course would be escaping those and see what happens. If the problem is solved fine, then it was indeed duplicate, if not, then you have another problem, but it is no longer a duplicate of that question. Having said that if the question has multiple issues, it is possible that people close it as duplicate because of single issue, even though there are more issues. Questions with multiple issues usually hold less value for future readers, so they remain closed regardless. It is still worth trying to improve. Jun 24 at 18:38
26

Your edit does nothing to improve the question or differentiate it from the duplicate target. If you feel the dupe closure is incorrect and no edit would fix that, your options are: leave a comment with an @ targeting the user who closed it, or opening a post here on MSO to discuss it.

No mod abuse occurred in this case given you repeatedly edited in the same irrelevant content into your question. A lock, as done in this case, has effectively ended that rollback war and forced you to take the latter action... so it seems to be doing it's job?

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    You added meta-commentary, that isn't what belongs in a question. YOu didn't edit the question to appropriate demonstrate why it's not a duplicate. Text like "so I see that this question has been marked as a duplicate" has no business being in a question. YOu quoted a blog that is irrelevant to the question you asked.
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 16:22
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    I can see your edits in the edit history, the entire 6 paragraph entry does nothing to explain why it isn't a dupe and is mostly meta commentry.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 23 at 16:22
  • 1
    A single line that stated "I reviewed What special characters must be escaped in regular expressions?, however, my question is about nquiring about special characters of regexes, but that dicusses foo instead." would have been all you needed then. Then a comment might have explained why "foo" is what you need.
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 16:24
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    I have read your question. There is no freedom of speech here.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 23 at 16:26
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    Your edits state (in way to many words) that you disagree with the duplicate closure. The problem is that it fails to explain why. "This is about a specific problem" is not enough, you need to explain why the dupe target does not solve that problem.
    – Cerbrus
    Jun 23 at 16:26
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    "I'm talking about the restriction on my freedom of speech" Stack Overflow and freedom of speech are completely unrelated. Stack Overflow isn't the government, and they have no intent of arresting you.
    – Thom A
    Jun 23 at 16:27
  • 2
    You don't disagree with the closure? Then what's the problem?
    – Cerbrus
    Jun 23 at 16:27
  • 7
    Personally, I agree with your dispute. it's not a duplicate of just that one question given your question has multiple problems that needed to be solved. It's your run-of-the-mill debugging question that isn't going to be a long-term useful artifact. but the lock was warranted and the edit was bad.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 23 at 16:28
  • 16
    There's nothing wrong with people downvoting answers they think aren't useful.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 23 at 16:34
  • 3
    you'd have to ask the downvoter, but i'd assume they're downvoting answers that they feel shouldn't have been posted, for whatever reason. I think that's a poor use of votes, but it's not considered abuse.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 23 at 16:36
  • 4
    Setting aside the question of whether the answers deserved to be downvoted (I'm not an SME, I can't judge that either way), you can't assume that the moderator in question was responsible for that - downvotes are anonymous by design. As for your deleted apologies, comments should only be used to suggest improvements or clarifications to an answer (at least on the main site; there's more leeway on Meta since it's inherently more disscussion-oriented), so the mod was well within their right to delete those.
    – F1Krazy
    Jun 23 at 16:37
  • 2
    I'm not aware of what specifically the keywords are, but i think downvote and upvote are both among them.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 23 at 16:39
  • 3
    Comments are by design temporary and you should assume they will be deleted. A better way to communicate to other users is by inviting them to chat
    – TheMaster
    Jun 23 at 16:40
  • 13
    Consider reviewing what comments are for. Comments that are not for the correct purpose will likely be deleted. Even comments that are for the correct purpose may be deleted if they are no longer needed.
    – Andrew T.
    Jun 23 at 16:43
  • 4
    Just an FYI: comments can be deleted by the comment author, a moderator, or by having enough flags raised on the comment. The number of flags required varies from 1, if the comment also matches some undisclosed content criteria (determined completely programmatically by the system), up to many flags, if the comment is significantly upvoted. Past needing only one, the most commonly needed number of flags for automatic deletion is 3. I'm not trying to say anything about this situation other than just making note that deletion of comments doesn't require an elected moderator.
    – Makyen Mod
    Jun 23 at 21:14