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Please continue to process the voting button design rollout by reverting¹, then applying abstraction.

There is absolutely no obligation whatsoever. If you asked me what I'd wish, then I would say:

Please change the current processing of the new design up/down voting clickable area ("voting buttons") feature by reverting and re-introducing it as a user-toggle.

To the best of my hope, this is a test. If so, then it would already help me if there is an option served to opt out of the test.

In the event that this is not a test, I would feel honored to have the original behavior without much interruption and then becoming able to test the new design as an option in a more controlled manner.

I'd consider it beneficial for the feature if all users registered prior production grade General Availability (GA) are able to opt in. And for those who registered afterward, to opt out, I'd consider beneficial to develop, test and maintain the feature, these later properties also for the earlier user profile.

I'm aware that this is entirely subjective and my own opinion only. That alone and the expression of my feelings in writing should not make anyone feel obligated to even consider it. However, it would be great for me if they, their developers, did. That is just as a note between the lines.

Also, I feel reminded somehow that it may be or could have been helpful to a certain degree to consider showing the mandatory, technically verifiable acceptance criteria for changes like these before the announcement of such changes development for a benefit like saving time until the first results are captured in the hope to release such changes faster. But this only as a note in the margin, while me as a content producer would not be a stakeholder nor addressee of such development documentation, I'm positive for those who are and care, there is a chance to consider towards these honorable goals, and that it then could have a good impact on these kinds of changes both in the future and in retrospective, your mileage may vary.

As I don't have much insight, please excuse me already for making suggestions what is not my business not only if you already do it this way. This was just because it was important to me and most likely because of missing information on my end. The source of truth, this holy grail, remains in the middle of yours, I'm only a bystander, and you get only a more or less random opinion out of the Internet - a medium that is famous to have the most of all random opinions (nowadays even enhanced by artificial intelligence which as we could see discussed on Meta is not always to our benefit).

It is an open secret that you all love to show your commitment and the constant improvements in usability across the whole network of Q&A sites.
Nevertheless, I'm only suggesting such changes first of all for Stack Overflow (and Meta) as I experienced those there firsthand. You know better what you would love to address across all the sites, if even at all.

I'm not expecting any of my suggestions are practically feasible as I'm not connected in any way, form or shape with the development team. Albeit made with the intention that I'd consider them they would, even the better I would do, I could never know. And those who can make a difference know better the flaws, their cause and know best the fixes. My full respect for them and their work, I'm full of hope that to hand over my little feedback they will make it turn into something great all-in-all.

I'm looking forward to seeing any other and perhaps some of these changes in the context of the feature after having the opportunity this morning for the first time to practically use the new design. And I'm sorry as the feedback comes that late, you may blame me, it was just that I was not able to use it in this form earlier.

Disclaimer:

The information provided in this posting is my sole personal opinion as a content producer on Stack Overflow. Only it is important to me, does not make me feel it must be important for others the same.

I'm not affiliated with the site. I've not yet received any swag.


¹ If reverting is not culturally accepted as one of, if not even the the most easy, fastest and productive ways of applying changes in software development supported by a version control system, consider it only as a description of the previous behavior without any cultural bias.

* An earlier version of the post had much more straight forward language which resulted in many misunderstandings, not limited to that this posting was read as a technical bug report, which was not my intention. Also triggering not only some users in wanting to learn more technicalities of what bugged me. However for me not the what the bug, but how to fix, the suggestion I can contribute is more important. My edit now hopefully makes it more clear, that I don't demand the fix this way, it was just what I'd wish, and that my expression in writing. I am always aware that no software is bug free, and that just counting the bugs can lead to unproductive nit-picking. The inception image is still available.

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  • 4
    I think I upvoted your question but I can't see it. Edit: include me in the screenshot!
    – CodeCaster
    May 31 at 9:11
  • 28
    "mandatory, technically verifiable acceptance criteria" - it's their site, they don't have to. The current MO seems to be: 1. Create Meta post appearing to ask for input. 2. Ignore most of that input. 3. Go ahead with the change anyway. 4. Do not respond to complaints. 5. Leave years-old bugs affecting many users alone. 6. More changes equal more click-throughs equals more moneys.
    – CodeCaster
    May 31 at 9:13
  • 7
    They look like buttons now. We want people to press them, so making them look like buttons is good. There are some contrast issues, which ought to be fixed, but demanding a revert is unproductive. Also we really do not need a setting for the button style. That would be a waste of development time that could be spent making useful features. If you really hate them, you can fix it client-side in most browsers pretty easily.
    – Ryan M Mod
    May 31 at 9:19
  • 7
    So, wait, what is actually the problem with the new design?
    – Cerbrus
    May 31 at 9:20
  • 3
    My comment addressed both the demand to revert and the request for a feature toggle. I also don't think it's "forcefully misread"ing to describe a post titled "Fix Voting button design by reverting" as "demanding a revert". Titles should summarize a post.
    – Ryan M Mod
    May 31 at 9:29
  • 5
    Instead of focussing on that "revert" word, how about you answer my earlier question: What is the problem with the new design?
    – Cerbrus
    May 31 at 9:41
  • 7
    Okay, you're reporting this as a "bug" that needs a "fix". However, as you've now been told multiple times, your post contains no explanation of the bug. Either edit your post to explain the bug, or edit your post to explain what specific non-bug change you're asking for.
    – Ryan M Mod
    May 31 at 10:15
  • 5
    "It must require Opt-in for users registering before production grade GA, registrations afterwards must be able to opt-out." You're not in the position to make any such demands... May 31 at 10:33
  • 5
    You're using a lot of words to essentially say nothing. May 31 at 10:54
  • 4
    @Enet4 When submitting a bug report, it's the author's responsibility to at least mention that, and preferably link to it. This post is the first I've seen about the redesign. That context should be in the question.
    – Cerbrus
    May 31 at 11:00
  • 6
    @hakre You're not answering my question! You've submitted a bug report. You're stating there's something to fix. WHAT is broken? How is it broken? What needs fixing? Explain it, link to it, describe it!
    – Cerbrus
    May 31 at 11:01
  • 6
    "the voting buttons have degraded" Degraded how? What I'm trying to tell you is that you need to be descriptive when submitting a bug report. You're writing a lot to justify not being descriptive...
    – Cerbrus
    May 31 at 11:36
  • 10
    "Also please show the mandatory, technically verifiable acceptance criteria for changes like these before announcing to start developing such a change to prevent unnecessary time spend until first results can be gathered." What an absolutely entitled statement to make. May 31 at 13:23
  • 7
    I'm not trying to be rude but I find your writing style very difficult to follow.
    – user438383
    May 31 at 15:32
  • 5
    @hakre Imagine you've just spent a week building something. That something gets tested and rolled out. Now someone tells you to revert that change. They refuse to say why, they refuse to explain what was wrong. We're not against "reverting changes" in general. They just need a good reason. "To show reverting works" is not a good reason. Generally "reverting" something is only done because something went wrong. "Reverting" is hardly ever the most efficient / productive option. It's usually a last resort if something can not be fixed.
    – Cerbrus
    Jun 1 at 11:01

1 Answer 1

15

Since the question was completely re-written, I'll rewrite my answer:

Please continue to process the voting button design rollout by reverting¹, then applying abstraction.

There's no "process" to continue. The feature is rolled out.
Besides, for SE to even consider a revert, you'd need to specify why. You need to justify reverting that change before you request that.

There is absolutely no obligation whatsoever. If you asked me what I'd wish, then I would say:

Please change the current processing of the new design up/down voting clickable area ("voting buttons") feature by reverting and re-introducing it as a user-toggle.

The design is already implemented, there's no more "processing". We can provide feedback and hope SE does something with it, and that's more or less it.

"Please make it configurable / optional" is just not viable. It doesn't scale. If every new little ting has to be toggle-able by the user, you end up with an exponential growth in potential UI configurations that are impossible to test, maintain and make sure they don't break.

To the best of my hope, this is a test. If so, then it would already help me if there is an option served to opt-out of the test.

As I stated, this is not a test, this is just rolled out already.

In the event that this is not a test, I would feel honored to have the original behavior without much interruption and then becoming able to test the new design as an option in a more controlled manner.

Again, it's not a test.

I'd consider it beneficial for the feature if all users registered prior production grade GA are able to opt in. And for those who registered afterward, to opt out, I'd consider beneficial to develop, test and maintain the feature, these later properties also for the earlier user profile.

That's not how SE works. You can't make everything opt-in, see my earlier explanation.

I'm aware that this is entirely subjective and my own opinion only. That alone and the expression of my feelings in writing should not make anyone feel obligated to even consider it. However, it would be great for me if they, their developers, did. That is just as a note between the lines.

Also, I feel reminded somehow, that it may be or could have been helpful to a certain degree to consider showing the mandatory, technically verifiable acceptance criteria for changes like these before the announcement of such changes development for a benefit like saving time until the first results are captured in the hope to release such changes faster. But this only as a note in the margin, while me as a content producer would not be a stakeholder nor addressee of such development documentation, I'm positive for those who are and care, there is a chance to consider towards these honorable goals, and that it then could have a good impact on these kinds of changes both in the future and in retrospective, YMMV.

A lot of (rambling) text to say "I'd like to see acceptance criteria". You're not entitled to that, and you're asking for a crapload of bureaucracy to "release such changes faster"? That makes no sense.

As I don't have much insight, please excuse me already for making suggestions what is not my business not only if you already do it this way. This was just because it was important to me and most likely because of missing information on my end. The source of truth, this holy grail, remains in the middle of yours, I'm only a bystander, and you get only a more or less random opinion out of the internet - a medium that is famous to have the most of all random opinions (nowadays even enhanced by artificial intelligence which as we could see discussed on Meta is not always to our benefit).

It is an open secret that you all love to show your commitment and the constant improvements in usability across the whole network of Q&A sites. Nevertheless, I'm only suggesting such changes first of all for Stack Overflow (and Meta) as I experienced those there firsthand. You know better what you would love to address across all the sites, if even at all.

What. The. Actual. Frick is this rambling?

I'm not expecting any of my suggestions are practically feasible as I'm not connected in any way, form or shape with the development team. Albeit made with the intention that I'd consider them they would, even the better I would do, I could never know. And those who can make a difference know better the flaws, their cause and know best the fixes. My full respect for them and their work, I'm full of hope that to hand over my little feedback they will make it turn into something great all-in-all.

I'm looking forward to seeing any other and perhaps some of these changes in the context of the feature after having the opportunity this morning for the first time to practically use the new design. And I'm sorry as the feedback comes that late, you may blame me, it was just that I was not able to use it in this form earlier.

Stop sucking up.... -.-

Disclaimer:

The information provided in this posting is my sole personal opinion as a content producer on Stackoverflow. Only it is important to me, does not make me feel it must be important for others the same.

I'm not affiliated with the site. I've not yet received any swag.

Irrelevant disclaimer...

1 If reverting is not culturally accepted as one of, if not even the the most easy, fastest and productive ways of applying changes in software development supported by a version control system, consider it only as a description of the previous behavior without any cultural bias.

"Reverting" isn't the problem.
It's the consistent lack of justification to revert this change.

You're going into excessive depth about how you want this design change rolled back, yet you fail to provide even a single reason why, instead rambling on an on about how everyone's so resistant to reverting the change.

Imagine you've just spent a week building something. That something gets tested and rolled out. Now someone tells you to revert that change. They refuse to say why, they refuse to explain what was wrong. We're not against "reverting changes" in general. They just need a good reason. "To show reverting works" is not a good reason. Generally "reverting" something is only done because something went wrong. "Reverting" is hardly ever the most efficient / productive option. It's usually a last resort if something can not be fixed.

* An earlier version of the post had much more straight forward language which resulted in many misunderstandings, not limited to that this posting was read as a technical bug report, which was not my intention. Also triggering not only some users in wanting to learn more technicalities of what bugged me. However for me not the what the bug but how to fix, the suggestion I can contribute is more important. My edit now hopefully makes it more clear, that I don't demand the fix this way, it was just what I'd whish, and that my expression in writing. I always aware that no software is bug free, and that just counting the bugs can lead to unproductive nit-picking. The inception image is still available.

The straightforward language wasn't the problem. In fact, this edit made your question that much more incomprehensible. I can't describe it better than "rambling"... I get it, effective communication is hard, but you should really try to get to the point.

Now, at the very core of all the feedback you've gotten, is the repeated request to explain why the feature should be rolled back.

Even with this massive wall of text you changed your question into, you still didn't provide a single reason...


Old answer for reference:

Please fix the new design of the up/down voting clickable area ("voting buttons") by reverting the change.

You might want to specify what is "broken" when requesting a "fix".

If this a test, please provide an option to opt-out of the test.

Nope, it's a rolled-out feature / update / change.

If this is not a test, revert, then make it a feature by allowing the user to configure the new design as an option. It must require Opt-in for users registering before production grade GA, registrations afterwards must be able to opt-out.

"Please make it configurable / optional" is just not viable. It doesn't scale. If every new little ting has to be toggle-able by the user, you end up with an exponential growth in potential UI configurations that are impossible to test, maintain and make sure they don't break.

Also please show the mandatory, technically verifiable acceptance criteria for changes like these before announcing to start developing such a change to prevent unnecessary time spend until first results can be gathered.

You're a user, not a product owner. You're in no place to demand this kind of process. That's just simply not how Stack Exchange works, even on larger features. At best, we get asked for feedback first, which may or may not be taken into account.

5
  • 1
    The new design is the problem, or to differentiate a bit more, how it is rolled out. I personally miss the option to disable it. This is a fix request. This is not a little thing to me. In case of doubt, it is close to borderline to even meta on this topic for the reality being. But I don't complain and make the fix suggestion instead as there is something to fix.
    – hakre
    May 31 at 9:26
  • 7
    "it is close to borderline to even meta on this topic for the reality being." ... whut? Honestly I have no idea what you're talking about @hakre... You still haven't stated what the actual problem with the new design is. There's not gonna be an option, there's not gonna be a revert, especially not if you fail to clarify why that'd be necessary.
    – Cerbrus
    May 31 at 9:30
  • 1
    That's a complicated way of writing that apart from the level of a first fast fix, it makes little sense to discuss the feature for itself, given the time it already lives; reality does not suggest otherwise to me - YMMV. And you have kind of a steamy way to ask, please don't conflate your reading of my writing with my commentary, especially when you already realize, that you do not have even a single, positive confirmation of it. Your comment might not have been addressed at all.
    – hakre
    May 31 at 10:06
  • 2
    There being two hamburger icons in the top bar, THAT'S a problem. The vote buttons being obtuse is just a petty annoyance.
    – Gimby
    May 31 at 11:01
  • @Gimby Oof, I still get those 2 mixed up!
    – Cerbrus
    May 31 at 11:03

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