Around a month ago, I created a new chat room intended for registering questions which should be closed, but don't have recent activity within the scope set by SOCVR. Any room with a collection of close-worthy questions will lead to readers voting on them; as such, I decided to make a formal room for cv-pls for old questions. The room has gained interest from a few regulars of SOCVR, and has been a modest success so far.
Not long after the creation of this room, some concerns were raised and pointed out, the most pressing of these being that rooms whose purpose is moderation of SO need to be known by and authorized by the moderators or CMs of SO. This post seeks to address this concern.
All the rules of SOCVR apply, except the requirement for recent activity. Only cv-pls is permitted. All other requests belong in SOCVR. This is a specialized room whose only purpose is cv-pls for inactive questions. As such, the room functions similarly to SOCVR, but with no overlap in target moderation. It's not a duplicate or competition to SOCVR; rather, it's a supplement. No responsibilities are to be duplicated.
There's currently 2 room owners; me and tripleee. We are both very active in various chat rooms.
All requests are archived: completed; cancelled.
A rough count currently shows 106 closed questions, and 7 cancelled requests, including 4 incorrect request types (userscript issue in at least 2 cases) The other requests were cancelled after issues raised by others. 4 requests (3 completed, 1 cancelled) were moved to the general trash room, because the archival rooms didn't exist yet.
Mostly severely off-topic questions (not about programming) have been closed so far.
The room also serves as a registry/archive of questions that should be closed, but have not yet been so. If a request is left unhandled, it remains in the registry. Bad requests and disputed ones are moved to the archive of cancelled requests. Because these questions have no recent activity, archiving valid and correct requests for future closing is not an issue in terms of potential edits salvaging them, which may be an issue with questions which do have recent activity. If an old question changes in such a way that it should no longer be closed, requests are moved to the archive of cancelled requests, upon a notice of this.
Is this room necessary?
Many of the same arguments for SOCVR apply. The room is not a solution in search for a problem, but a solution for the problems with the existing queues. It's frustrating to flag and vote to close questions over and over again, only for these flags and votes to age out. This is a personal experience of both the room owners, and I assume others. If we could successfully curate the site with the existing tools, this room would not have emerged in the first place.
I close vote [these same old posts] approx once a month in the vain hope that one day someone will come across them in the close vote queue and concur
Had the queues worked, we would not need this room. The reality is that the queues don't work; having flags and votes age out is work wasted and thrown away. It's demotivating. Not only is this room an effective solution to this problem; it is also much better at handling disputes/questions/discussions. There may be additional concerns with closing older content. The queues cannot handle this. Meta will still continue to be the location for discussing less clear, or wider, cases. There's no intention to take away Meta's broader moderation rights.
An alternative to this room is to remove the requirement for cv-pls requests to only concern questions with recent activity, in SOCVR. If that happens, this room serves no purpose, and the only reasonable decision is to shut it down, or put it on hold. However, I think it’s important not to lower SOCVR’s requirement for recent activity. There are a lot of recent questions to handle, and as cv-pls is the most common request made in SOCVR, it's important to ensure that SOCVR remains focused on handling the content of immediate necessity. There's only a limited number of close votes available for each user per day, and it makes sense to prioritize these on immediate matters first. Cleaning up older content is a secondary task to many curators. So I don’t believe that the right course of action is to loosen that rule in SOCVR. This filtering ensures that close votes are prioritized correctly. It also ensures that SOCVR remains effective at its mission. This is important for handling content with recent activity, and that's what members of SOCVR expect.
The room was early on added to Sloshy, an anti-freezing bot, simply because I didn’t expect the room to always be gaining requests, and that’s fine. It’s not an explicit goal to search for old questions to close them; rather, it’s a location to post old questions that should be closed, when you come across them. Simply put, the room is not an encouragement in itself. Participation is not sought, but welcomed. The experience so far has been that the room does in fact not require an anti-freezing bot, as there's usually a few requests posted every day. The archival rooms have also been added to Sloshy, which especially for the cancelled requests, may show up to be necessary.
Whether or not there's a need to search for and close old questions is rather irrelevant. This room should not be a priority for members, however, they may choose to participate based on their own preferences. Cleaning up old and inactive content is a valid curation task on the site, and letting us do this more efficiently shouldn't be a problem.
In the end, I think the most important measure is that the participants find it to be meaningful. Curating the site is our way of contributing and helping; this room is simply one of the tools we can use for this task, which we enjoy doing. We find motivation in keeping the standards and quality of the site up; closing close-worthy content, even old stuff, is one means of doing so.
Is this room counter-productive?
Not to the ones of us that participate in it. It’s opt-in; we’re not asking Meta for cleanup efforts, of any kind, or being disruptive in any other way. This is an autonomous cleanup effort; an aid to our already existing every-day curation. But should we close old questions? Yes. Age is irrelevant. The close reasons apply to all questions, irrespective of their age.
Some may say that it's pointless to close old garbage that nobody sees. But if nobody sees the garbage anyway, it doesn’t hurt to close and delete it, does it?
Closing questions also make them eligible for deletion, which allows us to remove content that simply doesn't belong on the site. Questions with should be closed, but have historical value, can be locked, such as this one, which was closed a few days ago.
By quickly handling requests, there’s a possibility of not letting the questions linger in the review queue, which potentially reduces the load on the queue reviewers. I have no data to back this up. Do note that this would nonetheless be secondary.
Posting reopen-pls
It's reasonable to make the same people closing a question responsible for reopening them. Currently, 100% of everyone participating in this room, including the room owners, are regulars in SOCVR. The current rule is that reopen-pls requests are posted in SOCVR. We have no intention of moving any responsibilities from SOCVR; SOCVR is already handling all these requests very well. SOCVR is faster, and a better room for handling reopen-pls. This is also within their mandate. This follows the policy that everything which is appropriate in SOCVR is to be posted in there, and not in this room.
Room abuse
We are not looking to close everything on the site. The room is not an attempt at closing valid questions, or circumventing the safeguards in place by the queues; any such intentional usage is abuse of the room. The room is a continuation of the already existing curation efforts on the site.
The success so far does show that this room has merit, and does follow the rules of SO. Abuse will be dealt with. Disputes have arisen about closing certain questions. These disputes were either settled, or the requests were cancelled. This is good, and is also something the queues fail at; discussions about the questions targeted for closing are welcome.
Any abuse which is beyond the room owners' abilities to handle will naturally be escalated to moderators. Because of the room's narrow scope, and small surface of moderation, the potential for abuse, and for abuse to go unnoticed, is smaller than for many other curation rooms. Because the room's primary purpose is curation, room owners and regulars are familiar with curation, moderation, and handling of various cases.
Finally; we're all friendly people. :) Mistakes do happen, and the right course of action will always be to correct them, and learn from them.
Message to moderators/CMs
We wish to continue the curation efforts through the usage of this room. The request as such is for the moderators' support/authorization for the existence of this room. We understand that you may be skeptic about it, however, we're ready to continue showing that this room has its positive value. The room already has support from seasoned curators. May we be entrusted with the support from moderators too?