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I would appreciate help understanding why this question about TensorFlow module installation on Mac Silicon is marked as "not about programming or software development".

Is it because the question is about software module installation or is it because it's specific to Apple Silicon?

There are other open questions like it, such as How to install pip for Python 3 on Mac OS X? and How to run CocoaPods on Apple Silicon (M1), which indicates to me the installation or platform e.g. Mac or Windows is not the reason.

So what are the reasons or criteria why the question is marked as not about programming or software development and closed? Or is there a better way to formulate the question?

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    if it's a tool used primarily for programming, the question is likely "on topic", in terms of not falling under the not about programming close reason (this doesn't make it not closable under other reasons, ofc)
    – Kevin B
    Mar 6 at 19:22
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    @KevinB, thanks for the follow up. TensorFlow module is a programming (Python) library for machine learning. There is no place where use it without writing a python code.
    – mon
    Mar 6 at 19:28

3 Answers 3

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Your question is on-topic for Stack Overflow. It has now been re-opened. I'm happy to continue re-opening it if it ends up closed again for some inexplicable reason.

As I noted in a comment on Makoto's answer, our guidance is pretty clear; "software tools commonly used by programmers" are on-topic here. Libraries are software tools by any definition, and if you're using them in a programming context, then issues with them are on-topic here. Attempting to draw a subtle distinction between tools and libraries is nonsensical, unsupported by the site rules, and fundamentally harmful because it leads to a situation where the site's scope is unclear and determined not by policy but by mythology.

Note that the way your question was originally worded ("Please advise possible causes and solutions or workarounds for the problem") may have struck some close-voters as too open-ended of a question. It's better to simply describe the problem and ask how to solve it. Of course, it's OK to ask for workarounds in the case where the library (or whatever thing you're trying to do) is officially unsupported.

Stylistically, formatting every section with headings is not something that I like. Maybe some people do like it; I don't know (although I've never seen anyone who reads questions that says they prefer this awkward, disjointed style). Therefore, I've also removed that. Having a heading/section labeled "Question" makes very little sense; after all, the whole thing is a question.

The "Update" section didn't appear to belong in the question at all. It appeared to be an attempt to provide an answer to the question. Since you've now posted a proper answer to the question, that information should be moved there (if it is not already there). Regardless, I've gone ahead and removed that "Update" section.

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I think historically we've waffled a wee bit, but the general rule of thumb is:

  • Tool installation is on-topic.
  • Library installation is off-topic.

Borrowing inspiration from this original discussion, the sentiment is that if we answered questions on how to install libraries all the time, then the information could become out of date quickly. Also, it's pretty specialized and very in-the-moment; your library could have a quirk with your OS and BIOS that causes installation to fail on some machines but not others, and the people trying to answer it have it working on theirs because they don't have the same setup as you.

Tools don't tend to change that rapidly or be that finicky. Also, they're pretty generalized; many people leverage VS Code on a daily basis, just as they do Eclipse or IntelliJ.

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    Thanks for the answer. I can sense the point.
    – mon
    Mar 6 at 19:32
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    It bothers me though. It is exactly examples such as this that makes the site hard to use without conflict. Are we really expecting people to know and remember pedantic distinctions such as this? We may be expecting too much.
    – Gimby
    Mar 7 at 10:10
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    @Gimby: This explains the waffle. Basically, there's a blurry line between getting an environment for a developer to work in set up, and setting up the developer's application. Not many people recognize the nuance and this leads to friction.
    – Makoto
    Mar 7 at 16:43
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    I don't agree with this subtle distinction. The guidance is pretty clear; "software tools commonly used by programmers" are on-topic here. Libraries are software tools by any definition, and if you're using them in a programming context, then issues with them are on-topic here. They may be on-topic elsewhere, but they're definitely on-topic here. There may be some gray area when it comes to libraries that are installed by end users in order to use a program, and thus don't involve any programming, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. Mar 8 at 21:44
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    Also, the sentiment you cite is bunk. The fact that information may go out of date quickly is not a reason for anything to be off-topic here. Nor is that something is specialized and "in-the-moment". Plenty of tools (heck, even some programming languages) are highly volatile and finicky. There are plenty of programming problems that are perfectly on-topic by all accounts, yet relate to a quirk of an OS or particular system. I agree that those questions are probably not among the most generally useful of all our questions, but that doesn't make them off-topic or otherwise unsuitable. Mar 8 at 21:46
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    @CodyGray: This is where the waffle lies. I don't see libraries as tools since they are adding functionality to the software I'm writing. As in, I view a library like requests in Python as something completely orthogonal to something like PyCharm. Historically we've never really explained or offered an explanation to someone's environment or what they have installed or configured (or how they've configured it) unless it resulted in a specific and reproducible programming issue.
    – Makoto
    Mar 8 at 22:18
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    @CodyGray: In this case, the right people to reproduce it needed to have the right environment and the right software. I could see a lot of people guessing about this. It raises the question, does it really make sense for the Stack Overflow community to answer a question on if a library would work on someone's specific machine? Wouldn't that be better for the actual library maintainers? Like I said, it's a waffle but I've seen the coin flip more on the side I represent than the other one.
    – Makoto
    Mar 8 at 22:19
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    I mean, I like waffles, but this one is bad. Something adding functionality to the software you're writing isn't a tool? That's an overly restrictive definition of tool. When writing software based on it, aren't you using the library as a tool? I really don't get it. I mean, I get that a library is different from an IDE, obviously, but I don't get why questions about one should be on-topic, whereas questions about the other shouldn't be. You've never had a problem with an IDE only on a specific machine? I guess you've never used Visual Studio... Mar 9 at 7:09
  • "Tools don't tend to change that rapidly" - consider browser version bumps or the forced Windows updates
    – prusswan
    Mar 9 at 14:44
  • @CodyGray: I don't really view my definition of "tool" is that restrictive. How I'm writing the code is different from what comprises the code. The tool I use to write the code could be vim or ed - that's different from what the tool contains, be it requests, CherryPy or some unholy thing cobbled together with exec and wget. Like I said, I tend to waffle on this and I have seen the coin flip more on disallowing these kinds of questions, but maybe some clarity would help - do you see it as on-topic for Stack Overflow to provide support for some library's configuration?
    – Makoto
    Mar 9 at 16:52
  • @prusswan: A browser isn't a tool, it's an environment. There's like twenty different flavors of WebKit that run on mobile devices, and if you pull the short straw out of the hat - and there are a lot of short straws - you're going to be in a lot of pain. That's different from the fact that you're using some IDE or toolkit to attach to your phone to debug why this variant of WebKit from X vendor decided to remove this super standard CSS feature which makes your website look like bunk.
    – Makoto
    Mar 9 at 16:58
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    It is a "tool" for many things, including browsing content on this very site. A tool is merely a means to an end, and ends are many.
    – prusswan
    Mar 9 at 17:43
  • @Makoto I get the analogy about libraries not being tools; they are more like accessories that are used with tools. However, I would still consider tool accessories a subset of the broader tool category.
    – TylerH
    Mar 10 at 14:35
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Questions about the use of tools and libraries for programming are on-topic. When it comes to installation of such tools and libraries, then:

  • If the problems are the same as you may encounter when installing any program, not necessarily related to programming, then it is off-topic. This includes things like: administrator rights, anti-virus issues, storage media problems, OS-specific issues not related to programming.

  • If the installation problem can only reasonably be answered by a programmer, then it is on-topic. Such as "I installed tool/library x, but after compiling I get these errors..."

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    This is incorrect. Your conditions require that one already knows the answer to the question (i.e., the root cause of the problem(s) and how they can be resolved) in order to determine topicality. That doesn't work; the person who asks a question needs to be able to determine whether the question is on-topic here prima facie, without knowing anything about the answer to the question. Even if the root cause of the problem is administrator rights, a failing storage media,. or OS misconfiguration, questions about programming tools are on-topic for Stack Overflow. Mar 9 at 7:56
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    @CodyGray You seem to miss the point that a programmer is expected to have basic computer knowledge as a mandatory prerequisite. Yeah it's a bit subjective where to draw the line between basic problems and advanced problems, but for example someone who cannot install a simple program on a PC or perform a file search on a computer, without asking for help, is by definition not a programmer since they lack the prerequisites they need to know before learning programming. This being a site for enthusiast and professional programmers.
    – Lundin
    Mar 9 at 8:04
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    That point (and your expectations in general) is irrelevant to what is on-topic for Stack Overflow. A programmer is expected to know what a variable is, too, but that question would be on-topic for Stack Overflow because there is no minimum knowledge requirement to ask a question here. Mar 9 at 8:54
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    @CodyGray We've had that discussion before and there always was a minimum knowledge requirement. Since a site for enthusiast and professional programmers would need to define "programmer" as someone who at least knows the very basics of at least one programming language. This is not a site where non-programmers can ask questions to programmers or interview programmers about what programming is like; I have no idea what that misconception is coming from.
    – Lundin
    Mar 9 at 9:17
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    There never was. That never existed as site policy. Certain users decided that it would be cool if it did, and they acted as if it did, but it didn't, and it doesn't. You can be an enthusiast without knowing the basics of any programming language, and you can still come here to ask questions about that programming language. (I know this first-hand, because I joined the site without knowing a single thing about programming aside from having a desire to learn it, which I used to the site to help me achieve. So telling me that such policy has always existed is, well, honestly, complete nonsense.) Mar 9 at 9:54
  • No, of course you cannot use this site to interview programmers or ask what programming is like. That has nothing to do with a minimum knowledge requirement and everything to do with the questions not being specifically about programming. Mar 9 at 9:56
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    @CodyGray Again (I don't know how many times I have to link this) there was a close reason explicitly worded as "Questions must demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved" which was removed in 2014 meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252585/….
    – Lundin
    Mar 9 at 10:08
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    @CodyGray "You can be an enthusiast without knowing the basics of any programming language" Sure, but you cannot be an enthusiast programmer without knowing the basics. This isn't a site for enthusiastic people in general. Enthusistic chefs, car mechanics or youtubers cannot ask questions here. Only enthusiast programmers can.
    – Lundin
    Mar 9 at 10:10
  • @CodyGray As for interviewing a programmer, typing some random gibberish in a source file without reading chapter 1 in a book about the programming language, but instead asking here, is exactly that: an interview by someone who doesn't know a thing about programming language x, asking people what programming language x is like. We get these kind of questions all the time.
    – Lundin
    Mar 9 at 10:12
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    Not knowing that a particular library must be installed with admin rights is not lacking minimal knowledge. Not knowing that a vague, arcane GCC error means that your architecture isn't supported is not lacking minimal knowledge. Not realizing that some strange interaction with a tool is caused by an antivirus misbehaving is not lacking minimal knowledge. Not realizing that your IDE is showing an unclear error due to storage media problems is not lacking minimal knowledge. Not realizing that an incompatibility with an OS upgrade caused a build tool to fail is not lacking minimal knowledge.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Mar 9 at 11:54
  • Lacking minimal knowledge, in a way that's not covered by "Needs more focus" is stuff like not understanding how imperative languages execute commands in sequence and branch with logic, not understanding the concept of a loop, etc. The emphasis is supposed to be on minimal. "typing some random gibberish in a source file without reading chapter 1 in a book about the programming language, but instead asking here," as you say, certainly qualifies. But that's not at all what we're talking about here.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Mar 9 at 12:07
  • I don't get why this answer is receiving flack. It seems to be clearly talking about the problems instead of solutions; people should know the problem when asking about it. We don't want to talk about boats either, even if the asker does not yet know how to fix their leaking boat on which they do their programming. Mar 10 at 14:18
  • @Lundin The meta thread you link above states that the 'lacks minimal understanding' close reason was intended for homework / assignment dumps lacking any clear understanding of the question". That is a very narrow field of use and not the same as lacking minimal understanding of how computers work or how to interact with their operating system UIs. It was designed for people who have an 'intro to coding' level of knowledge asking how to complete complex, in-depth programming tasks that were beyond their understanding.
    – TylerH
    Mar 10 at 14:52

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