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A question I submitted was edited by another user removing an explanatory first paragraph of the post. I didn't care for the edit, and I rolled it back, only to see it re-applied shortly by the same user. I rolled it back again, and then flagged my question requesting moderator review.

Shortly after the flag, a moderator re-applied the rolled-back edit, stating that the deleted paragraph was "meta commentary"; he characterized it as "noise" that "did not belong". I have brought my question here because I now have a difference of opinion with the moderator.

Pardon me if I'm being controversial, but it strikes me as largely a matter of opinion whether or not a passage is "noise". The site provides a "rollback button" in the edit history, and I presume this is in recognition of the fact that there may be differences of opinion on an edit. The original editor was not a moderator, and from his profile I assumed he was an over-zealous user. As I understood the system here, I am not compelled to accept a user's edit to a question that I prepared. Likewise, any user has the option to downvote a question if they feel it's poorly written; i.e. let the voters decide. This was my understanding of the rules of the site here.

I believed the controversial first paragraph provided information that had a bearing on my question, and would provide background to improve the odds of getting a good answer. The paragraph was added to address a warning I received from the site's auto-checker; a warning that my question would likely be closed because of the Title.

The controversial edit: enter image description here

An ironic epilogue:

My question had no downvotes when this (unintentionally) controversial post was made here on Meta ~ 21 hours ago. Since then, it has been "improved" by a variety of users and moderators, and at last count the question has received 8 downvotes, and 3 upvotes. One might wonder about the meanings in this sequence of events.

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    I also consider that portion as meta-commentary or "fluff" because it isn't relevant at all to the problem or to the question being asked. It doesn't help at all in getting your question answered, which is what this site is all about, getting answers. Future readers don't need to know about your interaction with the site's auto-checker when you posted the question. If you really want to mention that meta-commentary, you can include it in the comments section... but note that comments that are/become irrelevant can also be deleted. Commented Dec 26, 2022 at 23:56
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    Can you please clarify if you are looking to appeal for the specific change (I've added it to the post) or for general policy? Those are two very different questions and require different information added to the post: for specific one you need to add explanation why that sentence is related to the question, for general policy one question should focus less on specific edit (and definitely should not point to specific user(s)). Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:03
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    Related on meta.SE : Can I prevent others from editing my question? Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:03
  • @GinoMempin: 1. I put the background in there to explain the Subject I used. I did this because the auto-checker told me my question would likely be closed because of the Title. I was simply trying to explain to readers that I couldn't think of a better summary/title... I added this background to improve my odds of actually getting an answer. Does that not make sense?? 2. I don't think the paragraph removed from my Question is similar in any way to the Question in your link. Is that what you meant to imply?
    – user5395338
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:24
  • @AlexeiLevenkov: I'm not questioning policy, but the specific edit that was made. As explanation, I'll repeat what I've posted earlier: 1. I added this because the auto-checker warned my question would likely be closed because of the Title. I was simply trying to explain to readers that, due to my lack of knowledge, I was unable to formulate a better summary/title. I did try! I added the background as explanation to readers, and to improve my odds of actually getting an answer. 2. I feel the question of relevancy in this case boils down to opinion - not objective fact.
    – user5395338
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:40
  • @AlexeiLevenkov: And BTW, that "fluff" may have helped... I got 3 excellent answers.
    – user5395338
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:43
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    @Seamus No, I'm not implying it's the same kind of fluff. Sorry, didn't clarify why I linked that post. See the explanations in the answers, such as "Like Wikipedia, this site is collaboratively edited. If you are not comfortable with the idea of your posts being edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you.". Stop thinking that you are being censored. Instead think that editors are also helping you get answers by cleaning-up your question. (At least that's what I always try to do.) Trusted users know what makes a good question, and deem that paragraph as unnecessary. Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:44
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    "I got 3 excellent answers." -Two of those answers were posted at the time that text wasn't part of your question.
    – Ivar
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:58
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    "that "fluff" may have helped", that's roughly like saying my pet rock has kept away the ghosts at night. One likely has nothing to do with the other. It most certainly doesn't matter at all now, so it should be removed. Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 0:58
  • @GinoMempin: I'm very comfortable with the idea of collaborative editing, and I'll refer you to some of the other SE sites I use for proof of that. I've been a SE user for nearly five years now, and I agree that editing is generally useful in improving quality. But in this case, I don't. But I will say that I was a bit "put off" by the user E_net4 the comment flagger because that user's handle and commentary in the edit history struck me as assuming a censurous manner. I think site policy gives me the latitude to reject edits I do not agree with.
    – user5395338
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 1:04
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    @Seamus I've updated the post to clarify that you are not looking for a policy but appealing the specific edit. I still don't understand how "I added this because the auto-checker warned my question would likely be closed because of the Title" is related to binary representation of integers, but that is your explanation. (I can't see any value of that paragraph about your writing skill in the SO question - you may want to clarify the relationship... and at very least avoid defending "thanks for your patience" part). Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 1:05
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    ..Does that not make sense?.. Not to me. Once the reader gets past the title and starts reading the question you've already surmounted that hurdle. Now that you have their attention you need to get them the information they need so their brain can say "Oh yes, I know that problem and have the answer". But instead you're not talking about your problem at all. The editor's goal is to improve the question and thus improve the site, but I think they were also doing you a favor. Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 1:14
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    As you can see, it could have perfectly been someone else doing that edit and adverting against bringing that meta-commentary back. I do not appreciate that attitude of yours, which is basically why I no longer argue with stubborn people like you at the main site, and after the first rollback or two I just flag the post for moderator attention.
    – E_net4
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 8:50
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    What you're describing in your most recent edit is the "Meta effect" - when a question is linked to from Meta, it receives a lot more attention (and subsequently, a lot more upvotes and/or downvotes) than it would have done otherwise. It's a well-established phenomenon, and pretty much unavoidable when you're posting about a specific question here.
    – F1Krazy
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 21:57
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    Some people might not like it, but editing posts to remove fluff is a common and appreciated practice. My point with the previous comment is that the OP's attitude was out of line, whereas the original behaviour of editing the question was not.
    – E_net4
    Commented Dec 28, 2022 at 8:50

2 Answers 2

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The paragraph does not add any information to the question and hence was correctly removed.

Discussion how you could not write better a title is not much different from explaining that "it rains today" or "your uncle bought a new car" - such topics are unlikely programming related, unlikely add details to the problem and hence should not be part of the question. Discussing why the title was flagged by some tool may be ok on meta (also there are plenty of "why the title of my post triggered warning" questions already). And finally "thanks for your patience" has no place in any of posts on SO or Meta.

Note that since everyone is expected to post only after their exhausted all resources and skills they have it means the OP can't improve the title or the post itself without external help. I don't see any reason to re-iterate it in the post. That text is very similar to "I searched everywhere", "I spend 10 days looking at that code" and other attempts to "show research effort".


As for policy on contested edits - it looks like everything happened exactly as recommended: unrelated text was removed by a regular user who also did rollback once (they could have also just flagged for mod attention instead of rollback), the OP flagged for mod attention on contested edit and later posted this question on meta do discuss if mod action was correct. The only minor improvement that could have been made is not to mention the user who made the edit by name in the question.

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Pardon me if I'm being controversial, but it strikes me as a matter of opinion whether or not a passage is "noise".

It is not. We have very stringent, specific standards for questions on Stack Overflow, because (hold on a second while I grab the megaphone for the N+1th time this month)

Stack Overflow is not a discussion forum.

We don't want your thanks, don't care about your experience as a programmer (or anything else that does not directly help understand the question), and will ruthlessly remove anything of the sort.

If I had more experience and knew a better way to phrase this question, then perhaps I wouldn't need to ask a question at all!

Quite possibly. That, indeed, makes the question you are trying to ask inherently not suitable for the site.

Again - as this is not a discussion forum, the purpose of questions here is to contribute to a knowledge base, not to address the issue in individual users' code. By creating a useful question, you help improve everyone else's future search results when they have a similar problem. That's why we want:

  1. Focused questions where the person asking has already put in the time to figure out specifically what is causing a problem, isolate the relevant code (if applicable), and identify (by observing and testing) exactly what it is doing versus what was expected. Where there is not yet any code because of not having any idea what to write, similarly: break the problem down into logical steps, figure out what part(s) is/are troublesome, and ask about that.

  2. Non-duplicate questions which - again - show the appropriate amount of research (including: looking on Stack Overflow for existing questions that are close enough, possibly using external search engines).

  3. Direct, clear questions that include a proper MRE - one which is truly minimal and decontextualized - and which can be easily understood by someone else who has the same problem (it is a good idea to include an explicit question, starting with a question word like "why" or "how", and ending with a question mark).

But moving on...

Frankly, there's a LOT more to do here

The edit applied to your question was honestly quite light, and overlooked many things that should have been changed to meet site standards. I re-edited the question to attempt to fix these issues. It is now about half as long, even though all the code is still there. It is dramatically redone, but I frankly didn't go far enough - the context about the INA260 device is not actually relevant to the question, because you apparently are not having any difficulty connecting to the device and are not asking a question specific to the device (after all, there are countless other ways to obtain a twos-complement value).

Notably, I removed the second bullet-point question entirely, because we want one question at a time, and because it was not really coherent anyway. (There is not any way to look at any data in a vacuum, and determine how it was intended to be interpreted. You can look at metadata or documentation; or you can try interpreting it in various ways and seeing if the results make sense. But bytes are bytes.)

Having done so, I think I have fixed the issue of Needs More Focus (there is one outstanding close vote for this reason), but it seems very likely that this question is simply a duplicate. The most obvious thing to try in this situation is to simply search the site for twos complement, which pulls up many useful results such as What is “2's Complement”?. We can filter the results to questions only and sort by score. Since we are wondering about a general computer-science concept, we can try starting with Wikipedia. We can find results on other Stack Exchange network sites, even ones not directly related to programming. We can use an external search engine, which may point us at other Stack Overflow results, even if we don't directly ask for them.

But also, importantly, the question still seems to lack debugging details, or maybe even a question at all. Critically: you provided an example of the code working, and explained "but I 'got lucky' this time; what if I don't?" In order to have a question that merits a presence on Stack Overflow, it is important to have a reproducible problem. So:

  1. Did you try providing a negative value to the conversion code? (For example: did you try plugging the device in backwards so that it would measure negative current instead of positive? Did you try figuring out some example values that could be in rcvdata that would represent a negative current?) When you try this, do you actually get a wrong result? If the result is wrong, how is it wrong? Do you see a pattern to the wrong values? (If you have done this much study, you may well be able to answer the question yourself.)

  2. Did you try to isolate the code that you're wondering about? Again, you are already confident that you correctly read raw data from the device, right? So - again - that's not part of the question; start with the data already in rcvdata. That's a necessary part of offering a minimal, reproducible example - after all, how many of the people reading your question do you expect will have an INA260 i2c monitor and Pico microcontroller handy?

Postscript: some empathy

Look, I get it. Writing a really good question is hard. Stack Overflow, in its infinite wisdom, decided to take a task that is realistically about as hard as writing a good answer, and foist it upon the poor, untrained folks who... actually need it answered. Sort of. It often does take an expert to write a beginners' question in a way that actually makes sense (and is findable with a search engine; is properly decontextualized so as to be identifiable to others; and is clear, direct and well written in fluent English).

But none of that changes how the site actually works. It is, on the other hand, a big part of why answering one's own question is allowed and encouraged: so that experts have a brilliant way to share knowledge and get it into search engine results. It's a shame more experts don't understand this. In particular, it's a shame so few of them will "condescend" to write about introductory-level (I should instead say fundamental) topics. The not-actually-Einstein quote seems to apply here: "if you can't explain it simply you don't understand it well enough".

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