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After becoming aware through other users that questions might get deleted just because they do not fit into the mood of some (few) others I dug into my own answers and noticed a considerable number of deleted answers. The problem is specific to the regex tag.

Most of these questions are average questions, neither off topic nor of extremely low quality.

Below are some examples. You will need at least 10k reputation to view deleted content.

Please stop deleting content of other contributors for any personal reasons.

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  • 10
    I'm somewhat confused as to how some of those questions were voted to be deleted; Regex for letter and number combination for password has a positive score, and questions can't be voted to be when that is true.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 12:51
  • 19
    @Larnu a question can be deleted if it's closed. For 10k del-votes, you need to wait 3 days. For 20k del-votes, you can vote as soon as the question has score of -3. But in both cases a closed question can be delvoted after enough time has passed. The one you linked to was deleted while closed then reopened after deletion.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 12:55
  • 10
    Then I must admit, deleting content that is deemed helpful/useful does seem like incorrect behaviour.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 12:56
  • 41
    The regex tag suffers from icanhazcodez. These kinds of questions are routinely deleted in other tags. The custom nature of regexes precludes making a library of regexes from Stack Overflow posts; every one of them has unique requirements. The number of upvotes doesn't matter if the post is not on-topic. Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 12:59
  • 21
    That's just the usual friction between what Stack Overflow is and how it works versus how Regex questions work. (Almost) all those questions are just "gimme the regex" questions, because existing regexes don't match their specific requirements, which isn't quite surprising. There won't be any peace until either Stack Overflow changes its rules or when Regex moves to their own sub-site.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 13:13
  • 19
  • 29
    There's actually another alarming pattern that I only started noticing recently. That is, removing the [regex] tag from questions that are very clearly about regex especially when they get answered by other users. That's all I'm going to say.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 13:36
  • 14
    The same user again...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 14:07
  • 9
    @Tom "(Almost) all those questions are just "gimme the regex" questions, because existing regexes don't match their specific requirements" Doesn't this describe... literally all debugging questions?
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 14:16
  • 11
    Folks are suggesting about [regex] being a tag where every question is unique, but this seems to contradict the first example listed: it had a suitable duplicate, but you reopened it. Could you please comment on that?
    – E_net4
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 14:18
  • 15
    It does appear that you have a heavy stake in some of these questions, by answering them even though there were suitable duplicates. I do not condone swift delete-votes on questions where such is unwarranted, but if we are to put the moderation of the tag under scrutiny, I think we should not turn a blind eye to other bad patterns.
    – E_net4
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 14:27
  • 9
    @TylerH You know very well that not all questions are allowed when they don't match the goal of building a repository of questions actually usable to future readers. Regex questions and debugging questions are very specific and hardly usable to anyone else. I wasn't around when the "too localized" close reason was removed, but I'm sure there were compelling arguments why too localized questions are perfectly suitable to future visitors and not just more sand.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 15:17
  • 15
    @Tom A question doesn't have to be useful to future readers, it just has to be on-topic. If someone has a question about or problem with code that is objectively answerable, it is allowed, even if you may find it not useful or boring. Your comment that the "too localized" reason being removed just underscores my point.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 15:20
  • 6
    @TylerH "even if you may find it not useful or boring" Only "boring"? Pretty weak attempt of a strawman argument. But since you don't seem to understand what I wrote here, I can make it a bit more clear: I stated why I think regex questions will always cause friction in the moderation and I agreed with you that debugging question fall in the same category. I don't campaign for any rule changes, I don't vote to close any of those question, so what I may find "useful or boring" is completely irrelevant in this matter.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 15:41
  • 4
    @TylerH "Doesn't this describe... literally all debugging questions?" Yes, and they should be closed and deleted too. The close-reason guidance is misleading. If you actually take the steps described to create a MRE (emphasis on M), identify exactly what confuses you as the OP and ask a coherent question, it isn't a debugging question any more. Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 20:55

3 Answers 3

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I said earlier that this smelled funny. Going to be honest with you - this downright reeks.

So let's get some things out the way, shall we?

First, a delete vote is not a super downvote. Deletion should be reserved for those things that are truly unsalvageable and are so radioactive that the only way to save the rest of us would be to remove it from the site.

...and yet these questions were still deleted despite them having a positive score (which is a wtf).

The timeline of this question suggests that it was intentionally voted down to qualify for deletion.

https://stackoverflow.com/posts/72594776/timeline?filter=WithVoteSummaries

Second - the fact that there's the same consistent couple of people who are deleting this suggests to me that there's some kind of voting fraud happening here. If this were a coincidence and they happened to bump into each other every now and again, I wouldn't think anything of it. But almost every question here?? Really?? Someone needs to look into this.

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    If a small group of users are watching the same tag, their continued involvement with that tag can't be helped, I have a bigger problem with questions marked as a duplicate being deleted. Should a question that was marked as a duplicate have been answered, I have my thoughts on that, and would act accordingly with my vote if the questions had not already been deleted. Manipulating a question so a question can be deleted, give everyone with the delete vote privilege, a bad name. My main community, has a small group of users who submit wet noodle answers, and I vote accordingly on those answers. Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:15
  • 21
    “the fact that there's the same consistent couple of people who are deleting this suggests to me that there's some kind of voting fraud happening here.” I am seriously uncomfortable with this line of reasoning. We’re talking about questions spanning 7 years! You would have no problem finding multiple times the number of „group votes“ for me over that time span - with people I have never talked about voting ever. If that is enough to be seen as suspicious… Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:19
  • 13
    Some notes: 1. Wiktor shared his reason for deleting questions here, and they don't seem like use as a "super downvote". As far as I saw, those questions met one of the criteria. 2. It's far from official guidance that deletion is for the worst of the worst. Quoting Shog9 (then CM) here, "a closed question should be deleted when there's no chance that it should ever be reopened.". 3. It's quite common there are few users in one tag that actively cast delete votes. I could be accused of the same fraud.
    – Erik A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:24
  • 3
    @MisterMiyagi: I'm only a mere mortal so I can only interpret what I am shown. My philosophy here is, there are surely more than two or so people floating around, deleting these questions. But why do they appear together in this capacity? That's what needs to be investigated.
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:25
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    Some people get to complain that they always find the same curators voting to close and leaving feedback on their questions. How is it any different that a specific set of users are active around this tag and curating questions in it roughly the same way?
    – E_net4
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:25
  • 3
    @ErikA: I mean, that "no chance that it should ever be reopened" rationale is already out the window at this point, isn't it? A decent number of those questions were reopened, so we have to ask in hindsight if deletion really was appropriate.
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:26
  • 6
    @Makoto Were they reopened appropriately, though? For most of these questions, I can see how the delete voters could think they'd never be eligible for reopening, even though they did in fact get reopened.
    – Erik A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:32
  • 3
    @Makoto „But why do they appear together in this capacity? That's what needs to be investigated.” What capacity? People have a couple thousand votes per year. Finding a dozen over more than half a decade can be anything from cherry picking over sheer luck to smoking guns. Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:40
  • 11
    It also speaks volumes how often people love to remove the objective path and switch to the emotional path instead. I guess it is easier to claim your question was "attacked" and you feel scared and how hostile everything is. Maybe a Stack Overflow fork which doesn't focus on the question but more on the feelings of every user would be in order?
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 21:37
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    @Tom: I would normally agree but every time I've heard people talk about the regex tag, I've heard nothing but horror stories. I like moderation, but maybe this tag is extra super moderated? Should we look into it?
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 22:01
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    @bobblebubble Feelings are unimportant when it comes to the question if a vote was correct or not. They just derail the discussion and won't help in finding a solution.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 22:02
  • 1
    @Makoto You can look into it, but like I said in my first comment (under the question), I don't think there will be solution which actually works and reduces the friction significantly. To fulfill the scope of Stack Overflow it is preferable to have a more general question and the moderation tools are there to work towards that (edit out fluff, require MREs, close as dupes etc.), but Regex questions are very specific in nature due to the specific use-cases and restrictions, so even "typical" moderation, like closing as dupe, can trigger heated discussions. I don't see how this can be solved.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 22:15
  • 3
    and yet these questions were still deleted despite them having a positive score — how are the two things even related? passers-by may cast upvotes for literally whatever reason. At the very least it'd be necessary to check the post history and see if there's recent votes, or otherwise votes cast a little while after the question was asked for that to play a role in considering deletion
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Nov 10, 2022 at 9:20
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    @Makoto: "should we look into it?" Please do. AFAICT, regex itself isn't the problem. But a certain user who isn't hard to find on stackoverflow.com/tags/regex/topusers might be. He's basically linked to every meta-question complaining about bad behaviors related to the regex tag. Commented Nov 10, 2022 at 16:04
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    @bobblebubble coordinated delete-voting is allowed (like is coordinated close-voting). SOCVR does it at least. As long as the question is effectively harmful () and needs to be gone ASAP. () These questions are in the grey zone, where they are not that harmful to be flagged, but also not useful to be left on the site for any longer. I often see blatantly off-topic questions to be closed very fast and shortly there after be deleted. Not sure if this applies to every regex question though...
    – Lino
    Commented Nov 11, 2022 at 7:43
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All "here are the requirements now gimme the regex" questions with no attempt to solve/understand the problem by the OP should get closed as too broad. If they get deleted or not from there is no big deal. This isn't a code-writing service, period.

And the other way around: questions where the OP did make an attempt to solve the problem and that aren't duplicates should not get closed or deleted.

As for answers to such questions: if you answer a question that is off-topic, has been asked hundred times before, or is unclear to the point where it actually can't be answered - tough luck, you have wasted your time. And also encouraged more of the same to be posted on the site - now this is a big problem.


Regarding the specific cases:

Is there a pattern here? Not really...

Well yeah, some recurring users are stringently casting delete votes on correctly closed questions. This isn't ideal, as these dupes might serve as "goal posts" for search engines etc. But on the other hand it's no big deal either since closed posts are most of the time not considered valuable.

What is unfortunate behavior is that if a new question is good and the duplicate targets are so-so, we should ideally let the question sit for a while in case new, better answers than those in the usual dupe target pops up. Gold badgers are expected to evaluate all posted answers in both posts before closing as duplicate. The best post should be used as duplicate target, which is not necessarily the oldest. If none of the answers are valuable and the question has been answered many times before, then just dupehammer away - that's exactly what the hammer is for.

There is also a pattern of people answering questions that should have been closed. If one isn't aware/can't find a duplicate but instead answering - that's not a problem. But if the question is a "gimme the regex", then answering instead of close voting is a problem.

Personally, I often also downvote answers to obvious duplicates, in case the answer was posted by someone with tons of rep and badges that really should know better. Like when they answered the very same question themselves last week - then it's obvious that they are just farming rep without care about the site's quality and moderation.

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    It seems disingenuous to use the phrasing "here are the requirements now gimme the regex" to refer to questions that don't actually use such phrasing. Also, are you confusing debugging question requirements, which include an attempt, with how-to question requirements, which don't?
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 16:27
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    @TylerH I was assuming that the reader would be able to do a bit of abstract thinking, naturally that isn't a quote taken from one of the questions... No, I'm not confusing anything, I thought "This isn't a code-writing service, period" was quite clear.
    – Lundin
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 16:30
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    it is a code writing service, if one thinks how to questions make it a code writing service.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 16:31
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    Regarding #1, also closed as a duplicate (question with over a million views that nearly exactly answers this question) and reopened by OP. Imho that question shouldn't have been reopened.
    – Erik A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 16:40
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    Appreciate that you took time investigating each question! I don't have a problem with duplicate status or downvotes, it is about deletion. Further I don't think that a question necessarily needs to include code (effort). It can still be/get a great question. Some of the most prominent: stackoverflow.com/questions/3512471, stackoverflow.com/questions/172303, stackoverflow.com/questions/46155, stackoverflow.com/questions/469913, stackoverflow.com/questions/161738,... just a few from the first page of top ranked regex questions. Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 16:51
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    @bobblebubble What is your point exactly? That Wiktor also answers questions that are duplicates of frequent issues and should've been deleted, so it should be fair game to everyone? I'd argue that if you notice this, you should mark these questions as duplicates and consider deleting them if they do not provide a valuable signpost (e.g. are asking for the exact same thing and likely will be found using the same search, or are unlikely to be found at all due to a poorly formulated problem)
    – Erik A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:07
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    @ErikA Most who participate in the regex tag know well what's going on. And yes, it's possible to do a "counter moderation". However I'm here for helping others, learning, having fun and spending a good time, not for quarreling and playing disturbing games. Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:32
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    @bobblebubble This is not about playing games or having fun, at least for me. It's about creating a lasting, valuable repository of knowledge, mainly for the users using search to find answers, and a bit for those asking questions as well. Cleaning up the questions and consolidating answers on one question is essential to that goal imo. It's not "counter moderation", just moderation. If there are duplicates, they should be closed as such, with the most appropriate target. If they provide no value at all, they should be deleted. Simple as that.
    – Erik A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:36
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    @ErikA I don't get why you are so focused on duplicates. I'm complaining about valid (average) questions that have been deleted (thrown into the garbage bin). There are guidelines on Stackoverflow when questions get deleted. None of the mentioned questions have imho been extremely offtopic or very low quality. Such aggressive behaviour of very few but powerful users in the regex tag is disturbing the process of building a "valuable respository of knowlege". Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 17:55
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    @bobblebubble And the guidance by a then community moderator shared here is: "a closed question should be deleted when there's no chance that it should ever be reopened". I get that these reasons are conflicting (hell, on the same post I even argued against deletion), but it is what it is, if these questions are duplicates, and are not of value as a signpost, there is plenty of precedence to say their deletion is valid
    – Erik A
    Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 18:00
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    "questions where the OP did make an attempt to solve the problem" I'm going to have to do my own post on this topic, but "attempts to solve the problem" often actively make the question worse. Commented Nov 9, 2022 at 20:58
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    Lack of effort on the question-asker side is not a reason for a closure. We close posts that cannot be answered or answering them wouldn't be in the best interest to the community. Closing posts just because you think the person asking the question is lazy is not in line with the goal of this site.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Nov 10, 2022 at 0:59
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    @KarlKnechtel I had this very same debate many times, most recently in comments here: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/417627/584518. Also note how the answer proposing a return of the close reason "The question must demonstrate a minimum of knowledge/research about the topic being discussed." received overwhelmingly clear community consensus currently sitting at 148 for, 17 against. The community very clearly agrees that this is/should be a valid reason to close questions on SO.
    – Lundin
    Commented Nov 10, 2022 at 7:51
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    @Joshua And since answering is the top priority here while creating a repository of "quality" Q/A is just a unimportant by-product no one needs to bother about maintainability, so we can continue producing the same answer over and over again. Having thousands of outdated answers is easier to maintain then just a few hundred, I agree.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 11, 2022 at 10:49
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    @Joshua There is a flood of almost identical, often beginner-level FAQ questions constantly hitting the site. The only persons who benefit from not closing them are the lazy kid who asked the question instead of doing basic research, and the rep farming crowd who only answer "low hanging fruit" with an obvious answer. The losers are programming professionals who try to find high quality technical information in the flood of crap, as well as the SO company who get a worse and less relevant product for each and every such post. And the Internet as whole, getting even more trash added to it.
    – Lundin
    Commented Nov 11, 2022 at 12:10
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Here's some tags with this problem that I know of, namely , , , , and a couple more. The problem in my own words: these tags have a handful of very prolific and enthusiast answerers who answer about anything that comes across.

These users are human code generators that aren't interested in helping build a sustainable community. All of those tags are one or two departing users away from becoming a graveyard full of unanswered questions. Those users are barely ever explaining things, they're just sitting with their LinqPad/Regex101/XMLSpy open, pasting any question they see and shaking an answer out within minutes.

Stack Overflow used to have a closevote that said "you don't appear to know what you're doing, go study some more". Ever since that vote option was removed, people have been saying that we don't close questions for lack of effort anymore. Yet the first link in the help center still goes to How much research effort is expected of Stack Overflow users?:

A lot. Asking a question on Stack Overflow should be the last step in your process for finding an answer — if the information that you need already exists, then you should be able to find it before asking.

You know what those answer-spewing users are doing? They're making earlier answers unfindable, and they're reinforcing the culture that it's okay to ask anything, no effort shown whatsoever. Besides that, we already don't have enough users to vet all answers as they're being posted, the last thing Stack Overflow needs is more unverified, copy-pasteable answers *. Often when I point out that a solution is not reusable or misses an edge case, the answer is "but that's not what OP asked". Oh, so you want to change the same pattern a hundred times for a hundred askers? Or do you want to write good code and explain how the user can tweak it?

For those voters, I'd say keep fighting the system and keep down- and closevoting however you like. For the answerers: either support your answer with enough explanation and links so that it can serve as a canonical duplicate answer for future, comparable questions, or go find one to use as a duplicate target instead of typing a new one because one variable name or one letter is different. For the rest of us: go add those tags to your ignore list and pretend they don't exist.


*: anecdote time: for the last year, I've made a sidestep from my regular dotnetting, and went back to the dark side for a while (PHP). Holy smokes is there a lot of insecure, incorrect code out there in answers, and even those answers get copy-pasted all over the place.

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    You're conflating two things here - deleting questions shortly after they're closed and users who answer questions all the time. They are separate things, although I could argue that one begets the other.
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 15:55
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    I agree the question is about the former, Makoto, but its title indicates that the OP here has no idea what the problem is, so I felt compelled to explain one vision thereon. If we didn't have that many questions that serve only one asker, we wouldn't have to close and delete that many. I myself hardly ever vote to delete questions though, so I'm not commenting on that.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 16:00
  • 1
    Also too, the very reason that the close reason was removed was because there were more clear reasons to use. Telling someone on a Q&A site that they don't know what they're doing when they ask a question is...kinda obvious, given that they're asking, y'know. It's like if your uncle asks Google how to carve a turkey, and you give him grief for looking it up in the first place. It's just...backwards to me.
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 16:01
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    The way I have always used and understood that close vote is between "unclear what you're asking" and "too broad", meaning: this question isn't answerable without writing half a blog post, or it doesn't look like you know what you're asking about, so you're not going to understand the answers and you are going to follow up with more questions instead of doing research. The latter was only clear after interacting with the OP, either in comments or through earlier questions. The same screams from many regex questions: "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas".
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 16:07
  • 1
    Trying nothing isn't a close reason. It's a reason to downvote, sure. But it's not a close reason. If you find a duplicate, that's great - that can be attached to the question you've downvoted. But then it's also not a reason to delete that question, either. You are conflating two different things here although the correlation to causation pipeline is a lot more crystal clear...
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 16:09
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    @Makoto I know that's not a reason to close-vote. All I was trying to do with my answer is to give an explanation of why we see such behavior. And I'm saying people should keep fighting the system by using their votes as they see fit, because the askers and answerers don't play by the rules either. I dare say that every regex and every Git question has been asked, people just like typing new answers more than maintaining old, existing ones.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 16:31
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    Homework tags, like R (now 470,550 questions) and Pandas (now 265,239 questions), probably belong in that list. There may even be payment behind the scenes which drives this, not just reputation points. Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 17:55
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    I suspect there are homework generators which make each homework assignment unique, perhaps even for each individual student (to avoid cheating). Thus a whole industry sprung up, with Stack Overflow being part of the loop. Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 18:06
  • @Peter I don't visit those tags often enough to confirm whether you're right or not, but I believe you.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 20:42
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    @CodeCaster: No? I know for a fact that I asked a particularly unique Git question back in 2017. To then suggest that "every question" about either Git or Regex has having been answered just out-of-hand is incredibly short-sighted and wrong. But this does belie the problem. There is a culture of users who will intentionally find an excuse to close a question because, as you put it, they're not "playing by the rules". This is not the way this is meant to be done.
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 23:06
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    @Makoto of course that was an exaggeration, but every day the same couple of questions get asked and answered over and over again. I think knowledgeable people are wasting their time by repeatedly answering the same questions, and they're making the site worse by adding more answers that will never be reviewed nor found again because of their sheer number. I understand closevoting those is not the way, but dropping the community that built your site and making it easier to post stuff and harder to get rid of it is also not the way to run a site, so again, I understand why it happens.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Nov 12, 2022 at 23:42

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