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(Update: apparently the decline message was a canned response, thanks @Cerbrus for helping me see this from the moderator perspective. Apparently people waste moderator time asking for non-useful comments to be restored; I hadn't considered the possibility that my flag could look like such a request to a moderator. I assumed it was obvious that deleted comments should get undeleted if someone asked, because comments get over-zealously deleted all the time. In hindsight my flag could have made a clearer argument for undeletion. But I still stand by the position that comments can be useful, and are better than nothing for info that people haven't found the time or energy to fit into the answer proper.)

(I also didn't realize that the deleted comments had been moved to chat, just a glitch in the script also deleted the moved-to-chat comment. So there was never a moderator intent to fully delete them. Thanks to Martijn restoring that comment; I've updated my answer to link the chat transcript. If I have time at some point, I might add a section to the answer summarizing the discussion.)


My answer on Is there a way to "unfetch" a cache line? says "See discussion in comments: this might perform significantly worse. ..." in bold. I wrote it in 2018, and don't still remember what the comments said exactly, but I assume the comments under the answer were interesting enough for me to write in bold that readers should have a look at them. And I assume they're still relevant now.

I happened to look at that answer again while searching for something else the other day, and noticed that there are no comments under it now. Obviously that's not good, there was useful info there for future readers. So I flagged for a moderator to restore them:

Please restore comments under this answer that says "see discussion in comments" in bold. I don't recall what that comments were, but I assume when I wrote it that I thought they were valuable

The flag was declined with an utterly unhelpful message, in terms of doing something about the situation now with the comments already gone. I said in the flag I don't remember what was in them, so I can't now add them to my answer.

declined - Comments aren't for extended discussions. If it's important, extend your answer.

Which is true, but it didn't happen at the time, due to limits on the amount of time & effort I was willing to put into that answer then. I know comments are nominally ephemeral, but usually useful comments don't get nuked, especially on obscure answers. (They do on popular canonical answers where new comments tend to accumulate over time).

Am I supposed to go digging on archive.org to see if I can find a copy of the page from before the deletion?


This "your ball is in my yard now and you can't have it back" attitude is not something I'm ok with. I hope that wasn't the intent behind the phrasing of the decline, but that's how it comes across to me. That's part of why I'm bringing this to meta.

But also because the comments shouldn't have been deleted in the first place. There's just no need for it. Whoever flagged them "no longer needed" was wrong, because the answer hadn't yet been updated to contain that info, and it was highly relevant (IIRC) to the question, and to most future readers who found the answer useful.

If they'd submitted an edit to add a new section that covers whatever had been discussed in comments, that would have been good. (As long as it wasn't just a blockquote of all the comments; at that point it would be better to leave them as comments). Then, once the edit had been accepted, the comments would no longer be needed. When the answer says in bold to see comments, that's a textbook case of comments that are still needed.


I know I'm not the only person who thinks Stack Overflow's comment policy of being subject to arbitrary deletion at any time is not good, for example @zwol has expressed this multiple times on meta. I'm ok with that being a possibility, as long as the judgment is made by reasonable humans who don't delete useful comments that are directly relevant to the answer, only off topic or chatty stuff like "I'll edit when I get back from my Ultimate frisbee game :)".

The comments on that one answer aren't that important in the grand scheme of things, but the general principle here is a huge deal to me. Getting useful comments moved to chat is bad enough (many people will skim at least the high-voted comments to see if there's something interesting to them, but chat loses voting, and almost nobody opens it in the first place). But deleting and refusing to restore when it's pointed out that they were useful is way way beyond that. To me, that shows total disregard for Stack Overflow being a repository of useful information.

There are only so many hours in a day, and we don't always have time and energy to include everything commenters have to add. Comments make useful footnotes. This works great unless/until people come along and delete comments just because they can, without care for them being relevant and useful. Everything that's directly relevant to answering the question should be in the answer, and usually is, but not everything is perfect.


If even useful comments are at real risk of deletion, I guess every time I see an old answer with anything wrong with it (especially by an inactive user), I should just edit it as well as / instead of commenting, despite "intent" of the author? e.g. changing code or adding sections explaining why something earlier in the answer is actually not a good idea? That seems messier and way more intrusive, but apparently if we don't want our efforts to help future readers to vanish because someone randomly pressed a button, we need to make sure everything helpful is in answers.

I often add a comment to warn future readers of a possible problem or downside with an old answer, often to explain why (part of) it is wrong if I downvoted. Because editing "this answer is wrong" into an answer doesn't seem good, nor does deleting whole paragraphs. (If the answer has previous upvotes, one downvote won't make its score negative, so won't signal to future readers that it's not fully correct.)

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    "This "your ball is in my yard now and you can't have it back" attitude is not something I'm ok with." I think you're severely overestimating this "attitude", and taking this way too personally. That flag response you got was just a default message, to what on first sight looks like a dime-a-dozen "I don't want my comments deleted" flag. You could've written this as a request to restore the comment, or you could've used a well worded custom flag, and that would've been problem solved. Instead, there's this (argumentative) wall of text...
    – Cerbrus
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:40
  • 2
    @Cerbrus: I think the attitude towards deleting useful comments on Stack Overflow is bad, and worth arguing against. This flag-decline was motivation to say something about it. And why would I try raising another flag? It was already declined once, for reasons that make no sense to me. Apparently some moderator is against having useful comments. I didn't know comments had been moved to chat and there was just one link to restore. I don't know what different phrasing would get a different response (without the benefit of your suggestion on how it might have looked to a mod). Aug 23, 2022 at 13:49
  • 2
    How can you claim the comments should not have been deleted because they were still useful, and at the same time not know what they said? If you don't remember what the comments said, you can't argue they were still useful, no matter how many reminders you left yourself. If the comments were truly that useful, you would've ostensibly added the relevant info to the question at the time instead of adding a note that said "see comments".
    – TylerH
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:51
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    @Cerbrus: I thought it was totally obvious that useful comments should be restored, and as a high-rep user my opinion would be somewhat trusted. So just being told I should have extended my answer seemed very rude. Aug 23, 2022 at 13:52
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    Again, you're taking this waaaaaaaay too personally. Mods handle way too many flags to care about something at irrelevant as rep. Nobody is being rude, it's just a default message.
    – Cerbrus
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:52
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    @TylerH: Like I explained in this question: In 2018, hours after the answer was posted, I edited it to say "see discussion in comments...", and put that in bold. Obviously at the time I thought the comments were useful and relevant. My 2022 self trusted the opinion of my 2018 self, and assumed the comments were still useful and relevant. Aug 23, 2022 at 13:53
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    "after the answer was posted, I edited it to say "see discussion in comments..."" Why would you do that when you know that comments can and do get deleted..? Why didn't you add the information from the comments to the answer?
    – Thom A
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:54
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    If you disagree with how something works on SO/SE, suggest a better alternative, and convince readers of why it's better. Don't rant about how the status quo is so bad. Don't argue, don't fight. That'll only make your suggestion seem weaker.
    – Cerbrus
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:55
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    @Cerbrus: I also didn't know it was a default message, that makes it significantly less bad in hindsight. But yes, I really was upset by it. Not so much personally, but in terms of how can a moderator be that unhelpful, as well as the general attitude toward deletion of useful comments. I think it's obvious what I'm suggesting: apply judgement and don't delete useful comments, especially under low-traffic posts. Maybe sometime later when I'm not still mad, I'll post about it in general. Aug 23, 2022 at 13:57
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    @Larnu: I already spend lots of time every day contributing to Stack Overflow. I simply don't have the time or motivation to make every answer perfect. I do the best I can and have the energy for. Sometimes that means referring people to comments, under the assumption that highly useful ones won't be deleted for no good reason, especially if an answer points out that they're useful. If you're unhappy with the amount of effort I put into my answers, do you want to pay me to spend even more time on them? No, didn't think so. Aug 23, 2022 at 13:59
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    And the moderators have a lot of flags to work through, @PeterCordes . You can't expect them to check the answer(s) on a question to see if they are referencing a comment without quoting when handing a "no longer needed" flag. Especially so if you don't feel that you have the time to add those comments to make a answer (more) useful; both you and they are volunteers.
    – Thom A
    Aug 23, 2022 at 14:01
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    @PeterCordes I must point out that you switched from "useful" to "interesting" there, those are not the same thing.
    – Gimby
    Aug 23, 2022 at 14:43
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    That this post has received any upvotes at all is likely only due to said deference (with, I admit, perhaps a couple users who agree comments should not be deleted the way they are Stack Overflow); this is a classic example of "user comes to Meta to rail against mods for doing some bog-standard action" that normally just gets dupehammered and downvoted into oblivion.
    – TylerH
    Aug 23, 2022 at 16:05
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    @PeterCordes The argument is clear, it's just not persuasive, because it's wrong. In 2018 there were useful comments, but you didn't bother specifying what was useful about them. There's no way for us to know if a deleted comment was useful in a time- or other context-specific manner. Just because your answer still says "check the comments" doesn't mean those comments were wrongly-deleted, it just means you haven't bothered updating your answer to reflect the fact the comments were deleted.
    – TylerH
    Aug 23, 2022 at 16:07
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    So by your own admission you completely overreacted to a mundane flag rejection, and you continue to defend that overreaction... You could also just own up to it and apologize.
    – Cerbrus
    Aug 23, 2022 at 20:35

1 Answer 1

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The comment thread, consisting of 27 comments, was moved to chat.

Unfortunately, the script that added the moderator comment pointing to the chat removed not only the existing comments, but also the comment pointing to the chat. Not a useful outcome.

I've restored that comment now, so you can at least see the chat transcript. Use it to update your answer!

Comments are and always have been ephemeral, and subject to deletion without warning. We want to keep questions and their answers, not comments, so please don't count on comments existing forever.

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    Thanks, already updated my answer to include the chat link. I hate that highly useful comments get moved to chat in the first place, mere hours after the answer was posted, and an hour after I edited my answer to tell future readers to have a look. (And the OP of the question specifically commented that the discussion had been useful.) Aug 23, 2022 at 13:32
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    We've had this pattern happen before: comments moved to chat, and then after a while some "no longer needed" votes build up on the chat link and it gets deleted. Previously moderators have been willing to restore the "moved to chat" link, which is better than nothing, and another comment can summarize why it was worth looking at. Your answer doesn't address the unhelpfulness of the moderator response in this case. Aug 23, 2022 at 13:33
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    @PeterCordes: again, comments are ephemeral. Useful or not, comments get deleted all the time. Don't count on them sticking around. If there is useful info in them, put that info in the answer.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:34
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    @PeterCordes: I can't comment on the moderator action as I wasn't involved with that. I'll give the moderator a heads-up.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:34
  • What good are comments, then, if even useful ones on obscure questions actually are going to get deleted arbitrarily? Of course it's better to have more details in answers, and I aspire to that, but how does destroying actually useful info help anyone? As motivation to spend even more time editing answers? I do put effort into maintaining my answers, but there's only so much you can stuff into them without getting over-crowded. And like I said, only so much time / effort in a day. I don't mind the "police state" policy for comments (automatically guilty) as long as it's not over-enforced. Aug 23, 2022 at 13:42
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    You could always link to the chat in your answer, if you don't want the link to be removed should the the comment get flagged @PeterCordes . But adding the actual content of the chat to the/an answer would be the real solution still, especially if the information is as important as you imply. In my honest opinion, if the information isn't important enough for you to consider adding it to an answer, then it isn't that important and if the link is lost it doesn't matter.
    – Thom A
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:43
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    @PeterCordes: the intent with moving the comments to chat was to not just delete them. That the link to the chat was removed too was unfortunate, that's been reinstated now. Note that the moderators are human too, and volunteers to boot. Mistakes happen, that's been rectified now.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:44
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    Was the procedure taken here done in a new/unusual way? Did Sam use a custom script that had recently been tweaked, for example? I feel like usually the moderator comment about moving stuff to chat doesn't get deleted.
    – TylerH
    Aug 23, 2022 at 13:56
  • @Larnu: No, I couldn't have added the chat link to my answer. I do in fact do that sometimes when I see a comments-moved-to-chat comment. But Martijn is saying that the moved-to-chat comment got deleted at the same time as the comments that got moved to chat (e.g. add comment then delete-all-comments, instead of the other order). So I never got a notification of a new comment on that answer. Not until Martijn restored the 2018 comment just now was I able to add the chat link to my answer. That's why the situation looked so bad to me before posting this meta question. Aug 23, 2022 at 14:11
  • The comment has been restored, @PeterCordes , so what's stopping you doing it now...? I wasn't talking in past tense.
    – Thom A
    Aug 23, 2022 at 14:13
  • @Larnu: I did do that within 1 minute of Martijn's first comment under my meta question, posted within a minute of me posting this meta question. stackoverflow.com/posts/51344347/revisions . So I assumed you were talking about at the time, in 2018. Aug 23, 2022 at 14:13
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    Ok, great! But still, putting the actual information in the answer would be far better.
    – Thom A
    Aug 23, 2022 at 14:14
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    @Larnu: Of course it would, we all agree with that. That's not at all the point. It's a lot of work to distill a discussion into a form that's suitable for being part of an answer. Especially when the answer and the subject matter isn't still fresh in ones' mind, being 4 years old, since it didn't happen at the time. People continuing to tell me I should have edited everything from comments into the answer at the time just feels like victim-blaming. Nobody has time to be perfect, so there will always be comments that people haven't gotten around to including in answers, which have value. Aug 23, 2022 at 14:42
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    "Nobody has time to be perfect" And yet you blamed the moderator for not being "perfect" here, @PeterCordes , as they didn't read your answer when dealing with a flag on the comments and that when they took action they (presumably) did the operations in the wrong order due to being human. This was, at best a human error, and at worse a problem not caused by the moderator. I, and others, aren't victim blaming (in my opinion), but it was an avoidable problem which you could have handled; blaming a moderator for being human due your own inactions isn't "fair" in my opinion.
    – Thom A
    Aug 23, 2022 at 14:47
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    @PeterCordes: the comments were removed in response to an automatic flag, raised when there are a lot of comments on a post.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Aug 23, 2022 at 16:28

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