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I was a little startled yesterday when in a comment to a short-lived grumblepost on SO Meta, another member reflected that I should consider being a little more grateful to someone who had duped my post, because they had "spent time" doing so.

Really?

I think it's important to understand that some people (I'm sure I'm not the only one) see duping as a specific kind of vandalism which renders a post un-answerable and un-commentable.

So here's a practical suggestion, made in good faith:

In a similar way to when Edits are made, the OP is asked to verify or rollback the Edits, make it so that before duping the post, the duper is obliged to ask the OP if their dupe is welcome or not.

Thanks.


The bottom line from all of this (which is afforded so little respect back here in SO Meta, although is more widely observed out there on SO proper) is that the post is the OP's post.

Other members are free (and welcome) to answer and comment, if they wish to, of course, But it's not anyone else's to set fire to, stamp on, destroy etc.

It feels pretty intolerable sometimes (to me, but again, I'm sure I'm not the only one) that someone else can simply come along and damage or break a post that a member has invested time and effort and research into and posted references and written working code examples for etc.

So, no, I don't think generally we should be grateful for that someone else putting time into their attempts to derail work and effort, freely volunteered by other members of SO.

If some members here want to spend their time administrating other members like little authoritarians, that's their business - but I'm pretty persuaded that none of that kind of activity should take precedence over that of dedicated members who believe in SO and who spend their time actually contributing questions and answers to build the collective knowledge on SO.

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    "a specific kind of vandalism" - What? -- "which renders a post ... un-commentable" - ? No it doesn't. May 17, 2022 at 14:02
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    This already happens. When a user votes to close a question as a duplicate, a comment is added: "Does this answer your question? <link to duplicate>". The message on a duplicate also affords the OP an opportunity to accept the duplicate question. May 17, 2022 at 14:02
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    "is that the post is the OP's post" - nope, it is a contribution to the knowledge repository licensed to the community as per the CC-BY-SA license terms. The only thing that "belongs" to the author of the post is revision 1. May 17, 2022 at 14:04
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    I am also going to reiterate my comment on your previous post: this post will benefit from the removal of passive-agressive tone towards duplicate closure and focus on the problem instead. Also please avoid vaguely veiled insults towards fellow community members ("little authoritarians"). May 17, 2022 at 14:07
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    It is quite relaxing that we can cover ourselfs behind "assume good faith" and don't have to answer why one complains about the close voter and says "they didn't spent enough time" while on the other hand the asker didn't spent time to look for dupes themself.
    – Tom
    May 17, 2022 at 14:19
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    @Rounin-StandingwithUkraine Please explain then what kind of question do you envision being tagged with permission in the future? What does this tag represent?
    – Dharman Mod
    May 17, 2022 at 14:48
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    It takes 3 votes to close a question, @Rounin-StandingwithUkraine, unless the closure happens to be by a gold badge holder (at which point they provided 100 (sic) non-wiki valued answers precisely in the tag), if that's not collaboration, I do not know what is. It takes the same number of users to reopen - if that's not about consensus, I do not know what is. You being able to freely rant on Meta about duplicate closures while insulting other members is, too, very in the spirit of being community-orientated. What is not is expecting your position to be the only valid one. May 17, 2022 at 14:53
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    I would rather see it as 100 people that agree on a single thing and 1 person that disagrees. Just look at all the different opinions you received on this and previous meta post. Take a look at the voting: as of now it's 17 people with a different opinion than yours.
    – Dharman Mod
    May 17, 2022 at 15:00
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    @PeterMortensen, sorry, yes, a clarification is due. When I use the term duping I am referring to the SO practice of shutting down a question by associating it with another question.
    – Rounin
    May 17, 2022 at 15:05
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    Why would a binary question have more than 2 positions? It is a matter of it should versus it should not. You argue consensus, yet you want your position to be the only one that matters. May 17, 2022 at 15:10
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    Not to mention the argument of "silent majority" being a fallacy in the first place. In addition, the question "would you like to be in control whether your post is closed as a duplicate" is a leading question. Of course question askers would want solutions spoon-fed to them on a silver platter with no regard to long-term value of the knowledge repository. It's precisely what made forums of old to fail where SO stands tall. May 17, 2022 at 15:15
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    Stack Overflow is not a forum, it's a Q&A site.
    – Dharman Mod
    May 17, 2022 at 15:26
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    It isn't efficient precisely due to community members thinking they are on a forum. Churning answers to mega-duplicates when they need to close. Not closing off-topic questions. Not downvoting and not voting to delete garbage. Why do you think canonical questions become bloated and outdated? Because instead of careful curation of those users choose to go answer another mega-dupe instead. Why search results get diluted? Same thing - not enough closure happens. Expectations of askers are not set correctly. What we are trying to tell you is that your proposal will only make it worse. May 17, 2022 at 15:28
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    @Rounin-StandingwithUkraine Well there is an issue between three groups, actually. SO/SE as the company, the users who try to maintain this site and (new) users using this site who might not fully understand the purpose of the site. That latter group wants their questions answered, the maintainers want to build a repository of good questions and their answers and the company "says" it wants the repository as well, but fails at telling that the (new) users so they still have that misconception. So the company "elected their users", but failed to tell that everybody.
    – Tom
    May 17, 2022 at 15:45
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    @Rounin-StandingwithUkraine I'm, 2), 4), and 5), and understand that there is a group of users who want to pursue their own priorities within the existing system and get frustrated when the system stands in their way. That's unfortunate, because I (we?) do want the contributions of such users, we simply also want the site to remain useful for everyone, especially the majority who don't even have an account yet. There's plenty of other posts that need answering.
    – Kevin B
    May 17, 2022 at 16:23

2 Answers 2

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This proposal is already implemented and has existed for a very long time. Whenever someone suggests a potential duplicate a comment is made for others to see, but the author sees a popup asking them to confirm the closure.

The system also gives power to singlehandedly close a question as a duplicate to users who have proved themselves to be extremely knowledgeable in the given technology. We trust that they can quickly find the appropriate answer already existing on Stack Overflow. The question from yesterday got closed singlehandlely by a gold-badge holder.


There are some misconceptions in your proposal.

I think it's important to understand that some people (I'm sure I'm not the only one) see duping as a specific kind of vandalism which renders a post un-answerable and un-commentable.

The goal is to prevent answers. Duplicate closure does not prevent comments. It doesn't vandalize the content in any way. The post is still visible on the site in the same state as before. We just don't want people to post new answers somewhere else if we already have answers available for this topic. If a new answer is needed, it can be added to the duplicate target. This way people searching for an answer don't have to open hundreds of questions with alternative solutions. They can find all solutions in a single place.

The bottom line from all of this (which is afforded so little respect back here in SO Meta, although is more widely observed out there on SO proper) is that the post is the OP's post.

It's not! By posting on Stack Overflow you are giving Stack Overflow the permission to publish it for as long as it pleases. You remain the owner of the content, which means you can republish it somewhere else too. However, the content you shared here belongs to the site and can be closed, edited and deleted by other community members.

Duplicate closure should be viewed the same way as posting answers. Someone read your question, found the solution and provided you with a link to that solution. It's done in the best interest of the site but also in the interest of the asker.

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it's important to understand that some people ... see duping as a specific kind of vandalism

We perfectly understand that some see the process of duplicate closure as vandalism. We also understand that it is not vandalism, and those who think that it is have a grave misconception of what duplicate closure is about.

is obliged to ask the OP

The author of the question is the least qualified person to determine whether something is a duplicate or not. They come from the inherent position of lack of knowledge (with the exception of self-answered questions).

We have enough users asking blatant mega-duplicate questions and arguing their questions are not duplicates because their specific circumstance is slightly different than that of a duplicate target (while ignoring the fact that duplicates are determined by the applicability of answers).

A simple analogy is in order (although I have to note that duplicate closure is not a punishment): what you are proposing is quite similar to proposing that court judgements should be accepted by the ones they apply to before taking effect. If you do not see how ridiculous that sounds, I am not sure what else to say.

it's not anyone else's to set fire to, stamp on, destroy

Can't agree more, however, duplicate closure doesn't fall under any of the categories you listed.

the post is the OP's post

It is not. All questions and answers are contributions to the knowledge base licensed under the terms of the CC-BY-SA license. However, question authors still retain some level of control over their contributions precisely to mitigate abuse.

If one believes the post was closed incorrectly, they can always vote to reopen as per the established process, edit the post to differentiate the difference, or ask about it here on Meta. I fail to see how any of these options are insufficient.

who spend their time actually contributing questions and answers

You make it sound like the only legitimate way of contributing to a knowledge base is asking and answering. Hate to break it, but it is not. In fact, at the scale of Stack Overflow these days, it can be outright detrimental to the goal of building a useful library of knowledge.

Duplication dilutes the value of the repository by making it harder for future visitors to find answers to their questions. Duplicate closure exists to battle that by tying related threads (Q&A pairs) together, directing users to canonical sources.

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    In some countries, there are juries or courts made up of multiple judges. In a similar manner, other community members are judges of the content you post here.
    – Dharman Mod
    May 17, 2022 at 14:57
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    @Rounin-StandingwithUkraine Ok, then let me ask you. What is your expectation from other community members on Stack Overflow?
    – Dharman Mod
    May 17, 2022 at 15:03
  • I am not comparing anything, @Rounin-StandingwithUkraine. It's an analogy with the core being not about judges, but about who is qualified to make decisions. In case of SO, it is the community at large. Agan, asker is the least qualified person to pass judgement on what is a duplicate. May 17, 2022 at 15:08
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    That just sounds like you want people to post whatever they want and the rest to sit and watch. How do you think this will reflect on the quality of contributions to the site? Remember that Stack Overflow is not a help desk or a consulting agency. This is a repository of knowledge akin to Wikipedia.
    – Dharman Mod
    May 17, 2022 at 15:12
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    @Rounin - Standing with Ukraine: There is certainly a huge demand for the learning part, but it is often at odds with the stated goal of Stack Overflow. It ought to be expressed in changes or additions to the design of the software (e.g., site mechanics). And possibly a whole new "place". May 17, 2022 at 15:13
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    No one argues that the OP is not the best person to understand what they are asking, @Rounin-StandingwithUkraine. Duplicate closure does not happen because of the question, it happens based on answers. And this is what question asker inherently lacks - knowledge about the solution. May 17, 2022 at 15:18

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