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This mostly relates to how some users blatantly break rules, as in posting a question and expecting the whole code to be given to them (usually a rep 1 user and others who want their homework solved.

If certain other users, who wish to help others (so pretty much the whole community), are a bit fed up and give a rash/funny response, how frowned upon is that, if that "rash response" is fully in accordance with the rules of SO?

Examples being commenting are "Google it" or "Good luck with that task" and stuff like that. I learned the hard way that asking a question on here is a privilege and not a right. And it should be used as a last resort.

I would like to hear thoughts as to the limits of assisting someone, and what is classed as a bare minimum attempt when a user wants help, and when they are just begging for a solution.

Of course, some users are so starved for reputation that they will answer those extremely poor question in order to get some reputation. The same question: What kind of attitude is accepted for such (although not an offence) but still bad practice?

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    Chances are comments like that will either be flagged as no longer needed or unfriendly/unkind and removed. They're unhelpful noise, the better choice would just be to step back and do something else. May 17, 2022 at 12:44
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    See the Code of Conduct. In general if there's nothing useful (and polite) to say and you feel the post is not great, your options are: downvote, flag, close, delete. May 17, 2022 at 12:45
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    "what is classes" - actually, there is no such limit. Closure just for being homework is blatantly incorrect. Fortunately, moat of the time homework dumps suffer from other issues constituting valid close reasons. May 17, 2022 at 12:54
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    "If certain other users who wish to help other (so pretty much the whole community)" - wrong. The goal of the site is to build a repository of knowledge, there are plenty of people here who do not fall into the "helping out" trap but really use the site as intended. Answer good questions, expand the repository. If the author of the question is helped that is a happy side effect but the goal is the greater good - everyone else that has the same question but hopefully won't have to ask it again because the answer already exists.
    – Gimby
    May 17, 2022 at 12:56
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    There are, in my opinion, better ways to phrase such a comment like "Google it". Such questions that make you want to comment "Google it" likely have no evidence of research, but that doesn't means you can assume that they didn't research. I, personally, have found myself leaving loaded comments like "There's a lot of information on this topic already in articles, documentation and questions. When you used your favourite Search Engine to find these, what about them didn't you understand? We can try to explain further or elaborate for you them." Maybe then they actually search.
    – Thom A
    May 17, 2022 at 13:04
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    @Larnu hopefully, but then some user answers that poor, no research, low quality question, bc they are rep starved. So it seems like a waste and a loop in the website policy. May 17, 2022 at 13:13
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    I don't see how either of the example comments are "following rules of the website". There is no need for showing a "bare minimum attempt" by the asker, and snide remarks such as "Google it" or "Good luck with that task" are at best not helpful to anyone. Remember that the CoC is also part of the rules. May 17, 2022 at 13:17
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    "but then some user answers that poor, no research, low quality question, bc they are rep starved" That is a separate problem, @JosipJuros . Though I would suggest such users aren't "rep starved"; my personal experience is that it is quite the opposite.
    – Thom A
    May 17, 2022 at 13:17
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    Re "...quite the opposite.": Yes, look no further than the Pandas tag. Those users know who they are. May 17, 2022 at 13:21
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    @JosipJuros "There 100% is a need to show some minimal attempt at a code." only if it's a debugging problem. Not if it's not debugging related code might not be needed. The very page you linked to explains it clearly: "Not all questions benefit from including code, but if your problem is with code you've written, you should include some."
    – VLAZ
    May 17, 2022 at 13:23
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    Indeed, curators and helpers are generally held to a much higher standard than the unending flood of "new contributors" and their often lazy/rude questions. Still doesn't mean you should be rude back though.
    – Snow
    May 17, 2022 at 13:24
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    There's no such thing as "deserve help", @JosipJuros. But in the context of SO it is not because we are benevolent, just because it is orthogonal to our primary goal of building a knowledge repository. If a question is off-topic for defined reasons, close it. If it is unhelpful, downvote it. Most of our prominent and highly valued Q&As are extremely basic and would be commented away with "RTFM" if we allowed it. TL;DR: closure and effort correlate, but lack of the latter should not causate the former. May 17, 2022 at 13:29
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    "That goes against the site rules bc the question is poorly asked." it's not against the rules, it's against the guidelines; different things. A poorly researched question isn't a reason to VTC, it's a reason to downvote.
    – Thom A
    May 17, 2022 at 13:29
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    Thank you all the explanations, I think I have a better grasp of how things work now. Much appreciated. May 17, 2022 at 13:30
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    @JosipJuros "Do people who dont show a sliver of research done or any bare attempt at a code deserve help or to be given knowledge?" Very much yes. Questions are not there just for the asker. We want questions to be applicable to many people. Getting hung up on the myriad of ways people could fail to solve or research a task is often detrimental to that. The best canonicals are just a concise problem statement devoid of failed attempts, research and other noise – that is perfectly fine for "real" questions as well. May 17, 2022 at 13:38

2 Answers 2

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It is still unclear to me what is the main problem that you wish to expose here, but let's go piece by piece.

This mostly relates to how some users blatantly break rules, as in posting a question and expecting the whole code to be given to them (usually a rep 1 user and others who want their homework solved.

That is not considered rule breaking. While there is some precedence on Meta which calls out the behavior of asking questions of that sort as inappropriate (sometimes even claimed to be downright rude), this attitude by itself is not considered a code of conduct violation. It only becomes a problem if the user makes it a pattern of making low quality questions while dismissing warnings to take better consideration for the platform. More often than not, such users only end up with a question ban, although in rare cases a suspension may be issued.

It may happen that sometimes people will erroneously point towards the code of conduct on a low quality question. In that case they were better off pointing at How to Ask.

If certain other users, who wish to help others (so pretty much the whole community), are a bit fed up and give a rash/funny response, how frowned upon is that, if that "rash response" is fully in accordance with the rules of SO?

This is utterly incoherent. The code of conduct explicitly expects you to be patient and kind when giving and receiving feedback. If you cannot be patient and kind in your comments, you are better off not leaving any comments in the first place.

Granted, some comments will end up being more or less blunt and to the point than others. Each person has their own way with words. But ultimately, an international communication ground needs to set common ground, and this site favors less noise (with less chances of offending someone) over more communication (with greater chances of offending someone).

Examples being commenting are "Google it" or "Good luck with that task" and stuff like that. I learned the hard way that asking a question on here is a privilege and not a right. And it should be used as a last resort.

"Google it" and "Good luck with that task" are not constructive. You should not post them, and any comment of this sort that you find should be flagged for removal. Note that there are even automatic mechanisms in place to prevent people from posting lmgtfw links, for the same reason. The platform intends to be the host of the content, not the place that tells visitors to Google, nor a source of links which may die with time.

I would like to hear thoughts as to the limits of assisting someone, and what is classed as a bare minimum attempt when a user wants help, and when they are just begging for a solution.

Any assessment of whether to answer a question must not be based on the author of the post, but on the overall quality of the question itself. And that is a direct consequence of the effort laid on the question. Remember that questions and answers are not just for you or the asker. They ought to be a useful resource for future visitors, so any consideration of merit to the asker is not applicable.

Of course, some users are so starved for reputation that they will answer those extremely poor question in order to get some reputation.

That is not very accurate. There are multiple other reasons for answering low quality questions which do not amount to reputation. There are users of the site with very large amounts of reputation who continue to prefer answering questions instead of identifying suitable duplicate targets.

In any case, as also explained in the question linked above, the course of action is still to evaluate the answer in that context. If you find that such an answer is not useful, please downvote! Note how we don't have to make this about the askers nor the answerers.

The same question: What kind of attitude is accepted for such (although not an offence) but still bad practice?

No poor attitude is acceptable. The site's policies make no exceptions to poor conduct.


Moreover, if you believe that the code of conduct hinders moderations, and that being harsher to our users, berating and shaming them for posting low quality content is the way to combat the incoming flood of crap, that says more about you than it says about the condition of the site. Don't be that person.

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    No poor attitude is acceptable Yet, many come here with an attitude that I, at least, would consider extremely poor, but that contributors are told to tolerate - the attitude of "Why should I bother doing my homework myself or making any attempt at debugging the code when I can just get Stack Overflow to do it all for me?" This sort of attitude comprises a substantial proportion of questions, from what I've seen, and wouldn't be considered acceptable in many educational or professional contexts.
    – Snow
    May 17, 2022 at 16:15
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    @Snow "but that contributors are told to tolerate" Contributors are told to moderate the content accordingly (close vote, downvote, etc.). The flood of crap is a real problem, but not one which justifies being rude. If someone is unable to communicate the issues with such behavior without going down to an unprofessional level, they are better off not be in charge of educating such users. In the worst case, we just let the site mechanisms stop the damage.
    – E net4
    May 17, 2022 at 17:06
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    But are the mechanisms stopping dmg? Since the flood doesn't stop does that mean the mechanics and well the knowledge repository doesn't work? May 17, 2022 at 21:34
  • The mechanisms do work, @JosipJuros. We'd be worse off without them. I sure hope you are not hinting towards employing actual hostile and gatekeeping approaches to moderation based on the assumption that the platform is not faring well as a knowledge repository. The curator base has already been poorly accused of that, and the last thing I'd want for the platform is for such voices to actually be right.
    – E net4
    May 18, 2022 at 8:00
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    @E_net4 But all these things the mechanisms are meant to stop are still coming. They don't address the cause only fix the damage when tis been done, that's what I mean. The mechanics work in terms of fixing the dmg, but the dmg is being done, the flood is still happening to use it as an example. May 18, 2022 at 10:50
  • @JosipJuros At this point I would only be repeating myself. I seriously don't understand where you are going with this, and your comments further reinforce the idea that this meta question has severe issues.
    – E net4
    May 18, 2022 at 10:55
  • @E_net4 Its simple isnt the point of the mechanisms to improve the situation?? To reduce the for example flood of new and inexperienced users? Is that not the point ? May 18, 2022 at 10:57
  • If that was the original point, then you would have phrased the question to ask precisely that. Instead, you asked "What kind of attitude is accepted for such (although not an offence) but still bad practice?".
    – E net4
    May 18, 2022 at 11:02
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    @E_net4 if the polite way doesnt work what else is there? Not doing anything and let the flood in? Its phrased ok, you just all think being polite is fine and will work when it clearly doesnt. May 18, 2022 at 11:07
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    @JosipJuros As long as the terrible questions are permitted to be posted and answered, they'll continue regardless of our "attitude", just like water will flow downhill regardless. Best to stay professional even if others aren't, because stooping to their level won't accomplish anything anyway. With regard to what sorts of things get posted, I think what the rules are matters more than one's personal attitude.
    – Snow
    May 18, 2022 at 15:12
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This question was asked as a combination of three things that I have seen on this website, and it caused a wave of confusion which hit me and I didn't understand how to deal with it.

  • The wave of new users who post low quality questions ("unending flood of "new contributors" and their often lazy/rude questions."1 @Snow
  • My own actions on which I was called out for doing incorrectly (asking question primarily)
  • And one user posted a question on Meta how he felt bad because he answered a duplicate question and was well lost because of this action

Those three things must've caused me a lot of conflicts in my head, hence why I made this question.

Thank you once again to everyone in the comments for explaining and presenting a better opinion than those I myself hold.

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