-9

I understand questions are closed as dupes if the community feels that a similar question has been addressed in another question, but, I find myself discombobulated regarding a recent post deletion which I provided an answer for.

Usually, I would not mind such an event and would move on, but, I find this one weird and would appreciate comments as to why it was a valid closure/deletion.

The post in question would be; https://stackoverflow.com/questions/71815421/what-is-the-correct-way-to-replace-newlines-when-using-bash

(photo for < 10k+ users):

enter image description here

Granted, the question was a little messy, but, the OP provided what they had tried that did not work, a testable sample and the question was understandable, as such, I provided an answer.

The question was later closed as a duplicate. Upon visiting the dupe and testing all the solutions provided, it did not address the question that was closed as a duplicate. I raised this with the user in the comment section. They then proceeded to provide another link as a potential duplicate source which once again failed to address a very small part of the request.

By this point I had given up as it seemed the user that closed it may continue to find similar posts that did not actually address the problem and left it closed as a duplicate.

But, today, it has been deleted. I would like to understand why. I can not see a valid reason for it to have been closed as a duplicate let alone for it to have been subsequently deleted.

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  • 11
    Do we really need a different question for every form of replacing content in bash with a regexp? "Here's the regexp you need if you wanted to do every other: Here's the one for every 3rd: here's the one for 2 on 2 off. Here's the one for everything but apples:"
    – Kevin B
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:00
  • 2
    Does the "don't delete posts being discussed on Meta" rule not work in the other direction too? Apr 13, 2022 at 22:04
  • @KevinB If an answer does not already exist for a specific form, then I see no harm in having multiple variations of answers that may not be useful for one individual, but may be useful for another.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:06
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    @IanCampbell well, no, that'd defeat the true reasoning behind the rule... favoring things not being deleted.
    – Kevin B
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:07
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    @IanCampbell No, it doesn't. Technically, there isn't even a rule about not deleting posts under discussion (as the linked post indicates), but there's at least been concrete proposals for that. I'm not aware of any proposals regarding the opposite direction.
    – cigien
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:07
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    @cigien: There are rules about when to delete posts. They're just...kinda buried in a corner of the site and very easily overlooked.
    – Makoto
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:18
  • @Makoto I don't mean there are no rules. I was referring specifically to whether there are rules about a post being discussed on meta being exempt from deletion, or not, as is Ian's comment that I was responding to. The page you linked doesn't refer to meta at all.
    – cigien
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:22
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    They do show what they tried, but all they say about it is "it didn't work" with no further explanation. Apr 13, 2022 at 22:26
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    @EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine So that justifies deleting it?
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:28
  • Are we allowed to vote to undelete while a post is being discussed? Or does that rule only apply to deletion? (Or is there no such rule?) Apr 13, 2022 at 22:45
  • 6
    This post was requested for deletion in SOCVR
    – Scratte
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:57
  • @SotiriosDelimanolis I think the idea of not deleting posts while they are actively discussed here on Meta is that doing so prevents a large number of users (those < 10k rep) from then seeing them. Undeleting such a post, however, does not have such an effect. Apr 14, 2022 at 10:42
  • Deletion is a topic with no consensus, that is pretty much all we can glean from this :) I am all for deletion to keep the yard clean, I've never really been a proponent for deleting as fast as possible, unless the content is damaging. But the site gives people the freedom to cast delete votes so I respect their freedom to use them to clean the yard.
    – Gimby
    Apr 14, 2022 at 12:46
  • @Gimby How about something that even given unlimited time, will never be deleted without user actions? How fast is fast on those cases? Two days? 3? A year?
    – Braiam
    Apr 16, 2022 at 12:51
  • There are related posts (including in the FAQ) on what to do if you believe that your own question was wrongly marked as a duplicate, but I didn't mark this question as a duplicate of those because you're not the OP. I don't think there's official guidance on what to do if you think that someone else's post was wrongly marked as a duplicate (other than to vote to reopen and/or protest it on Meta). Apr 22, 2022 at 13:34

3 Answers 3

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I was the one who brought it up on SOCVR and requested others to review it for possible deletion. 1

My reason for doing that is that the OP never came back to clarify their precise requirement. I repeatedly left comments to request them to provide more details but they never delivered fully.

The fact that the OP accepted your answer complicates the matter, but not in a good way. If their requirement was unclear, this answer is not going to help people who look for help with the question they actually asked. And in the meantime, we have a massive number of existing variations of "how do I remove a multi-line pattern from a text file", many of them using sed with more or less inscrutable solutions which are probably not understandable to beginners or even intermediate sed practitioners without further explanation.

I don't necessarily think the pool of possible signposts for these types of problems is completely saturated already, but I would look for a clear question with a clear and detailed answer, and strive to remove the rest as noise. Part of the problem with finding existing solutions which actually work is that there are so many low-quality duplicates already in these tags.


1 The SOCVR chat room admins move requests to a separate archival room when they are processed or too old, so the link is now to that "graveyard" room.

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  • I'm confused by your last paragraph. "I don't necessarily think the pool of possible signposts for these types of problems is completely saturated already" and "strive to remove the rest as noise" seem to contradict each other. It doesn't matter if the question is low-quality if it can still serve as a signpost. Closing it is good curation; editing it to improve it is a bonus. But why delete it if it can serve a purpose? People who land on it would be able to easily locate the (good-quality) dup-target that they might not be able to find otherwise. No?
    – 41686d6564
    Apr 14, 2022 at 5:08
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    Imagine you are actually searching for how to replace newlines and came across this question. The actual question is about something else and the duplicate you are taken to is thus not helpful. Conversely, if you are actually looking for how to replace a multi-line pattern, you are unlikely to stumble across this one.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 5:12
  • That might be a fair point. Please note that I was talking in general, not about that question specifically, since I'm not really active in those tags. I just wanted to point out that the statements in your last paragraph sound contradictory.
    – 41686d6564
    Apr 14, 2022 at 5:19
  • Regardless of whether or not they responded, they had found some value in the answer and accepted it as well as an individual whom found it useful and upvoted it. Surely, the next thing in ones mind would be to merge if deletion is one of the final options. I have seen many posts which you have closed suddenly vanish with a single or multiple answers, where one has been accepted. I appreciate the job you do for the community but deletion should really be carefully considered especially when there is an answer that has been accepted.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 14, 2022 at 5:34
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    Deletion happens automatically when questions don't have an accepted answer. Perhaps our yardsticks for what might possibly help future visitors are radically different; I encourage you to search for good canonical duplicates for common FAQs if only just to get a better picture of how many absolutely useless questions there are which obscure the actually useful ones.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 5:43
  • Granted, it happens automatically, but in this case, you actively requested it in SOCVR days after you had closed it aware there was an accepted answer. You could have for example changed the title to a more suitable one for the specific issue, me doing so makes little difference as it is totally ignored once the post closer has decided they want to delete.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 14, 2022 at 5:50
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    I do improve posts when I think I understand what the OP is trying to ask, but we also have to be careful not to put words in somebody's mouth. Many a turd could be polished, but it's not clear that you should. Again, the density of existing questions makes it hard to argue that we need more, not less, IMHO.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 5:53
  • Then merge. I still fail to see a valid reason to encourage others to delete it when an answer was present.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 14, 2022 at 6:00
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    You keep harping on the existence of an answer as if it was an important factor. We don't need to manually delete questions which don't have accepted answers much. Perhaps review the SOCVR guidance for when del-pls is acceptable and warranted. Now that the question is undeleted again you are free to propose a merge if you like, but I fail to see the utility of that. These simple "gimme teh codez" questions are tricky when there are multiple answers because then the visitor has to understand what the code does, in which case they would no doubt be able to solve the problem themselves.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 6:05
  • It is an important factor to me. I appreciate all answers individuals have used their spare time to provide. I find value in most answers even if it has been downvoted as there may be a trick hidden within it that I have not explored before. Deletion should not be your immediate go to.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 14, 2022 at 6:16
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    OP asked a question, you provided an answer, it was accepted. OP is happy because (apparently) their problem was solved. You are presumably happy because you were able to help someone, and were also rewarded with some rep. Now why does the question need to continue to exist after this point, given the circumstances repeatedly discussed above? You are unlikely to earn additional rep from future visitors and the question will dilute search results for an unrelated problem.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 6:19
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    Merging is a tricky, irreversible process that requires intervention by a moderator, who must determine that the questions are exactly the same to the point that all answers could be transferred over verbatim. If you believe your answer is suitable on the duplicate target, you could simply repost it there yourself, making any necessary tweaks.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Apr 14, 2022 at 6:24
  • I do not care about the rep, I wanted to understand your reasoning behind deletion. I do not hound people after answering that they should accept my answer as I also personally gain something from providing the answer. The issue here was trying to and still trying to understand the reason behind deleting. You could have just closed it rather than encouraging others to join you in deleting it after the initial closure.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 14, 2022 at 6:59
  • I don't find this discussion productive. I have elaborated on my reasoning repeatedly.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 7:06
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    I'm afraid I'm at loss as to what more I could add or what sort of concretion you are looking for.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 7:17
1

I'm not seeing a rationale for deleting the question either. Seems like it would make a serviceable sign post for someone else looking for ways to replace newlines in specific contexts.

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  • Here "context" is irrelevant. "Replacing strings" is enough. Otherwise there's a dictionary for you to keep asking the exact same question and just varying that single word.
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:16
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    I was considering posting an answer here; however, that would only say much the same as you have said. I'm not sufficiently expert in the field to judge whether or not closure was appropriate, but I really can't see any justification for deletion. Apr 13, 2022 at 22:16
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    @AdrianMole: I'm not going to contest its closure; I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I just don't see anything so radioactive about the post that it has to be deleted.
    – Makoto
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:17
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    "Being radioactive" isn't the condition that prevents a duplicate post from being deleted. That bar is extremely low.
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:18
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    ... if it's a case of "let's delete to 'punish' the answerer," then that is, IMHO, abuse of the delete-vote privilege. Delete votes should be used sparingly and on posts that are harmful. Reasonably phrased duplicates are not harmful; an answer may upset the system (and its curators); but, if so, then it is that answer that should be deleted, not the question. Apr 13, 2022 at 22:19
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    @Braiam: Figuratively speaking, of course. But even still I can't quite justify why this would merit deletion. Maybe you should post a separate answer advocating or justifying why it needed to be deleted.
    – Makoto
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:19
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    ... however, deleting answers is more difficult. Apr 13, 2022 at 22:22
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    @Makoto Well, maybe you should justify why we should keep it instead.
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 23:42
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    @AdrianMole I'm a little bit offended that you seem to think that I have a grudge with the answerer. The question is what I voted to delete because the question is what I think has a problem. Not to the point where I would really call it "harmful" per se in isolation; but the harm I am hoping to counter is the plethora of imprecise and/or low-effort questions about very basic text processing tasks using Unix tools.
    – tripleee
    Apr 14, 2022 at 6:43
  • @Braiam: I said it before - I didn't see anything that would immediately justify its deletion. It's a dupe in a sea of maybe lots of them, but I don't see anything here that tells me that this question has absolutely no value. I could reasonably see someone punching this into Bing or Google or DuckDuckGo looking for an answer to this very problem, and then with them being helped by the dupe. Deletion is not and will not ever be a super-downvote, and this has the smell of the delete voters using it as such.
    – Makoto
    Apr 15, 2022 at 15:56
  • @Makoto that's not enough. Deletion is not an exceptional process, it is the rule. We don't want closed questions hanging around forever. They should either be appropriated to the site or removed. Or do you believe that what the help center said (and was confirmed several times by staff old and new) is undesirable?
    – Braiam
    Apr 16, 2022 at 12:47
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The only exception to deletion is for the post to hold value. The "value" of duplicates being that they offer something unique to the existing content on the site: either they have answers that deserve preservation, and thus merging, or that the question offers keywords that are not contained within the target and make it easier to find. This question is neither.

enter image description here

If the user had at least clicked either of the top two results on most search engines, they would have no problem. (BTW, the Unix and Linux one had the most wacky ways to replace strings in any input possible)

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    The only exception to deletion is for the post to hold value.. 100%, totally wrong. Curators should not "assume guilt" and vote to delete unless there is an exception. We should vote to delete only in cases where a post causes harm. Apr 13, 2022 at 22:35
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    @AdrianMole Care to provide the source of that statement. Preferably by actual staff or at least previous staff. This is the canonical for deletions.
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:37
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    Here! (Read it all!) Apr 13, 2022 at 22:39
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    @AdrianMole "Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be deleted." vs "The only exception to deletion is for the post to hold value." How those two sentences disagree?
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:39
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    @AdrianMole "Before voting to delete, please check whether there are any good answers; if so, then the question should be flagged for moderator attention as a potential merge candidate" vs "either they have answers that deserve preservation, and thus merging" how those two sentences disagree?
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:40
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    But, as ever, you read the bits you like and disregard the rest: We don't like to lose great answers!" and Also, be cautious when deleting questions closed as duplicates;. Apr 13, 2022 at 22:41
  • @AdrianMole "be cautious when deleting questions closed as duplicates; they can serve as a signpost, directing users to useful answers on another question" vs "question offers keywords that are not contained within the target and make it easier to find" How those two sentences disagree?
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:41
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    @AdrianMole what is great about that answer?
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:42
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    It works? Is that not, of itself, a reasonable solution? Apr 13, 2022 at 22:43
  • @AdrianMole Nope. It has to be unique. It's not.
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:44
  • @AdrianMole BTW "I'm not sufficiently expert in the field to judge whether or not closure was appropriate", I am a somewhat expert at the topic, and for me, there's nothing there that screams "I didn't know that".
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 22:46
  • @Braiam It may not be unique per se, but, it is difficult to find an exact dupe that actually deletes the range and addresses the empty lines at the same time in a single pass, which your link also fails to do.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 13, 2022 at 23:03
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    @HatLess come on. It's literally a simple regex that if the user spend any 5 minutes debugging on regex101 (or any online regex), it would have been fine.
    – Braiam
    Apr 13, 2022 at 23:41
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    @Braiam That is a naive response. How do you know the OP's level of knowledge in the topic to know it would take them 5 minutes to figure it out or that they even know that regex101 exists? You are blindly making assumptions.
    – sseLtaH
    Apr 13, 2022 at 23:46
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    "How do you know the OP's level of knowledge in the topic to know it would take them 5 minutes to figure it out or that they even know that regex101 exists?" @HatLess this site is for enthusiast or professional programmers, so yes, I expect them to even if they are neither do due diligence.
    – Braiam
    Apr 16, 2022 at 12:48

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