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The dupe hammer was swung again on this question: How to conditionally add predicate conditions in a LINQ query expression

The original duplicate flag was erroneous. It was based purely on the OP's focus on the join statement in both the title and the content. Anyone who is remotely familiar with LINQ expressions in the real-world should have recognised this common pattern of joining onto a users table to obtain additional audit information. There is no secondary condition to that join, and it is always going to be a simple single column join. If you were unsure then post a comment asking for clarification.

I bet the OP is sitting there really confused how the suggested duplicate was going to help them.

The power of the duplicate hammer is that everyone wants to get on the bandwagon, processing the close review queue for duplicates, but too many people look for key words and make quick decisions, based on an inherent trust of the original wielder of the hammer.

So what happens when they get it wrong? Based on the behaviour of the SO community there is a lot of inherent responsibility to marking a question as a duplicate. Should there be some sort of penalty for wasting both a flag and everyone's time for reviewing that flag?

Duplicates also have a habit of closing questions very quickly (no, I don't have any stats, but you know it to be true ;P ) Can we have a tiered queue for flags where three strikes from lesser beings then filters it into a special queue where only those deemed worth of Mjölnir can strike the final blow?

I'm not saying that the post was great quality. The fact that it started this conversation at all proves it was a low quality post. In fact, after reading the responses from the OP to the comments, it turns out the original question was based on a simple mistaken rookie assumption. Without a serious rewrite, the post should be closed or deleted. To link this as a duplicate is just going to add to the confusion of some of these related concepts. It doesn't help the community; it hinders us.

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  • I realise that I shouldn't care, as explained in this old post meta.stackoverflow.com/q/286239/1690217 but for some reason I do care Jan 28, 2022 at 11:29
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    Dupe hammer is for gold badge holders only, this one was closed by three normal users with close vote privilege, what exactly are you talking about? Jan 28, 2022 at 11:37
  • That terminology is my misunderstanding, I'm suggesting that if 3 normal users get it wrong, then the system is broken and clearly 3 normal users cannot be trusted. Jan 28, 2022 at 11:44
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    Dunno, the system looks to be working pretty well if you ask me. Humans are fallible, and there is due process for getting posts reopened in case of an incorrect closure (if it is one, not an SME) - I highly doubt that it will not get reopened if the closure was wrong. Jan 28, 2022 at 11:48
  • Its just frustrating you see this in a tag domain that you feel overly experienced in, this is not a mistake that should be so easily made. Jan 28, 2022 at 11:50
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    You can vote to reopen it. What's the problem?
    – Dharman Mod
    Jan 28, 2022 at 11:54
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    Well, it's not exactly hard to get 3 people to VTC or VTR for that matter. I'd suggest posting a [reopen-pls] in SOCVR (if you wanted to expedite matters), but, unfortunately, you are involved with the post, which would be against the room's rules. You've already cast your reopen vote, is it really that big of a problem if it sits in the queue for a little while? It's kind of at the base of community governance - if 3 people got it wrong, 3 others can set things right. Jan 28, 2022 at 11:57
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    I started this post before taking the time consuming actions on the original one to try and salvage it. I guess the system does work, it's just really slow, I guess what I'd like to see is some kind of notification when a post I've votes on is re-opened, then I know to come back and provide an answer. In this case I just happened to have already started an answer. I haven't been introduced to SOCVR yet... so I'll keep that in mind for next time... perhaps the system does work, I just don't know how to make it work. Jan 28, 2022 at 12:00
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    Eh, blame the system for that - I can't argue with it being a bit too slow :) SE relies too much on off-loading curation work on volunteers and does too little to help resolve the bottlenecks that arise due to basically relying on free manual labor to solve complex problems. Jan 28, 2022 at 12:07
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    Speaking of notifications, btw, you can try following the posts you voted on - if you do, you get notifications on both closure and reopen, pretty useful (although that means you also get notified of every state - comments, answers, edits... Would be nice to have a way of choosing the exact types of actions to follow the post for, but alas) Jan 28, 2022 at 12:10
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    We are a community of developers right? If it were open sourced then we could genuinely contribute and help solve the problems. Some of those queues are too daunting to even bother with. As volunteers we don't feel valued, so we start to contribute less when all we are good for is manual labor. I think what I really want is for the closers to be autonotified, I know I can set a notification for me, but i don't actually care about this post, I just want them to learn from their mistakes. Thanks @OlegValter you're really put things into perspective for me. I shall diminish and go into the west Jan 28, 2022 at 12:15
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    @ChrisSchaller yeah, going open source would be great... Unlikely to happen any time soon, though, given that we are still at the stage where the company tries to relearn the value of user feedback and involving power users in the decision-making process. Speaking of auto-notifications, it does seem like a good idea, I bet there is even a feature request somewhere out there on Meta, but it is really hard to get the company on board with any idea that originates from the community, it kind of operates in a top-down manner (even if the communication has improved slightly recently). Jan 28, 2022 at 12:25
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    If you penalise people for closing dupes, why would anyone continue doing so? There is no reward for doing it correctly.
    – khelwood
    Jan 28, 2022 at 13:49
  • What about a penalty for posting a dupe that is in tbe FAQ.....oh, I forgot, there is no penalty possible for 1-rep 'you search, I can't be bothered' accounts:( Jan 28, 2022 at 18:04

2 Answers 2

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(Letting aside the bad premise of this being a problem with gold badge holders.)

The system is broken, but not because of that.

  1. we don't have enough curators for the ingestion rate of questions;
  2. duplicate finding is stupidly hard.

Even blatantly incorrect closures can be reverted with reopen votes, so it's not like there was any permanent damage. Rather than somehow blaming the curator base for investing some effort and proposing to apply even more restraints or punishments to those who choose to help, we need better tools for finding good questions to link to.

I'm not saying that the post was great quality, the fact that it started this conversation at all proves it was a low quality post

Then it seems like closure isn't that much of a serious problem. At least not more serious than the two problems described above.

We need to put things in perspective before proposing drastic measures.

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    Thanks for clarification, especially from Oleg, I guess the additional issue is that members like me don't always know where to look for guidance, I want to help and be part of the solution but after getting frustrated by not knowing the expected process, I come here to vent. I know it will get shut down, but its posts like yours that help me learn what the right course of action is. Jan 28, 2022 at 12:06
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    Can't blame ya, the processes aren't exactly clear and are not very well designed to begin with (well, they were well-designed, but they did not scale well to the current size of SO). P.s. Nothing wrong in venting off on Meta as long as you approach others respectfully (which you did, but many others don't) Jan 28, 2022 at 12:15
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    i have al list in my brwoser of good and canonical dupe closures for "my tag", most of them are also linked in the tag description, so if you find one, there would be a good place to write and find good dupes
    – nbk
    Jan 28, 2022 at 14:02
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As indicated in the comments, this question was closed by 3 community members, not by a gold badge holder.

Also, you admit in your question that it's a very low quality post, so ultimately why obsess about whether it was closed for the "wrong" reason (unless you really think that we should be keeping very low quality content around)?

I also strongly disagree agree with there being any penalty for "wrong" closure of a question, nor do I think that duplicates should get special treatment compared to other closure reasons. It's really not possible to objectively define what kind of "wrong" closing behavior is grounds for punishment; while the closure seems wrong to you, evidently at least 3 other community members disagreed, so it's apparently not all that obvious to them that it's wrong. Who's to say that you're right and they're wrong? In fact, by your logic, why not punish you for incorrectly not closing?

Furthermore, the threshold for closure used to be higher (as you seem to be suggesting), but it didn't work very well. There are simply too few reviewers compared to the amount of curation that needs to happen. The last thing we want is to punish people who are trying to keep the site clean, even if they occasionally get it wrong.

If you disagree with the closure, there are already multiple possible avenues of appeal, including simply voting to reopen and posting on Meta.

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  • Posting on Meta is what I thought I was doing ;) I get it. But the scenario really rubs me the wrong way. OP will be confused how the dup applies to them because the context, explanation and outcome is entirely different, its not even remotely a dup. As someone qualified to make that judgement call on this specific content it's frustrating to see this happen, if this post later shows up as an Audit review then we're only reinforcing incorrect judgement, that is where I start to see the larger problem. I have since done what I can to salvage the situation and OP has a resolution, so I'm happy Jan 29, 2022 at 8:43

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